(Topic ID: 240171)

Black knight sword of rage or Willy Wonka


By Cantabkiwi

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 288 posts
  • 102 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by sven
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Black knight sword of rage or Willy Wonka”

  • Black knight swords of fury 139 votes
    31%
  • Willie wonka 241 votes
    55%
  • Other 62 votes
    14%

(442 votes)

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There are 288 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 6.
#251 1 year ago

MGC's year runs from April to April. 12 months. 1 year. Best game since the last MGC. Therefore game of the year.

#252 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

Remember if you are going on the fact the game is a prototype then things could still be pulled as with POTC and god knows how long till shipping. I myself think June shipping and no it is not just a prototype

Literally says prototype on the machine. You are desperately grasping now.

#253 1 year ago

before getting infos from these 2 pins, i was on the BK3 side (theme was the point)
but after having seen the stream (BK3), and played Wonka this WE, let's admit Wonka wins ! almost, for now...

-2
#254 1 year ago

So after seeing both games and playing both games let me just be fair here... you can’t compare these two games that just isn’t fair at all.

Black Knight is a very basic game, with almost no toys, hardly any detail, no license, no frills, and you’re going to compare that to Wonka? Please!

The choice is not fair, because if money was no object its Wonka every day including Sunday.

Anyone who buys a Black Knight LE needs to see a brain surgon because this doesn’t warrant an LE, this game should be a pro and nothing else.

Black Knight is going to be a REALLY FUN tournament game, and I have no doubt you’ll see this game in 10X more tournaments than you’ll ever see Wonka. Black Knight should be compared to buying this or so an Iron Maiden Pro. Wonka should be compared to Oktoberfest, or Pirates, or a YBR, or maybe even a Batman 66.

People should ask should I buy a TNA or Black Knight... Black Knight 110%. You can’t compare BK vs Wonka they’re two totally different games.

One is a high end collector game and the other is a tournament game.

I have no doubt if you lined up even the most dire hard Stern Fans and asked 100 of them you can take one FREE Wonka or DK, its going to end up 95-5 in favor of Wonka.

Now if you want to compare a BK pro (5500) vs Wonka LE 9500 you might be something closer to 50/50.

These are two totally different games and should be be compared.

Should I buy Wonka or a YBR that is a fair question, Pirates or Wonka not Wonka or TNA or Wonka and BK. Hopefully you see my point.

#255 1 year ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

The choice is not fair, because if money was no object its Wonka every day including Sunday. Anyone who buys a Black Knight LE needs to see a brain surgon because this doesn’t warrant an LE, this game should be a pro and nothing else.

Premium BK and JJP Pro are almost same prize. And it is allright to have different taste in things and doesn't need "brain surgon" .
Trust me on this one, we german have a history with this kind of dictation, what anyone had to do, to like or to think. And it had not end also well for us.
I like the premium artwork more but if anyone had the money and likes the LE more why shouldn't he buy one?
Or like Sailor said: "This is a snakeskin jacket! And for me it's a symbol of my individuality, and my belief... in personal freedom....."

#256 1 year ago

Hi, I see your point.
I have Ironman for fast n brutal and a woz for a slower deeper game.
It’s a space for one, yes I could go TA or Deadpool, but needs to also keep the family happy as it’s a lot of money.
Here in nz I have pay an extra 30% for currency, about 800 for shipping and another 15% on top of total for tax. So it 10225us for it landed.

But I do like.

#257 1 year ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

So after seeing both games and playing both games let me just be fair here... you can’t compare these two games that just isn’t fair at all.
Black Knight is a very basic game, with almost no toys, hardly any detail, no license, no frills, and you’re going to compare that to Wonka? Please!
The choice is not fair, because if money was no object its Wonka every day including Sunday.
Anyone who buys a Black Knight LE needs to see a brain surgon because this doesn’t warrant an LE, this game should be a pro and nothing else.
Black Knight is going to be a REALLY FUN tournament game, and I have no doubt you’ll see this game in 10X more tournaments than you’ll ever see Wonka. Black Knight should be compared to buying this or so an Iron Maiden Pro. Wonka should be compared to Oktoberfest, or Pirates, or a YBR, or maybe even a Batman 66.
People should ask should I buy a TNA or Black Knight... Black Knight 110%. You can’t compare BK vs Wonka they’re two totally different games.
One is a high end collector game and the other is a tournament game.
I have no doubt if you lined up even the most dire hard Stern Fans and asked 100 of them you can take one FREE Wonka or DK, its going to end up 95-5 in favor of Wonka.
Now if you want to compare a BK pro (5500) vs Wonka LE 9500 you might be something closer to 50/50.
These are two totally different games and should be be compared.
Should I buy Wonka or a YBR that is a fair question, Pirates or Wonka not Wonka or TNA or Wonka and BK. Hopefully you see my point.

