(Topic ID: 272184)

Black Knight upper flippers buzzing, but not flipping

By dcerny

3 years ago



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#1 3 years ago

Hello!
So I started with a 100% working Black Knight. Took one full pf out and put another full pf in. Everything is working on the new pf except the upper flippers.

All parts of both upper flipper assemblies- except coils- are brand new. The upper flippers/mechs move freely and feel snappy when moved by hand- no obvious binding happening. Cabinet switches are also new (and worked perfectly with 1st pf). Both lower flippers are working great, feel strong.

When I'm in switch test and press the flipper buttons- the lower flippers flip normal, but the upper flippers just sit there. If I manually help them- like physically hold the upper flipper bat halfway- then I can feel/hear the coil buzzing TRYING to complete the flip, but doesn't seem to actually have enough power to do anything.

Having the 1st pf right next to me to compare- everything looks exactly the same. No obvious mistake in wiring/assembly. Upper flippers on the first pf worked perfectly.

I initially thought maybe it was something mechanical, but seems odd that BOTH upper flippers basically have the same issue. So- what is the common denominator I am not thinking of here..... Tried digging through forums for ideas but coming up empty. Attaching a quick pic for reference but can take more specific ones if needed.

Appreciate any ideas- thanks!
Dan

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#2 3 years ago

Are the coil diodes oriented the same on the old and new pf's? And the end of travel switches are adjusted correctly? Double check the wiring to the upper flipper. Sounds like the power may be feeding the high resistance side of the coil.

#3 3 years ago

Make sure you have a bit of up and down play on the bats throughout their entire stroke. Also are conical return springs installed with the large side towards the coil? They look a little odd in the picture but that wouldn't be related to the no flip issue.

#4 3 years ago

EOS switches. New switches often have a bit of film or oxidation on them, or don't seat together perfectly well, and that adds resistance. Doesn't take much at all to exceed the resistance of the coil windings themselves. It then acts as though only the hold winding is activated, which oftentimes isn't enough to move the flipper against gravity.
Clean the EOS switches thoroughly with a business card; maybe bend them a bit so there is more pressure holding the 2 reeds of the EOS switches together.

(As a test, you can try flipping with the EOS switches shorted with alligator clips...just be very careful to do very quick flips; holding the flipper button for any length of time will blow a fuse (at best) or burn a bridge or coil. If the flippers are strong in this configuration, that means there is too much resistance in your EOS switches.)

#5 3 years ago

With power off, check the resistance across the flipper coil with flipper in the unpowered position, then move the flipper manually to the actuated position (which opens the EOS) and measure the resistance. Report your findings. Just want to confirm the wiring is correct. You should have low resistance on the first reading, and high resistance doing the second reading. I have seen flipper coils manufactured with the diode backwards, and the installer unknowingly wired to the diode correctly, but that left a flipper that didn't work because initial power was applied across the coil over the high resistance windings.

#6 3 years ago

You have some really great suggestions by the others above. If those flippers were just rebuilt, my bet is the EOS is on the wrong side of the coil.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

You have some really great suggestions by the others above. If those flippers were just rebuilt, my bet is the EOS is on the wrong side of the coil.

The pic appears correct vs. my BK - EOS wires going to the left and center lugs (hold winding), banded end of diode going to the other lug (main winding).

#8 3 years ago

Hello all

Appreciate all the excellent suggestions- messing with the EOS switches indeed solved the problem. (Diodes/wiring are all correct btw.) But tightening the gap of the switches at full flip got them going. (a little strange that the lower flippers worked without having to do the same adjustment, but not complaining) Still got some buzzing in the coils. Honestly, I might take them all apart and resolder just to confirm connections, but at least we are flipping.

Now I have a new issue of the pop bumper switch causing resets- think I may have fat-fingered something while messing with the flippers but that's for another day/post.

Appreciate all the insight- I knew the problem had to be staring me in the face. Brand new parts still need adjusting- go figure. Thanks again!

#9 3 years ago

Since the new flipper eos switches are high power ones (not gold flashed) you might want to also run a flexstone or very fine file between them a few swipes just to clean off any of the above-mentioned oxidation, may have still been the actual issue. But it will probably just get worn away anyway now that they are flipping.

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