Thanks for the feedback. I think I am going to give the starposts a try this weekend. This pin was mainly purchased for my kids (who am i to deny their request for another pin, lol) but gotta admit I am having a blast playing it. Very clever/fun layout for a 90's bally/Williams game.

I get all my t-molding from t-molding.com they have multiple sizes of chrome.. I tried copying a link but won't let me paste.

Does anyone have an extra back trough ball keeper clear plastic I can buy? Mine is missing. I can probably adapt some type of clear plastic, but never hurts to ask. Still searching on the internet.
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The hidden area at the back of the playfield was very dirty, no trough shield, missing screws, ball popper missing the cap, wrong light bulbs.
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Man this game is depressingly derelict the more I dig in. But I did find another lost pinball stuck back there.

If you cant find one I can laser cut you one if you can give me the dimensions (And locations/size of the holes). Mine is missing it as well but I already have mine back together.

Your VUK is missing the ball "cup"; or did you remove it earlier?

Yes, the ball popper cup is gone, I did not remove it. Just another piece on the long list of missing items I am discovering as I get in deeper. Luckily, I can still buy some pieces.

Question: how do you know when the broadside is lit? (other than the audio queues) I had assumed it was the large rectangle target right in front of the Broadside VUK but that doesnt seem to be the case.

You mean, for an award? All the lights on the mast will be flashing in sequence. For the hurry up I don't think there's any light

Yea for an award. that makes sense. thanks!

Latest tear down finds:
Whomever was in here last really did not like to tighten stuff down. This whole corner area was wobbly:
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Debris left behind, chunk of unknown plastic and glob of silicone around light:
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Flasher bulbs go in black sockets, not standard 555 lamps. Have not found a single 906 flasher on the playfield yet, all are exploded black 555's:
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And the fun continues!!

Small victory today in Black Rose repairs. I was able to modify a right slingshot plastic clear protector and make the ball keeper for the rear trough. I think it turned out excellent!
Before, ball keeper is missing, pinballs can exit over the top:
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Clear slingshot protector plastic from right slingshot is an easy modification. Thru careless, over zealous parts ordering, I have 2 set of protectors. Good Thing!
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this is what the factory original Bally part looks like:
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I took my time and adjusted, aligned, marked, cut, filed and polished the clear plastic. Used 8-32 by 1/2" bolts, washers, and nyloc nuts to prevent further cracking of the white rear trough:
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Even the wife said it looks great:
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New parts orders are starting to arrive, reassembly of upper playfield begins Monday.

reassembly started, the back trough area is now clean, polished, fasteners tightened, with LED lamps, some wire cleanup:
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I put a really good polish on the underside of the stainless steel bracket, so when the two led flashers light, it is going to be bright.

Back box pivot bolts, top is what someone installed in the past, bottom are correct and now installed:
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The whirlpool ramp is in good condition, thank goodness that Bally put the entrance protectors on the sides. Mine have been hammered to slightly concave on both sides, there are cracks around the rivet holes but no chunks missing:
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Work continues.......

Finally reached the last corner of the playfield surface, everything was dirty and loose as I have come to expect. I usually work from the bottom to top, easy to hard.
Before pics:
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Cleaned up well, new led lights, rubbers, polished, etc.:
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Still working on the plastic ramps and waiting for some more parts to finish the topside, then will start on the underside.
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Found out why I only have sound in one speaker, upper right tweeter has a broken wire and the lower cabinet speaker looks like this:
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previous person went to the trouble of putting paper towels under the speaker. I have to just shake my head sometimes.
$22 replacement on order.

Not sure why someone needed to solder in this piece of white wire on the upper backbox speaker, I removed it.
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Cleaned the entire metal speaker panel, man was it a black dusty mess. And underneath the black dust was the all present cigarette smoke residue and stench.
100_6829 (resized).JPG Gone now.
Another major victory with the playfield GI lights. When I first turned on the game 2 weeks ago, there were ZERO GI lamps lit, not a single one. Only the back box lights were on and I started assuming the worst. After completing the playfield topside today, I turned the game on. Every GI led lamp on the playfield lights up and dims when running the GI tests! This poor game must have sat for a long time turned on without even any thought of maintenance