DB1F4772-D489-441A-8A42-C8D35538106E (resized).jpeg
#258 1 year ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

So after seeing both games and playing both games let me just be fair here... you can’t compare these two games that just isn’t fair at all.
Black Knight is a very basic game, with almost no toys, hardly any detail, no license, no frills, and you’re going to compare that to Wonka? Please!
The choice is not fair, because if money was no object its Wonka every day including Sunday.
Anyone who buys a Black Knight LE needs to see a brain surgon because this doesn’t warrant an LE, this game should be a pro and nothing else.
Black Knight is going to be a REALLY FUN tournament game, and I have no doubt you’ll see this game in 10X more tournaments than you’ll ever see Wonka. Black Knight should be compared to buying this or so an Iron Maiden Pro. Wonka should be compared to Oktoberfest, or Pirates, or a YBR, or maybe even a Batman 66.
People should ask should I buy a TNA or Black Knight... Black Knight 110%. You can’t compare BK vs Wonka they’re two totally different games.
One is a high end collector game and the other is a tournament game.
I have no doubt if you lined up even the most dire hard Stern Fans and asked 100 of them you can take one FREE Wonka or DK, its going to end up 95-5 in favor of Wonka.
Now if you want to compare a BK pro (5500) vs Wonka LE 9500 you might be something closer to 50/50.
These are two totally different games and should be be compared.
Should I buy Wonka or a YBR that is a fair question, Pirates or Wonka not Wonka or TNA or Wonka and BK. Hopefully you see my point.

Its like comparing Candy Land to Risk.

#259 1 year ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

So after seeing both games and playing both games let me just be fair here... you can’t compare these two games that just isn’t fair at all.
Black Knight is a very basic game, with almost no toys, hardly any detail, no license, no frills, and you’re going to compare that to Wonka? Please!
The choice is not fair, because if money was no object its Wonka every day including Sunday.

I think it's a fair comparison, both are pinball machines and a BK premium is about the same cost as a Wonka SE.
I think it's always fair game to compare any 2 similar priced machines, I am sure people are deciding between the 2.

#260 1 year ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

So after seeing both games and playing both games let me just be fair here... you can’t compare these two games that just isn’t fair at all.
Black Knight is a very basic game, with almost no toys, hardly any detail, no license, no frills, and you’re going to compare that to Wonka? Please!
The choice is not fair, because if money was no object its Wonka every day including Sunday.
Anyone who buys a Black Knight LE needs to see a brain surgon because this doesn’t warrant an LE, this game should be a pro and nothing else.
Black Knight is going to be a REALLY FUN tournament game, and I have no doubt you’ll see this game in 10X more tournaments than you’ll ever see Wonka. Black Knight should be compared to buying this or so an Iron Maiden Pro. Wonka should be compared to Oktoberfest, or Pirates, or a YBR, or maybe even a Batman 66.
People should ask should I buy a TNA or Black Knight... Black Knight 110%. You can’t compare BK vs Wonka they’re two totally different games.
One is a high end collector game and the other is a tournament game.
I have no doubt if you lined up even the most dire hard Stern Fans and asked 100 of them you can take one FREE Wonka or DK, its going to end up 95-5 in favor of Wonka.
Now if you want to compare a BK pro (5500) vs Wonka LE 9500 you might be something closer to 50/50.
These are two totally different games and should be be compared.
Should I buy Wonka or a YBR that is a fair question, Pirates or Wonka not Wonka or TNA or Wonka and BK. Hopefully you see my point.

Do you ever stop?

You can compare any pinball against another pinball. It all comes down to fun, money, and space. None of the other bs you spew matters. Are those WOZYBR selling in "HIGH END RETAIL" stores for 18K yet?

Quoted from newtoit:

Its like comparing Candy Land to Risk.

This I sort of agree. One looks like it's made for children. Strangely children do not have money.

#261 1 year ago

I’m 99% Wonka but will wait for a good deal on secondary market.

I’m betting that wonka will sell more that JJP Potc. It looks fantastic.

———-

My deal is this. I don’t play a ton so for example while I own so many pins I’m not over anything in my collection.

