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(Topic ID: 241887)

Black Knight trough switch + IDC question

By Brijam

4 years ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by slochar
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 4 years ago
OP
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

My Black Knight won't start, I traced it to the rightmost ball trough switch.

I pulled J1 and J2 from the MPU and tested with a wire and all switches 'worked' on the board. All the other switches work in switch test, but the trough (switch 19) doesn't work. I replaced the diode with a new 4004, no luck. I tried to test continuity from the switch to the plug, but I can't seem to get the continuity test to work for /any/ of the wires, I think I'm doing it wrong because of the IDC. Seems like my probe is too big for the plug (it's a common problem I have ).

First question how do I test the wire for continuity without cutting the wire or shaving off some plastic?

Second question, is about the IDC connector. I don't have IDC tools so I tend to convert these to a molex connector. But some of the IDC connections are doubled up, do I just cut the wires and crimp two wires to the trifurcon? I don't know if that's safe or legit.

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#2 4 years ago
 
237

slochar

Pinside member

7y 86,550 6,907

Stick a paper clip or a spare connector into the plug to get the probe on it (obviously with the plug removed) to test the continuity. Yes, you can crimp 2 wires into the same pin if they are smaller gauge or you can solder the 2 together and a short length as a pigtail into the connector instead.

The switch test for system 7 is nice in that it will show all closed switches; do you get all 3 closed or the right most is open? Try taking the 3 balls out and put 2 in the upper lock trough, and the 3rd in the shooter lane - you should be able to start a game from there.

Some of the early williams are funny in that they will not start a game if they see TOO many balls in too many places, not just not enough in the correct places. So if there were 4 switches closed (say the shooter lane, too) it wouldn't start either.

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#3 4 years ago
OP
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from slochar:

Stick a paper clip or a spare connector into the plug to get the probe on it (obviously with the plug removed) to test the continuity. Yes, you can crimp 2 wires into the same pin if they are smaller gauge or you can solder the 2 together and a short length as a pigtail into the connector instead.
The switch test for system 7 is nice in that it will show all closed switches; do you get all 3 closed or the right most is open? Try taking the 3 balls out and put 2 in the upper lock trough, and the 3rd in the shooter lane - you should be able to start a game from there.
Some of the early williams are funny in that they will not start a game if they see TOO many balls in too many places, not just not enough in the correct places. So if there were 4 switches closed (say the shooter lane, too) it wouldn't start either.

I'll try the paper clip idea.

The right most switch won't close, no matter what I do. With three balls in the trough only the middle and leftmost switch closes. All the other switches work on the entire playfield.

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#4 4 years ago
 
TPR

frunch

Pinside member

US Point Pleasant, NJ

11y 135K 3,642 10

Just to be clear, are you talking about switch #17? Here's a chart for the switch locations and switch matrix chart:

Screenshot_20190430_094531_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1).jpgScreenshot_20190430_094531_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1).jpg
Screenshot_20190430_092846_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1)(1).jpgScreenshot_20190430_092846_com.lonelycatgames.Xplore(1)(1).jpg

Looking at the chart, it appears switch #17 (aka right ball ramp) shares the same row as the tilt bob switch--is your tilt bob wired up correctly? Do you get continuity from the white/brown wire at the tilt bob to the white/brown wire at switch #17? Is the diode at the tilt bob installed correctly and firmly attached at both ends?

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#5 4 years ago
OP
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Quoted from frunch:

Just to be clear, are you talking about switch #17? Here's a chart for the switch locations and switch matrix chart:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Looking at the chart, it appears switch #17 (aka right ball ramp) shares the same row as the tilt bob switch--is your tilt bob wired up correctly? Do you get continuity from the white/brown wire at the tilt bob to the white/brown wire at switch #17? Is the diode at the tilt bob installed correctly and firmly attached at both ends?

Yes, it's #17 thanks. I'll try that.

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#6 4 years ago
 
TPR

frunch

Pinside member

US Point Pleasant, NJ

11y 135K 3,642 10

I pointed out the tilt bob specifically because it's easy to overlook. I had my BK giving my fits where i couldn't start a game. Checked a million things before i finally realized the credit button shares a switch matrix row with the ball-roll tilt switch. Fixed a broken wire at the ball-roll tilt switch and haven't had the problem come back since.

However, if the wiring & diode checks at the tilt bob and you have continuity from the tilt bob to switch 17, go ahead and do the same check between switch 17 and the others that share the same column and row as it. Make sure to check that all wires are firmly attached at the switches, and that the diodes are oriented correctly and also are firmly attached.

More importantly, did you get to test from the switch up to the IDC connector?

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#7 4 years ago
 
???

pindel

Pinside member

12y 53,300 716 1

If trough switches are not micro switch type this conversion needs to be done. Both lower and upper switch sets. If any one switch fails the game is totally confused. https://www.ipdb.org/files/310/bkmicroswitchkit.pdf

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#8 4 years ago
OP
 
BJ.

Brijam

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 58,300 1,093 26 23

Argh, they're not micro switches. They're the old leaf switches. Are these kits available anywhere?

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#9 4 years ago
 
TSH

Travish

Pinside member

US Greensboro, NC

11y 98,800 3,348 6

Not unless you get lucky and salvage some. Pinball resource had parts but not full kits until about a year ago.

Are your switch blades facing the right way. Williams had a issue about that time where they had blades reversed and the rivit was facing the opposing contact. There's no way they couldn't have known but just kept shipping them out.

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#10 4 years ago
 
237

slochar

Pinside member

7y 86,550 6,907

Conveniently any williams system 9 or 11 game that has 3 balls in the trough can be harvested for the needed parts. I'm always torn about doing the conversion because microswitches doesn't mean maintenance free. The real issue with the leaf blades is that they get very mangled and thus hard to adjust. If they aren't mangled you can usually get them working 100%.... but if the contact is reversed that has to be replaced no matter what.

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