Hello again, I don't mean to highjack the Black Rose club, but I am finding sooooo much wrong with my newly acquired game that might help others in the future.
Latest batch of carnage onboard the Black Rose:
The common broken coil wire from poor soldering and light board header pins all cracked, could actually move all pins at once. Both easy fixes:
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Left slingshot linkage, some creative repairs using cotter pins, did not last. Have to order the correct parts:
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Pirates cove 2 ball capture area, someone put in a kicker arm that works, but obstructed the 2nd ball lock switch arm from moving:
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Repositioned the base plate and now the switch wire can move when ball two sits on it:
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And don't forget the extra spring under the screw head, looks like it used to go to the flipper arm:
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Taking a break after 4 hours today, my eyes are tired.....

not hijacking at all, fun to see your progress!!

All LED lamps installed under the playfield, and GI, looks great. Reassembled the coin door coin acceptor chutes, buttons, etc., works great and looks good. Installed the new cabinet bottom speaker, 10uf capacitor on the tweeter, and checked the wiring, but sound is still crappy. The sound board will be inspected soon after I get all the playfield mechanisms and 3 flippers rebuilt. No other extra problems discovered today, that is a small victory!!

another day, another update..
Pulled out the ball popper VUK for rebuild, new speaker magnet makes a great holder. Yes, the control wire was not connected:
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On the bench, rebuild kit from PinballLife, about $18. Kit is listed as a Data East product, but parts were 100% correct, sleeve not included in kit, but I have those in stock:
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All done, needed wife's extra hands to hold everything steady while I tapped the roll pin thru the cup and plunger. I was gentle and it came out excellent. Note the two alignment bumps on the left side of the mounting bracket. These mate with alignment holes under the playfield to keep the ball cup centered correctly:
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Had to make a small leaf switch adjustment under the ball cup, all good now.

Felling frisky today, so I took out the upper right flipper, another free floating wire, this time not connected to the EOS switch. I don't claim to be the world's best wire solderer, but I always tug on the wire after I finish just to be sure.
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Someone was into the flippers before, they installed new bats, plunger links, and end stops. Might put them in the spare parts box:
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Dismantled, nothing amiss, just dirty and corroded:
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Cleaned and into the paint booth, I'm too cheap to spend $14 on a new base plate unless the thread holes are goofed up:
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reassembly tomorrow and start on the lower flippers.
Might play a game this weekend!!

I haven't had time. But I'd like to say I'm enjoying your BR restoration.
This poor machine. What the hell kind of previous life did it have? So miss fixed!
Looking good so far.

It really is a sad game in person, probably the most abused game I have worked on in 30 years. Probably over 100 flaws so far, big and small. What little attention it did receive was kind of off target. Someone tried, but was either in a hurry or less experienced, perhaps both. I am glad that it was forgotten for many years, the playfield has cleaned up nicely with only minor ball tracks embedded. I try to leave everything I touch in much better, original condition. Lots more to come....

Ahoy! I have been hornswaggled by that dark haired sea skank who calls herself the Black Rose!! After all the hours and money I lavished on her highness, I was cast aside like a used napkin. I finished up all 3 flipper rebuilds and decided to kick the ball around the playfield and make some tests. All went well for a few seconds until I shot the ball into the back trough and she yelled loudly "WALK THE PLANK YOU BILGE RAT!" Next thing I know I'm sucking sea water, and was promptly eaten by a shark. That's some gratitude for you! Actually it was fun enough, I just have sooo much more to work on....
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I love cleaning up games this filthy.
Based on how dirty it is I'd also take apart all the mechs, clean, verify all the correct hardware is in place and redo the coil sleeves.

That is absolutely what I am doing, slow going!