In past I’ve sold pins to get something new and fresh. But what I sold was missed. I bought back SM and STLE.

So while the **newness** is great because you get to discuss and experiment with all the other new buyers. My point being if I get Wonka 1-2 years from now it’ll be new to me, meanwhile I’ll be able to play my current games.

The second option is to add another but not sell anything but that’s possible but I figure it’ll take away from my playing of my current games. I only play like 1-2 hours a week maybe less.

#262 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Literally says prototype on the machine. You are desperately grasping now.

Not grasping if the game is a prototype you should wait as two of the 4 JJP games had last minute changes

#263 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

Not grasping if the game is a prototype you should wait as two of the 4 JJP games had last minute changes

Also another thing to consider is not the last minute changes from JJP but the major issues with early production runs. I have no interest in buying one of the early run machines. I will wait on the sidelines and watch. I learned my lesson watching failing WOZ light boards, faulty ramps on Hobbit, the list goes on. People who want the game now and have to have it-will be taking a risk.

#264 1 year ago

These are two games that have my interest after playing Black Knight pro i decided to get one it was really fun and just get a HUO Wonka next year cheaper and with all the JJP bugs worked out.

#265 1 year ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Wow, someone must have literally pissed in your cornflakes this morning!
Fact is, some people chose to spend 8K or so on Primus, even though it was a "weak ass contract game". For $500 less they can now get a JJP new. I find that baffling, but some people saw enough value in Primus to buy one.

Agreed a bit, I would just have left it as "game of the show" or something.

I just feel bringing up Primus would be like me trashing Spooky with the Jetsons pinball to build up a game I like. Why not just say you like the multi-ball looking meck or you like the on playfield LCD screen on and on

#266 1 year ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Wow, someone must have literally pissed in your cornflakes this morning!

"literally" huh? do you have teenagers?

#267 1 year ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

I have a bk prem on order but after watch video from wonka I am going to cancel the bk and get wonka standard I think.

now after looking at more info about lead times etc I am sticking with the bk3. I will play it for a while then sell it and buy a wonka if it doesnt make the cut.

#268 1 year ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Wow, someone must have literally pissed in your cornflakes this morning!

"literally" huh? do you have teenagers?

Quoted from bladerunner:

What a nice gameroom! On the other hand if you got rid of that big black leather covered coffin in the foreground, you could put a SS, BSD, MSF, AF, MB, TFTC, TWD and Elvira when it comes out! That is 8 coffins for one!

the coffin now gets more play than all the pins combined

-11
#269 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Do you ever stop?

This again is the problem with forums... I'm saying very clearly its not fair to compare these two games.

NO ONE would ever compare these two games. Lets compare Metallica and ACDC. Lets compare Wizard of Oz and Willy Wonka.

Why are we comparing two games that are completely different oh I know why because they came out at the same time. That is the one reason.

Let me ask you something... if Willy Wonka comes out say 6 months from now and Black Knight came out 4 months ago would you compare the games?

NOPE!

Black Knight should be compared to Houdini or TNA because that's exactly what it is... its a shooter game, or tournament game nothing more. Black Knight will never be a collector game, you'll get it and 4 months later you'll look to sell or trade it.

Someone buys a Wizard of Oz they never sell it... typically its untouchable even though they don't play the game.

I talked to a guy yesterday and he said he would NEVER sell his Twilight Zone EVER. Once you get Black Knight you won't say that after 3 months... you'll play it, trade it and move it on.

The people who buy Wonka will probably never sell it because its a collector game, where as Black Knight is more of a tournament game. These two games can't be compared.

If you're forcing me to, okay you broke my arm, Black Knight in 6 months will be worth about these prices: Pro $4500 Premium $5700 LE $6300

Willy Wonka will sell just like Dialed In or WOZ it will lose maybe $500 to $800 bucks. If we're talking money Willy Wonka is going to pummel the Knight.

If we're talking about tournament game anything Stern is going to pummel JJP.

Now that is a fair statement.

#270 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Are those WOZYBR selling in "HIGH END RETAIL" stores for 18K yet?

I'm sorry your world is pinside, high end retail stores sell even Sterns for several thousand MORE than you pay from people selling right here.

Haven't you ever heard of people buying stuff for more than you know where to get it cheaper? Some people don't care money means nothing to them.

There is a high end place here where I live, they sold two POTC in the same week for $12,500 each. Now these are LE's btw, $12,500 EACH! They sold an Adams Family for $18,000 dollars. They sold a Magic Girl for $25,000.00. Before the new Wizards came out they sold one of those for $14,000 dollars.

