(Topic ID: 112697)

Black Rose Club: owners and fans welcome


By FlippinFantastic

6 years ago



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There are 1483 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 30.
#51 6 years ago

Got the LEDs all done. I am missing a few of the twist type (44/47), gotta get those ,but I am extremely happy with how the LEDs look. I think they really look sharp and liven the pin up. Pic of them as well as the shooter rod.

BR LED.jpg BR Rose.jpg
#52 6 years ago

Those LEDs look great njgsx96! Did you colour match inserts or go for all white bulbs?

I'm considering LEDing my Black Rose too once I've saved up a bit more cash. I'm wondering how many come in the kit? I think I'll just go all whites and replace a few of the white insert lights with green.

#53 6 years ago

Thanks. I picked up a kit from Cointaker using his Christmas discount. It is mostly white with some color matching. I think you can put together a cheaper "kit" yourself with getting mostly whites but color matching a few of the accent lights. When you are ready to buy let me know and we can talk it over! I know I want to swap out a few colors for some whites, which I will be getting soon. I can take some pics and you can see what you like as well.

Thanks, Rich

#54 6 years ago

any black rose owners that need a set of manuals?.......$25 including shipping U.S.

#55 6 years ago

I'm in the club as of last night. This one is fresh in the door. I picked it up 10 minutes from home. Seller was a real nice guy and sold it for fair market value. It needs a bit of cleaning up ... has cabinet fade, but it's complete, full LEDS (playfield, GI, and backbox), and with a day 1 full playfield mylar. Looks like a french re-import from the coin door (somehow it's kinda cool for this pin). Looking forward to tearing it down.

image-656.jpg
#56 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

I'm in the club as of last night. This one is fresh in the door. I picked it up 10 minutes from home. Seller was a real nice guy and sold it for fair market value. It needs a bit of cleaning up ... has cabinet fade, but it's complete, full LEDS (playfield, GI, and backbox), and with a day 1 full playfield mylar. Looks like a french re-import from the coin door (somehow it's kinda cool for this pin). Looking forward to tearing it down.

image-656.jpg 246 KB

So was this your "Attack from Mars" money?

Congrats! Lets see some pics with it all set up!

#57 6 years ago
Quoted from njgsx96:

So was this your "Attack from Mars" money?
Congrats! Lets see some pics with it all set up!

It made a dent in my pin budget. AFM is not out of the question. I'd really have to sell a pin or two though to make room. Getting a bit tight here.

#58 6 years ago

So a few questions for the club...

Are your BRs mylared (or did they come mylared), and to what extent? I was pleasantly surprised to see there's mylar darn near everywhere. Fully protected more or less top to bottom.

Was Black Rose a diamond plate? I didn't see the logo, but my understanding is everything after ~1991 had diamond plate.

And off on a tangent ... I read that the original design called for black pinballs. This idea was pulled for production time, but I know they're available now. Actually I have a set I plan to put in. Anyone else use them? Seems like a natural fit for cannonballs....

Brian

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

So a few questions for the club...
Are your BRs mylared (or did they come mylared), and to what extent? I was pleasantly surprised to see there's mylar darn near everywhere. Fully protected more or less top to bottom.
Was Black Rose a diamond plate? I didn't see the logo, but my understanding is everything after ~1991 had diamond plate.
And off on a tangent ... I read that the original design called for black pinballs. This idea was pulled for production time, but I know they're available now. Actually I have a set I plan to put in. Anyone else use them? Seems like a natural fit for cannonballs....
Brian

Can you point me in the direction of a set of those?

#60 6 years ago
Quoted from radrats:

Can you point me in the direction of a set of those?

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/PB116-BKP

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#61 6 years ago

Sweet! thank you.

#62 6 years ago
Quoted from radrats:

Sweet! thank you.

Yeah, they'll look badass in a Black Rose.