Ahoy again shipmates. Hold onto your caps, I have removed the cannon assembly for reconditioning. Someone was obviously in here before, but based on everything I have found so far, I can't trust that anything was done properly. Comes off of the playfield very easily, several wood screws and two wire connectors:
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you can see why the two flippers base plates only have 3 mounting feet, a standard 4 footed plate would interfere with the cannon mounting ring:
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The two flasher lamp wires are in the same wire connector with the cannon coil, you must unscrew the flasher sockets also. Someone deleted my switch wire connector and just twisted and taped them. sigh:
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Everything comes apart easily, I took lots of pictures. Cannon assembly is mounted with four nylock nuts:
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Three metal plates make a "sandwich" around the bottom mounting plate. Small plate is captive in the middle and acts like a bushing to keep things centered yet able to rotate. This is all metal to metal contact, so I will clean and polish everything that touches and probably use a teflon type lubricant inside:
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The plastic cannon body and metal base plate with machinery decal look ok and will not need any work:
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The 3 adjuster posts each have a threaded collar that is moved up or down slightly to level the cannon top plastic with the playfield surface. Each collar has a groove which accepts the metal cannon floor plate, and two socket head cap screw to clamp the collar tightly after adjustments are done. Note my 3 collars are missing the 6 clamp screws. Everything cleaned up nicely:
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Where the 3 adjuster posts attach to the plastic mounting ring, there are metal clips which surround and reinforce the plastic and square top of the post:
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Gear box has an open end, easy to inspect, clean, and relubricate:
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Not sure what happened here, but a 4 inch arc of the plastic mounting ring was actually "melted" to the underside of the playfield. Looks like some type of chemical for sure, but why?
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lots of cleaning, painting and polishing still ahead....

The really "fun" part comes when putting the cannon back again; leveling it with the playfield is a pain in the ass.

Wish they had used 4 mounting/adjusting legs instead of 3. As of now it's easy to get 2 of 3 correct, then when adjusting the 3rd you will be misaligned with one of the other two, repeat this cycle forever.

If someone have come up with a reliable way to do this then please tell.

Hi all! Just figured I'd share my Comet LED set up since I'm digging the fire bulbs in the cannon and behind the back ramp. I added some notes in the video's description field:

Also, has anyone installed a Pinshakers shaker motor kit? The only thing holding me back is that they have Harness C / J130 01 shown as "Not Connected" instead of "Ball Popper" which is a showstopper since I'd definitely want the return cannon fire to have a shaker effect. I sent a message to them about it but haven't heard back. Not sure if it's possible or not, but since this kit gives you a fine level of control over the motor for each trigger, I thought it would be cool to have a slight rumbling going on as the cannon is spinning and then "boom!" when you fire.

As I sail on towards the end of my BR repairs, I encountered another unexpected situation, but good this time. I removed all 5 electronic boards from the back box, and to my pleasant surprise, they were all 100% original from Sept 1992, non-hacked, not one single cracked solder joint, appear to be no replaced components, and every fuse was correct! Only the funky remote battery holder mod on the processor board was nonstock. But even that kept any battery damage off of the cpu board. I got the feeling I was the first person to ever remove anything. After a thorough cleaning of the back box and boards, I replaced the usual capacitors on the audio board, installed L4 rom and coin battery board on the cpu. There was a lot of brown/black cigarette smoke and electronic dust everywhere, but I was able to remove nearly all of it. Cleaning and redressing the cable bundles was the worst. I guess my fat old fingers are starting to show their age.
Before:
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After:
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Processor board as found:
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Processor board as installed, clean, new rom, coin battery board:
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Game boots right up into attract mode, no errors, adjusted settings to my likings, sounds might be a bit better, hard to tell with half deaf ears. Just awaiting the Cliffy protectors to reinstall the cannon and under playfield trough. Then we shall see how it plays.
We are not telling the wife that I expended $748 in parts alone, using up several months of my pinball budget. I stopped counting the labor hours at 53.....

Question for the folks who own this pin and are able to play it regularly. Is $3500 a fair price for one in good condition in today's market? I have a lead on one and that's what they want for it. And I know there may be a bias on this thread, but does the game have enough going on to keep you coming back and be worth owning long term?

I think 3500 could be cheap depending on condition

Though I don't exactly play it regularly, I've owned mine for almost 20 years and still love it just like I did the first time I played it. The cannon is a really unique and fun toy and it's still satisfying sinking ships after all this time. It's easy to load, but it's the central focus of the game so that makes sense to me. I love the flow of the ramps, the ricochet shots, the long broadside shot and trying to lock balls to get the elusive 3 ball mulltiball. Though the back glass art could be better, the playfield and cabinet artwork is great. The music is fantastic, the sound effects are great and the call outs are in character which I like. The video modes are simple yet fun - knife throwing and swing from the riggings are just timing based, but swimming from the sharks requires intense button slamming reminiscent of the arcade game Track & Field. All of the other video animation is really well done too. Can you feel the love here?

