(Topic ID: 147199)

Black Knight switch matrix row 7 dead

By CanadianGamer

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

#1 8 years ago

Just helping a friend with his Black Knight. All switches on row 7 of switch matrix are not working, and report as closed in switch test. I've checked all involved switches for shorts, loose wires/diodes etc. and all seems good. I know it's always said that you need to disconnect one end of the switch diode to get a proper reading on it, and I only had time to do that with one diode before I had to leave and it tested fine. Now, I tested all the other diodes without disconnecting one end and they tested fine this way too, so is it absolutely crucial that I disconnect one end? Will I get false readings if I don't? I pulled his CPU and driver boards to bring them home and re-solder all the connector pins in the meantime, and check the resistors etc associated with the rows, all seems good there. I live 3 hours from his place but I'm going back in a week so I'm hoping I can resolve this issue for him next time around. Thanks for any help!

#2 8 years ago
Quoted from CanadianGamer:

I know it's always said that you need to disconnect one end of the switch diode to get a proper reading on it, and I only had time to do that with one diode before I had to leave and it tested fine.

Yes you hear that a lot, but it's not true. You can test a diode in serial circuits (like the switch matrix) without removing one lead.

In any case diodes would not be at the top of my list of possible causes. Has your friend installed led's recently with the game powered on? If so I would suspect the row circuitry has been blown out.

To determine whether it is a board or playfield issue do the following. Boot the game up, remove the row and column connectors and then jumper from row 7 to any of the columns and see if you get a switch closure indication.

#3 8 years ago

Thanks Terry, he does have LED's installed but I'm not sure if the power was on or not, I wouldn't think so but definitely will check. I've never heard of this happening before so thanks, I will check that next week and see what happens. Which components would be blown if that was the case? IC16, 4049? Maybe the PIA IC11 6821?

#4 8 years ago

Typically the component closest to the short will sacrifice itself and save the other components.

What I see a lot on the led's is that people jam the bayonet type into the socket without first aligning the pins. That pushes the bracket back and something shorts. It happens immediately to the giveaway is "I just installed led's and now the switch matrix doesn't work.?

If left alone the switch matrix circuitry will seldom go bad. It's almost always a case of high voltage being shorted to it.

#5 8 years ago

The resistors were the first in line with row 7 and they're fine, and I tried to pull the little .01 capacitors and test them but got a 0.0 reading with my DMD set to 20k ohms, not sure how else to test them. I tried a couple of the other same type capacitors to see if my 0 reading was correct but they measured the same, 0. I know they can't all be bad because it's only row 7 giving me problems. Next in line I guess is the 6810 IC but before I go pulling it out to replace it I'll wait till I get back to the machine and do the jumper test between the row and columns. I wish I had a better way to test those wee capacitors, so if there is a way to do it properly with a DMM I'd love to hear it, thanks for all the help!

I just hope that touching up the solder on the connectors was actually the problem, but not holding my breath lol.

#6 8 years ago

If you have a logic probe I can give more specific advice.

#7 8 years ago

Thanks terryb, but I don't have one yet, it's on the list. I'll see if I can find one in town tomorrow but I'll likely have to order one in (small town woes).

#8 8 years ago

Do the test I mentioned above and then go from there.

This will get you started on logic probes.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Do the test I mentioned above and then go from there.
This will get you started on logic probes.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes

Many thanks!

1 week later
#10 8 years ago

Sorry it took so long to get back with my results, so here is what happened.

I touched up the solder on the connector pins and tested the resistors in line with Row 7 switches, seemed fine.
I installed the boards back in the game, turned it on and removed 2J2 and 2J3 and went into switch test. All row 7 switches were still showing as activated even with connectors out.
I connected the connectors again and still the same thing, switches weren't working on Row 7.
I wiggled a few connectors, played with this and that, and I'm not sure what did it but suddenly the switches started working, all except for one of the drop target switches in Row 7.
I installed a new diode on the drop target switch and now it is working as well, so all switches now operational.

I don't know why, and I'm sure it'll fail again whatever it was, but it works for now. Could it have been that one diode all along? Could there be an intermittent problem with a chip on the board or something?

#11 8 years ago

i would replace the two switch matrix IDC female plugs with trifurcon female connectors. has the 40 pin interconnector ever been changed? has the driver board been checked for cracked solder connections on the male pins?

#12 8 years ago

Thanks, I am going to change the switch connectors as soon as I have time to be certain they're not playing a part in this. The 40 pin connector has not been changed. I tried to separate the 40pin connector but it was so tight that I decided to leave it together rather than risk damaging anything in the process.
I did go over all the solder joints on the male pins too with new solder, including the 40 pin connector.

I'm just wondering why those switches in Row 7 still showed as being closed when the connectors weren't attached? Then miraculously started working again, not sure what I did to cause that if anything.

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from CanadianGamer:

All row 7 switches were still showing as activated even with connectors out.

This would indicate a board problem. If any of the row circuitry is in sockets I would reseat the chips. Also check the board for battery damage.

Quoted from CanadianGamer:

I installed a new diode on the drop target switch and now it

Quoted from CanadianGamer:

Could it have been that one diode all along?

Most likely not, but you never know with the switch matrix.

Keep your fingers crossed.

#14 8 years ago

The chips aren't socketed and there is no battery damage at all, the board is clean. I will leave it as is for now and see how it goes, but sounds like new chips and sockets could be something to try if it fails again? Fingers are crossed Thanks again for the help!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 9.00
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
2,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Vista, CA
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 53.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Newcastle, OK
From: $ 30.00
$ 959.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 59.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 135.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
 
From: $ 5.75
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 115.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
 
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
 
$ 1,059.00
From: $ 26.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
 
$ 65.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 17.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 129.00
Cabinet Parts
Bob's Pinball Stuff
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-knight-switch-matrix-row-7-dead and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.