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

So a few questions for the club...
Are your BRs mylared (or did they come mylared), and to what extent? I was pleasantly surprised to see there's mylar darn near everywhere. Fully protected more or less top to bottom.
Was Black Rose a diamond plate? I didn't see the logo, but my understanding is everything after ~1991 had diamond plate.
And off on a tangent ... I read that the original design called for black pinballs. This idea was pulled for production time, but I know they're available now. Actually I have a set I plan to put in. Anyone else use them? Seems like a natural fit for cannonballs....
Brian

My playfield has some mylar on it, down by the "Shoot Again" and around the cannon for sure. I think by the drop targets too but not sure offhand. I can check later.

The log for Diamond Plate on mine is just above the right flipper.

I noticed that too about the black pinballs. Who carries them? I think I might like to try that. Have to check the online sites for a good deal.

#64 6 years ago

You would THINK it would be a bit hard to follow those black balls??? Like to hear some feedback from someone that's used them..

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Yeah, they'll look badass in a Black Rose.

I put them in mine. They are a nice touch and I don't have any trouble seeing them. Highly recommend!

#66 6 years ago

I just added the black pinballs this afternoon. Certainly fits the theme great. They are harder to follow though. We'll see if I keep them in there.

#67 6 years ago

There was a Black Rose on Craigslist Minneapolis this afternoon for $1400. Looks like it's already gone.

Wonder who just joined the club?

#68 6 years ago

I'm hoping to join within the next couple days!

Could anyone please tell me the exact width of the backbox? Is it the game as a Williams DMD precisely?

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from njgsx96:

My playfield has some mylar on it, down by the "Shoot Again" and around the cannon for sure. I think by the drop targets too but not sure offhand. I can check later.
The log for Diamond Plate on mine is just above the right flipper.
I noticed that too about the black pinballs. Who carries them? I think I might like to try that. Have to check the online sites for a good deal.

Here's the mylar coverage I can see. Portions of the outlanes, the upper right orbit, left orbit (Pirate's Cove), and a small strip between the flippers and center drain are all that's unprotected.

BR_Mylar.jpg
#70 6 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

I'm hoping to join within the next couple days!
Could anyone please tell me the exact width of the backbox? Is it the game as a Williams DMD precisely?

Exact width is 28 7/8"

I measured my Flintstones for comparison: about 1/8" narrower, 28 3/4"

#71 6 years ago

Oh wow, you do have a full playfield mylar. I played a few games last night (sank 2 ships!) and saw I have just a single piece of mylar that goes around the bottom half of the cannon and along the flippers. Not sure why they put just that on it. I kind of fee like pulling it off. How do you do that without damaging the playfield?

I thought I had more, but those are just scratches and cracks. A definite player's Black Rose.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from njgsx96:

Oh wow, you do have a full playfield mylar. I played a few games last night (sank 2 ships!) and saw I have just a single piece of mylar that goes around the bottom half of the cannon and along the flippers. Not sure why they put just that on it. I kind of fee like pulling it off. How do you do that without damaging the playfield?
I thought I had more, but those are just scratches and cracks. A definite player's Black Rose.

Mylar removal is always "at your own risk", so read up on the experience of others.

I can tell you that a diamond plated playfield is your best candidate (the mylar removal isn't likely to remove artwork, if you're careful). Pick up a can of canned air at Radio Shack (there's cheaper places, but that's local for me). Turn the can upside-down (which allows the propellant to coming out of the nozzle versus the air) and shoot it (tapping carefully, but apply liberally) at a lifted edge of the mylar (anywhere it seems to be coming up). Careful not to hit your fingers or risk minor frostbite. You're freezing the adhesive under the mylar, so again - liberally (from the edge to about an inch or two ahead of the area you want to pull). Use a pair of tweezers/forceps to gently tug on the mylar. You'll be surprised how fast it starts coming up. Once it starts coming up shoot the sprayer under the mylar now, at the point it's separating and keep tugging gently.

What's left behind on the playfield is the adhesive. Lots of theories on what works best. I use a high-power citrus cleaner (909 Orange Power Plus) and it works great. Careful though, older non-diamondplated playfields with exposed/older paint does not like this stuff.