I'm not making this up... they sell outdoor furniture, and I'm like damn don't they have the same thing at Target for 1/5th the price. Looks pretty close.

These stores offer a service and they charge you for it... delivery - set up - warranty. They charge you an additional 3 to 4k for these warranties, set up and delivery. Dude they have a rug hanging on the wall they asking 1 million dollars... mind you its been hanging on that wall for years but that's the price.

If you go to a LAMBO dealer, you'll pay 30% more for the car than if you buy it from an owner. A blue collar guy is going to search the web looking for the best deal the person who makes over a million dollars a year doesn't care.

I have no idea why you can't grip this concept.

#271 1 year ago

Hi, this was set up to help me in a country far far away from the USA make an informed decision on what to buy. We don’t get expo s to enjoy them first.

We will be lucky if we get 5 Willy Wonka pinballs total into people’s houses.
We get a lot of sterns as price wise they are cheap.

I like both and I could in turn buy both. But right now I don’t have the space or dollars to buy them both.

#272 1 year ago
Quoted from Cantabkiwi:

We will be lucky if we get 5 Willy Wonka pinballs total into people’s houses

I think you overestimate that ...

There is only one Dialed In here, for example.

3 hobbits?

And 0 POTC that I know of. Maybe there is one out there.

rd

#273 1 year ago

You properly be correct on 1 or 2.
The usual other buyers that have or once owned jpg s not rushing to order.

Maybe just me that will

#274 1 year ago

I will play both beforehand, Willy Wonka is allready playable on location at my retailer, will wait till BK is there.
But sinde I want to "fight" the game and love Steve Ritchies insults that's propably the way to go for me, even if Willy Wonka shoots better.
(Not to forget, Stern Pro pricepoint)

Oh and I found this picture I wanted to share!

Dq1Y9jNW4AI0QwA (resized).jpg

#275 1 year ago

Just put about 10 games on Black Knight last night.

Light show might be the best I’ve ever seen. Needs to be experienced in person. They knocked it out of the park there.

Most interesting playfield mech I’ve seen too. The flail registers hits, knocks the ball back at you, throws it up the ramp. The shield knocks the ball back at you and also lets you lock a ball behind it. You’re actually fighting the black Knight. That’s super cool.

Need to have good trapping skills on this one. Lots of post passing as nothing feeds the left flipper.

Right now the code is start a mode, add multiball to help finish modes, score the WAR hurry ups when you start them. Do that on repeat until you battle the black knight. Sprinkle in the classic BK mode, and that’s all there is that I saw.

Not sure if more modes are planned, but a little shallow feeling on first impressions.

#276 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Just put about 10 games on Black Knight last night.
Light show might be the best I’ve ever seen. Needs to be experienced in person. They knocked it out of the park there.
Most interesting playfield mech I’ve seen too. The flail registers hits, knocks the ball back at you, throws it up the ramp. The shield knocks the ball back at you and also lets you lock a ball behind it. You’re actually fighting the black Knight. That’s super cool.
Need to have good trapping skills on this one. Lots of post passing as nothing feeds the left flipper.
Right now the code is start a mode, add multiball to help finish modes, score the WAR hurry ups when you start them. Do that on repeat until you battle the black knight. Sprinkle in the classic BK mode, and that’s all there is that I saw.
Not sure if more modes are planned, but a little shallow feeling on first impressions.

Seems sterns new formula is moving to less code.... what's there is good but just needs a little more. That's how i felt with munsters also.

#277 1 year ago

For me, first I’m grateful we have two top (if not more) companies manufacturing amazing products and the competition to be top dog.

After watching both reviews and gameplay I’d pick bk.

I’m a Ritchie fan and actually not a fan of Lawlor designs.

Bk seem so much more like pinball to me. Me vs the machine. It’s fast and brutal.

However I reserve the chance to change opinion once
I play both.

#278 1 year ago

I played 8-10 games on each at the MGC. I really liked Willy Wonka and continued to want to play it. Black Knight did nothing for me, I played it a few more times just to make sure I wasn't missing something, but the game just didn't grab me. My vote is for Wonka (and it isn't even close).

#279 1 year ago
Quoted from Eric_S:

I played 8-10 games on each at the MGC. I really liked Willy Wonka and continued to want to play it. Black Knight did nothing for me, I played it a few more times just to make sure I wasn't missing something, but the game just didn't grab me. My vote is for Wonka (and it isn't even close).

