(Topic ID: 116545)

Black Rose Cannon Won't Fire


By Bubbatom

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 14 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Bubbatom
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#1 6 years ago

Hey there Pinside!

I've recently cleaned up my Black Rose, stuck a couple LEDs in to test them out and replaced a broken switch to name a few fixes, but one problem I have yet to fix.

The cannon in the middle of the playfield will only fire on certain angles. It can make the center shot, the ramps and both loops, but shooting at any of the standup targets usually results in the ball not being released. The sound effect plays and the DMD displays "Shot Missed" but the ball remains in the cannon. It is released once the machine does it's ball check, allowing the game to still be playable, yet annoying if a shot to the targets is made.

I'm wondering what causes this and what a possible fix would be? It's probably to do with the solenoid down there, but the fact that it only fires on that angle during the ball check is fairly odd. I don't know much about the cannon setup or solenoids in general, so I thought I'd ask here.

Thoughts and opinions?

Thanks

#2 6 years ago

Broken wire to the coil if it fires only in certain angles seems the 1st thing to check.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Broken wire to the coil if it fires only in certain angles seems the 1st thing to check.

Agree.

rd.

#4 6 years ago

I'll triple that. My cannon assembly is on my workbench now getting an overall. Good time to build a new wiring harness.

#5 6 years ago

Thanks guys.

It's back to school tomorrow, so I'll need to check it out afterwards.

Cheers

#6 5 years ago

I can't seem to find any broken wires that should be attached.

I did notice that the solenoid has three contacts, though only the top two had attached wires. The third has solder on it suggesting something has been there at one point, but I don't think it could've been a third wire as following the wires leads to a four-pronged plug at the top left of the playfield near the flippers, two prongs for the two solenoid wires and two flasher wires.

I'm a little stumped on this one!

#7 5 years ago

By broken wires, we mean broken inside the sleeving.

A wire can look ok from the outside, yet be broken inside. That could explain the "works sometimes" aspect.

Because the cannon moves from side to side, this fatigues the wiring.

A way to test this would be to clip one end of a meter on each end of a wire on "continuity test" and flex the wire with your hands. If the beeping of the meter stops, you have found your problem.

rd.

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Bubbatom:

I did notice that the solenoid has three contacts, though only the top two had attached wires.

It looks like this is not the original coil, the manual indicates an A-15016 with 2 contacts.

#9 5 years ago

Thanks rotordave for the clarification.

This is probably my issue. I need to dig around the shed sometime to find my voltage meter and give your little test a go!
I'll report back on the issue once I've done the test.

If one of the wires turns out to be broken, this would be a fairly easy fix? I assume connecting a wire from the solenoid into the connector would be fairly easy?

In regards to your comment zaza, I reckon you're right. The solenoid has an odd sticker wrapped around it. It seems to do the job just fine though!

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from Bubbatom:

If one of the wires turns out to be broken, this would be a fairly easy fix? I assume connecting a wire from the solenoid into the connector would be fairly easy?

It can be, depending on your ability.

Remove the whole assembly rather than try to work under the lifted playfield. If I recall there's two wiring harnesses to disconnect. I think there may be a tie-wrap or two to clip off.

Buzz out all the wires with an ohm meter to check for continuity ... and move the harness to see of you lose continuity at any point.

Assuming you narrow it down the wiring harness (encased in shrink tube) you'll want to remove the shrink tube (carefully with a small pair of scissors). That will expose all of the inner wires. Inspect each naturally and look for a break. Be aware though that the break may not show through the insulation. I've had breaks inside (the insulation is more flexible than the copper core). Again, you can try to narrow it down with an ohm meter.

And now the decision: repair the one broken/failing wire, buy a new wiring harness, or make your own. Again, this all depends on your skill level, and whether you have all the parts, and patience. A quick repair will be exactly that ... and get you back working again, well - quickly.

Not sure if someone sells a pre-made harness. Won't be cheap, but with a few solders and a couple of tie-wraps you're back online, and likely reliable for the remaining life of your BR in home-use.

To make your own will be much cheaper, and you'll only have to do this once. You'll need shrink tubing, tie-wraps, molex pins and a pin crimper, a molex pin extractor (if you want to keep the harness housings), stranded copper wire (not sure of the gauge), and time. But ... aside from it being time consuming, it is kinda easy ... and you gain new pinball repair skills. I did say this was a cheap option, though the crimper (if you don't already have one) can be a bit pricey ... but it's a one-time purchase and you'll likely use it for many other repairs down the road.

Good luck. Again, if you need any pics let me know ... my BR cannon is still on my workbench waiting an overhaul. I will likely build a new harness.

#11 5 years ago

Thanks for the detailed info pinster68!

I had a look after school tonight with an ohm meter and I found it fairly difficult to get a steady reading from the meter as they were all over the place. I think I'll just replace both wires, that way I can be sure that the solenoid will work!

I do really enjoy doing these small repairs, one by one! Makes most of the underside of a playfield easier to understand!

Thanks, Tom

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from Bubbatom:

Thanks for the detailed info pinster68!
I had a look after school tonight with an ohm meter and I found it fairly difficult to get a steady reading from the meter as they were all over the place. I think I'll just replace both wires, that way I can be sure that the solenoid will work!
I do really enjoy doing these small repairs, one by one! Makes most of the underside of a playfield easier to understand!
Thanks, Tom

You don't get a reading on a continuity test.

Turn the machine OFF and just test the wire. The meter will buzz when the circuit is complete (or show a circuit on the display) Wriggle the wire. If it stops buzzing, you found the problem. Alligator clips are very handy to hold the meter cables to the ends of the wire.

If in doubt, Google "continuity test" and watch a YouTube video on the process. Lots of helpful stuff on YouTube.

rd.

#13 5 years ago

Yeah, I worked out I was using the wrong function on the meter! When I did give each wire a test using the ohm function, everything showed up fine, I even removed the heat-shrink and couldn't feel any issues within each wire. I was a little stumped after that.

Also had a check of the switch underneath the cannon that detects the ball while it sits, awaiting to be fired. Switch was fine, I even moved it up higher slightly and checked the wires here too, same problem persists.

Any other ideas?

Thanks for the ongoing support, I'm going to be glad once this issue is sorted and I can sell the damn thing!

#14 5 years ago

Nah, don't fret anyone!

I've sorted it all out! Turns out BOTH wires to the switch under the cannon where broken. I went for another look tonight and upon moving the switch wires from the hook keeping them in place, the plastic coating broke on both and revealed no wire inside. Gave the wires a strip, re solder and heat-shrink and the cannon can now make all angles! There's still a bit of fixing up and arrangement of the wires to do under the playfield both for the solenoid and the switch wires, but boy am I glad to have this fixed!

Thanks for all the help and support guys!

Tom

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