After all the adhesive is off, you can polish and wax (a whole separate topic) ... but you're left with a pretty shiny (and fast) playfield.

Good luck,

Brian

#73 6 years ago

Anyone repair cannon wear more than just plopping a cliffy on it?

I've looked at a br that has massive cannon wear. Just wondering if the cannon can be completely removed, leaving a big circle in the pf so that I can fix the wear.

Thoughts?

#74 6 years ago

where did you get those cool instruction cards?

#75 6 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Anyone repair cannon wear more than just plopping a cliffy on it?
I've looked at a br that has massive cannon wear. Just wondering if the cannon can be completely removed, leaving a big circle in the pf so that I can fix the wear.
Thoughts?

Sure it can be removed, no doubt.

The repair is going to take some serious work though. Cleaning, filing/rasping for the next step: wood putty. Shaping, sanding, more sanding, priming, airbrushing, spot clear-coating, more sanding, polishing, etc. etc.. Not sure if there's an overlay to shortcut the artwork repair ...

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

where did you get those cool instruction cards?

Came with the pin. I can scan them if anyone wants ... but I'm sure there's a better copy online.

Brian

#77 6 years ago

I've used wood epoxy putty to repair scoop holes before. Easy stuff to use.

Anyone have a good color match for that beige color on the cannon?

#78 6 years ago

Officially member of the club now. BR joined me yesterday as my third machine. Played it a few weeks before along several others at a place that opens to the public once a month for a small entrance fee and has more than 160 machines available on free-play. I immediately was intrigued by the pirate theme and loved the broadside cannon feature along with the cannon unter the playfield.

I purchased both of my other pins from the same guy and saw that he had a BR as well I just told him that whenever he wanted to get rid of it I am the one he should call first. I did not exprect to hear back from him within three weeks, but here we are (or should I say 'arrrrrr'?) now.

Could not move it to the house alone yesterday, so I had to wait for a friend to come over and help me with that.

Played a few games already, but need to level the pin correctly tomorrow and fix a few very minor things.

Overall condition of the machine is okay for playing, but definitely needs some love, especially the red on cabinet and backbox has completey faded to yellow. Depending on if I still like BR in a month or two I will digitize the artwork and get new cab decals printed.

One question though: Other than BR I have a W?D and a JM, both WPC-95 machines, so slightly different. The Backglass of the BR has no lift plastic on the bottom and even with the backbox lock unlocked it seems to be a very thight fit, wuite hard to remove. It is supposed to be this way or did someone replace it with a slightly too large glass sometime along the way?

#79 6 years ago

After a dozen games I was beginning to feel the game was just too easy. I installed the Extra Hard settings in the adjustments menu and shortened most of the timers way down ... much much better.

Then I decided to tear the whole game down and give it a good polish, tumble and tune. Will share some pics soon.

Brian

#80 6 years ago

BTW, is there a way to remove the cannon habitrail without removing the playfield? Everything appears to be anchored behind the backboard.

#81 6 years ago

I heard a rumor that a very nice BR will be at Stone Henge in NE Ohio soon

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

BTW, is there a way to remove the cannon habitrail without removing the playfield? Everything appears to be anchored behind the backboard.

If you can get the pf hinges to come off the posts, you can then slide the pf forward a bit. The wood part of the pf will be resting on the posts, and you'll have to a have a coil bracket of wire bracket on the lock down receiver.

This should allow access to the back, to get the habitrail off.

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

If you can get the pf hinges to come off the posts, you can then slide the pf forward a bit. The wood part of the pf will be resting on the posts, and you'll have to a have a coil bracket of wire bracket on the lock down receiver.
This should allow access to the back, to get the habitrail off.

Makes sense. Didn't check to see if the lugs would hit anything else when slid forward...

BR is a great candidate for a slide out conversion...

#84 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Makes sense. Didn't check to see if the lugs would hit anything else when slid forward...
BR is a great candidate for a slide out conversion...