It's worth mentioning though, that I am a casual player who just enjoys playing pinball. It seems like most people who do no care for this game are competitive players who are focused on "balanced scoring" and deep rule sets. Some complain about the habitrail blocking the view which it totally does not. I'm glad it's there - the return fire effect really adds to the excitement of the game. I've never been able to level the cannon perfectly (is it even possible?) so the ball can do some wonky stuff when rolling over it, but hey... a little chaos just adds to the fun!

As far as price, I feel like it should have a bunch of new parts for $3500, but who knows with this ridiculous market. The prices just keep going up an up with no end in sight! Play before you pay if you can. It's really hard to guess whether you'll like it or not without actually playing it. If you can't, it might be worth purchasing Pinball FX3 and playing it virtually: https://store.steampowered.com/app/984180/Pinball_FX3__Williams_Pinball_Volume_2/ Though it ain't the real thing, it will at least give you a feel for it. Good luck!

.

My BR gets more plays that the TAF beside it. To me BR is a great, underrated, game.

I am now 99% finished with repairs to Black Rose, the game is playable. Put the Cliffys, cannon and underside ramp back in, just had to make minor adjustments to the cannon base plate and it seems to work fine. The Cliffy protector makes a big difference covering the playfield damage, I don't notice any effect on the rolling pinball. I had to add one flat washer under the end of the clear plastic trough that feeds the cannon, occasionally the pinball would hang up at the junction and not enter the cannon assembly. The tiny thickness of one flat washer brought the two surfaces closer to even and the ball has entered cleanly ever since. Also made minor adjustments to the shooter lane upper s/s guide wall so the ball will go up the ramp on a hard shot instead of hitting the right black rubber post. And one light bulb failed, and of course the membrane switch for the Fire! button is dead. I did expect the She-Pirate to speak more but it seems fun so far. Now to get the grandkids and I to play the game for a while and see what happens!

What are you going to do about the dead membrane switch? mine still works but I find it hard to use for video modes like walk the plank, so i just end up using the flippers instead. I've seen new ones for sale over seas. But I also remember seeing a pic in the gallery of this thread where someone replaced it with a micro-switch, which I would be interested in as well.

marco has the membrane switch in stock $47.99

I used a normal switch. Pretty sure I seen it done on this tread.

using the flippers works for now, I might buy a new membrane switch later, or research the conversion to micro snap switch. It has been a very loooong repair road with Black Rose and for now we just want to play it.

I bought a new membrane switch for mine, and was very disappointed in short of a time period it lasted. Keep in mind, this machine is home use only.

I keep thinking about installing a micro switch, but I never get around to it. I’m pretty well used to the left flipper.

Might have just had a bad one or something? Mines at least 5-10 years old at this point, and has spent the last year on location without issue

wife made me stickers for the replacement shooter cover I had to install. Self stick vinyl, inkjet printer, Cricut Maker software and die cut machine. Looks ok to me, ignore the dust......
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Here is my homemade mod…
Are pinball leage does a “crazy pin night”
This is what We came up with for Black rose.

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That is crazy looking fun

I see switches on the plank too which means you turn the wheel to flip right?

Yes- that is exactly what you do. You have to use the wheel to activate flippers

That looks really fun.

Installed the new FIRE! membrane switch today, works fine now. Needed one of the old square rubber pads to take up space under the Fire button. New switch appears to be a bit better made than the old original, we shall see. Now I need to adjust to using the fire button more instead of the flippers. Black Rose is officially at 100% functionality as of today!

I recently obtained a Black Rose that I am working on.
Does anyone know what this blue cable attached to the lock down receiver is?

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flat ribbon cable to the flat membrane switch located on the lock down bar.
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This is the FIRE! switch for shooting the playfield cannon and used in the video modes. Easy to test the function in Switch test menu. You can program the flippers to perform the same function as the Fire! button. Membrane switch has 5 sets of contacts, but only the center one is used. Yours looks just like the one I removed, original from '92. I just installed a new membrane switch in my BR today, super easy. $48 dollars from Marco.

Ok. Thank you. It looks like the dealer who sold the game to the previous owner installed a leaf switch over the top of the old membrane switch and soldered the wires from the leaf switch directly to the board rather than spending the $47 on the membrane switch, if it was even available at the time.
It works so I will leave it alone.