Pretty much everything but the rules grabbed me for black knight. The theme integration is fantastic. The music and light show pull you right in.

#280 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Seems sterns new formula is moving to less code.... what's there is good but just needs a little more. That's how i felt with munsters also.

That does make sense. It will help games get complete code faster so less criticism of incomplete code. However, I don't think that will go over well with customers if every game has fairly simple rules. I don't think it's a bad thing but seems like most people expect deep rules from modern games.

#281 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Seems sterns new formula is moving to less code.... what's there is good but just needs a little more. That's how i felt with munsters also.

Sadly its yet another way to raise prices and giving costumers less. Hype the game for a month, reveal it, release a few code updates and then onto the next game.

#282 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Seems sterns new formula is moving to less code.... what's there is good but just needs a little more. That's how i felt with munsters also.

They explicitely said that Munsters will be a far more easy to approach game by ruleset after that beast Dwight has created with Star Wars.
Where is that a formula yet?!

#283 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

They explicitely said that Munsters will be a far more easy to approach game by ruleset after that beast Dwight has created with Star Wars.
Where is that a formula yet?!

My reply was for chuckwart who stated that bk looks to also be a more simple approach on code.... it was not a generalized statement about stern but more about the last 2 stern releases. Again i enjoyed munsters so it don't matter to me overall

#284 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

My reply was for chuckwart who stated that bk looks to also be a more simple approach on code.... it was not a generalized statement about stern but more about the last 2 stern releases. Again i enjoyed munsters so it don't matter to me overall

Ok, sorry. By "seems Sterns new formula" I supposed else...

#285 1 year ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Also another thing to consider is not the last minute changes from JJP but the major issues with early production runs. I have no interest in buying one of the early run machines. I will wait on the sidelines and watch. I learned my lesson watching failing WOZ light boards, faulty ramps on Hobbit, the list goes on. People who want the game now and have to have it-will be taking a risk.

Same with Stern!

5 months later
#286 8 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

If you're forcing me to, okay you broke my arm, Black Knight in 6 months will be worth about these prices: Pro $4500 Premium $5700 LE $6300
Willy Wonka will sell just like Dialed In or WOZ it will lose maybe $500 to $800 bucks. If we're talking money Willy Wonka is going to pummel the Knight.
If we're talking about tournament game anything Stern is going to pummel JJP.
Now that is a fair statement.

Well, here we are 6 months later and Black Knight is doing much better than you forecast. Pros are more like $5000, rather than $4500, so that's close, but a pretty typical drop for a used Stern pro. The Premiums are all still over $7000 asking though. I think that's probably because, the Premium has a little more going on with the catapult ball-lock and upper playfield; whereas the Pro is a little too barebones.

As far as the OP's question goes: for me, I love the style of the BK. As others have said, its you versus the machine, and its fast, and its brutal in a good way. I'm a mediocre player, so I know for me it will be a long time before I battle and defeat the Black Knight, as well as unlock the newly added retro Black Knight 2000 mode. I love the Thrash Metal music, the bad@ss medieval fantasy imagery, and the overall style of this pin. IMO BKSWOR is honestly the most "metal" pinball of all time, I even think it beats Iron Maiden and Metallica for that honor. And the LCD-display animations are among the best I've seen in a pinball to date. I love the callouts, and the music too. I could listen to them a lot longer than that "golden ticket" tune from Wonka. Plus, BK has the classic and cheesy "Black Knight 2000" theme song which I love in a Queen Flash-Gordon kinda way.

Wonka also looks nice, and would be much better for my family, but I don't actually think it has any more depth than BK. Its not a fan layout, so that's good, but I don't think it really has that much going on, especially when compared to JJPs other pins. I think hitting that Gobstopper over and over to get multiball will get old pretty quick. Soundwise, while I like it, I do find the Wonka music far more repetitive than BK's. Both pins' music pulls you in, but BK's just gets me going more.

I think the dream would be to have both, but my vote would be for the BK Premium. In the end, its just my kinda pin.

EDIT: I forgot to add; I fully expect the BK Prem and Wonka SE to settle down to about the same price on the secondary market. At least they will if current trends continue.

#287 8 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

I think hitting that Gobstopper over and over to get multiball will get old pretty quick.

Starting the same multiball over and over again gets bored on any machine

#288 8 months ago
Quoted from pascal-pinball:

Starting the same multiball over and over again gets bored on any machine

Agreed, and you can always make it harder in settings.

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