I can't remember exactly what it was resting on, as it was a few months ago. I had to do this to work on it. I ended up pulling the entire pf to clean everything in the back--it was just so much easier. But it can be done without pulling it out.

A slide out conversion would be great!

#85 6 years ago

One of few early 90s games that I'd like to buy and route.

#86 6 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

BTW, is there a way to remove the cannon habitrail without removing the playfield? Everything appears to be anchored behind the backboard.

Yes, but it is difficult. I replaced the wireform on my machine without removing the playfield and it was a royal PIA. First you have to unscrew the metal plate that goes over the the wireform/back panel. This can be done by lifting the playfield which lowers the top of the playfield into the cabinet so you can access the panel. Once that is loosened, you have to lower the back box and pull back the metal plate and move the plastic wiring harnesses going down into the cabinet to get access to the screws holding the wireform to the playfield. Its not easy because you are working through the hole in the cabinet and space is limited. But if I can do it, anyone can do it.

#87 6 years ago
Quoted from Nycon:

Officially member of the club now. BR joined me yesterday as my third machine.
One question though: Other than BR I have a W?D and a JM, both WPC-95 machines, so slightly different. The Backglass of the BR has no lift plastic on the bottom and even with the backbox lock unlocked it seems to be a very thight fit, wuite hard to remove. It is supposed to be this way or did someone replace it with a slightly too large glass sometime along the way?

Congrats on the new game!

I think WhoDunnit and Johnny Mnemonic are actually both WPC-S, not WPC95, just to clarify, so most of the PCBs are the same or every similar. Hopefully someone can tell you what the issue is; if not, I'll check tomorrow when I pick up my Black Rose!

#88 6 years ago
Quoted from Nycon:

The Backglass of the BR has no lift plastic on the bottom and even with the backbox lock unlocked it seems to be a very thight fit, wuite hard to remove. It is supposed to be this way or did someone replace it with a slightly too large glass sometime along the way?

I can tell you mine moves in and out with ease. It should have a lift channel (plastic). Pretty standard lift channel, and plastic boarders/translite retainers around the other three sides.

#89 6 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

I think WhoDunnit and Johnny Mnemonic are actually both WPC-S

My mistake, had a long day. Of course you are correct.

@pinster68: I guess I have to add a lift channel to the list of parts I still need.

Soes anyone know if a shop in Europe sells cabinet decals for BR? I know that planetary pinball have them, but with shipping and import fees they end up being ~380$ which I am not (yet) ready to pay for decals. If I cannto find anything here I am going to vectorize all of the artwork myself (have been doing this for my W?D, will be printed soon) and get them professionally printed by a company who has been known do do very decent jobs, a few pinheads from a local forum have already worked with them and are very satisfied with the results.

The plastics on ma machine seem to be in decent condition, only the two pirates over slings have small marks where the plastic is in contact with the screws on the return lane guides. But I can make these as well and I will, as I will add a few plastic pieces for decoration that I think fit the theme well, so I have to get something printed anyways.

#90 6 years ago

Nycon,

Have you considered airbrushing the cabinet? Seems easy enough as there's no dithering. I'm going to try it on mine before going the decal route.

#91 6 years ago

Well, there is a bit of dithering on the top and bottom of the paper on the sides as well as on the sails an the sides of the backbox, but my cab has no damage in that area... Airbrushing might be an option, although I do not have any equipment for that yet. I know that I will be doing some clearcoting of playfields sometime this year, so I will buy the equipment eventually.

The thing is that I have experience with digitizing and printing images but I have never done airbrushing before and have next to zero artistic skills. I'll see what I am going to do about that, still a bit of restoration planned for my other two machines as well.

I will keep you posted if there is anything interesting happening to my BR

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from djblouw:

If you can get the pf hinges to come off the posts, you can then slide the pf forward a bit. The wood part of the pf will be resting on the posts, and you'll have to a have a coil bracket of wire bracket on the lock down receiver.
This should allow access to the back, to get the habitrail off.

Worked like a charm, thanks for the suggestion. I nudged the playfield mounts off of the lugs by grabbing the playfield on the sides and from the front, then lifting and pulling forward. I felt the lugs rest on the wood then carefully slid it forward and rested it on the cannon mech under the playfield. The only slight obstruction to sliding the lugs on the wood was the two light sockets in the back right corner, but a little nudge and it passed them without damage.

I was able to access all the bits from the back ... onward with my tear-down.

IMG_2095.jpg IMG_2096.jpg IMG_2098.jpg IMG_2100.jpg
#93 6 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

where did you get those cool instruction cards?

Might be better copies elsewhere but here's one: http://www.pinballrebel.com/game/pins/card/blackrose2.jpg

#94 6 years ago

What's the correct flipper bat for BR & where can I get it? thx!

#95 6 years ago

Has anyone ever had an issue with the Cannon not staying in the levelers / guides? It seems like mine is falling out of one.

Coincidentally, the black ring that attaches the levelers to the playfield seems to have been repaired previously...

#96 6 years ago
Quoted from Butch2099:

What's the correct flipper bat for BR & where can I get it? thx!

Mine came with black lightening flippers and red rubbers. Looks stock from the original brochure, but I'm not sure about the lightning flippers. Planetary Pinball sells lightening flippers on their "pinball specific" parts for BR.

#97 6 years ago

So my tear-down and mylar removal is progessing, but it's a bit more difficult than expected. I switched from freeze method to heat. I used a heat gun at low setting. All was going well until I lifted one of the insert decals (POT in Jack Pot). Bummer. I've since switched to citrus cleaner and that's going slow, but much safer.

So now I suspect the playfield is not Diamondplate ... actually I'm pretty sure mine isn't. So now the question is where to leave it alone and just clean it up and apply lots of wax, or totally strip it down and have it touched up and cleared. Obviously a HUGE time and cost difference....

#98 6 years ago

Were you not satisfied with the frezing method or why did you switch? I really want to get rid of my playfield mylar as it seems to have been custom scissor-cut and has a few edges that do not really look good. In addition I have several layers of mylar on some parts of my playfield, especially unpeasant to look at is a pretty askew piece that looks like some kind of rest of mylar simply added between the flippers to cover a pretty large area, presumably to protect the initial mylar and playfield from the impact of the center cannon wireframe drop... I will post a few pics tomorrow.

I have just ordered a few cans of compressed air to be used as freezing agent. I have seen a few videos in which it looked like a breeze to remove mylar, so I was quite eagery looking forward to that...

#99 6 years ago

Pinster68, the question is, were you doing this for you or for resale and can you do the touchup and clear or do you have to go somewhere and pay? Black Rose is not an expensive pin so if you were doing this for you, so you have a real nice example to play and enjoy, and if you have the funds to lose (you will not recoup them on a resell) or can do the work yourself, then I say go all out. but if you just wanted a pin to play and eventually sell as a players pin to someone else, then I would just clean it up, wax it and enjoy it.

Also, you are pretty close. If you need some help, let me know. I can come by and help out, play some pinball and shoot the sh!t.

#100 6 years ago

@NYCON: freeze works great for diamond plate playfields. For the BR it just wasn't going smoothly. Definitely not like my past experiences. Although I had trouble with my Funhouse (non-DP as well) now that I recall. The heat was going well, but again, you need to be VERY careful. Actually it's more risk than it's worth. A citrus or Goo Gone approach is slow, but much safer.

@NJGSX96, this one is for me. Definitely did not intend to buy and flip. I will no doubt have more money into it than others would be willing to play. I'm a Trudeau fan (I own a Creature and Flintstones) and BR was the last pin I played way back when, before I became a collector in 2008. It's easy to understand, but (set to difficult all around) hard to master. Thanks for the offer to assist. I'm largely a solo guy, it's sort of my zen peace time that I need, but always welcome guests - I'll give you a shout when I'm going to be in the shop for a while.

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