Black Knight Sound Woes

I have a Black Knight that has just been an absolute CURSE. I have utterly lost my ass on this one, but that is ok, because it is beautiful!

However, I am just down to a couple of issues and the sound one, is driving me batty. 99 times out of a 100, when you turn it on, it has no sound. None at all. Sometimes it will have perfect sound when turned on. If you leave it on... sometimes the sound will randomly start and stop. Usually the sound works properly, when it works. But sometimes it will only play that... waiting for the ball to be launched sound. waw waw waw waw waw.... whatever.

Initially I suspected caps, so I ordered a rebuild kit for the sound card. That made no difference. Then after more odd issues with the pin, I sent ALL the boards off to Ed Mosher. he rebuilt and tested everything and sent it back to me. The sound worked!!! For one damned day. Now I am right back to random moments of of audio.

Anyone have any thoughts before I give up and just order a new sound and speech board for it from PinballPCB?

#2 3 years ago

MDM

Black_Knight

Vertigo

Blue Ridge, GA

9y 115K 3,065 109 33

Speaker wire or potentiometer?

Connectors on your wiring

Did you send your ribbon cable too when he tested it?

#3 3 years ago

HWK

Hawk007

Pinside member

If the power supply is fine and tests in spec......Sounds like connectors to me. Remove and replace the connectors and see if it changes or gets better . If so you found your culprit.
more than likely connectors as you had someone go through the board set already and it worked upon install . Points to connection to me.
Good luck fellow pinballer

#4 3 years ago

HWK

Hawk007

Pinside member

get a new ribbon cable at the very least. It needs it and they are cheap.

#5 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

When I sent it, I sent the full board set, ribbon cable included. I know it isn't the Pot. I replaced it. The wiring checks out. I'll jumper out the connectors and see if that makes any difference. a new Ribbon cable might be a good idea, but it doesn't seem to explain the utter randomness. The machine sitting idle now, for an hour. Sound has come on twice in that time, for less than a minute each time.

#6 3 years ago

HWK

Hawk007

Pinside member

The ribbon cables are crucial to proper operation. Also check if your game has a good connection to the transformer etc. If flaky it will act possessed. lol
Lets check the stuff you did not send him and replace the ribbon cable as they are cheap.

#7 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

I don't suppose you know who sells those cables? I can't seem to find anyone, except an old Ebay auction listing.

#8 3 years ago

HWK

Hawk007

Pinside member

yes John at Johns jukes sells them Flippers.com

BUT They are used all the time in computers. A pc shop close to you could snap one together for you quite easily.

#9 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

I am aware it is a standard cable, but the connection at the speech card is not a standard connection. It solders onto the board.
And Thank you!!

#10 3 years ago

???

pindel

Pinside member

12y 53,300 692 1

OP
Quoted from RandyW:
I am aware it is a standard cable, but the connection at the speech card is not a standard connection. It solders onto the board.
And Thank you!!

cable would be my guess. I went through a bunch of those boards and had the same issue. You are better off to just get the daughter card/board i guess. Personally I would get the new swemmer board. They sell for 185 and then sell your old one for a small difference.

IMG_2328 (1) (resized).jpgIMG_9953 (resized).jpg

#11 3 years ago

HWK

Hawk007

Pinside member

seat and reseat the cable many many times. It may clean up and work fine. Unless the cable itself has given up or is too dirty. I forgot that you need to send that board to john to recable. Doh.
Should be able to get it to work with the reseating method. But plan to get a new cable when you can.
Cheers

#12 3 years ago

HWK

Hawk007

Pinside member

oh yea if you cannot solder a new cable in. John at flippers.com can if you cannot ....BUT most places can put a new end on the existing soldered in cable and you are good to go. Its only a giant idc connector after all. Should be able to get at least one more use out of original cable if still ductile and undamaged.
Cheers!

#13 3 years ago

JON

Schwaggs

Gameroom Mods

10y 105K 4,760 10

Sounds like the CPU is not starting/running reliably. I would replace all the IC sockets on the main and voice boards. Those are all single swipe sockets and can wear out after all this time.

#14 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

Quoted from Schwaggs:
Sounds like the CPU is not starting/running reliably. I would replace all the IC sockets on the main and voice boards. Those are all single swipe sockets and can wear out after all this time.

The CPU is working fine, as the game boots and plays. Also, as stated in the first post.. every board was sent off and repaired. I have ordered a new speech board from PinballPCB, but it will likely be a while before it arrives. In the meantime, I will keep chasing down the other issues.

#15 3 years ago

CRD

chad

Game Guy

11y 140K 15,103 9 5

OP
Quoted from RandyW:
%
The CPU is working fine, as the game boots and plays. Also, as stated in the first post.. every board was sent off and repaired. I have ordered a new speech board from PinballPCB, but it will likely be a while before it arrives. In the meantime, I will keep chasing down the other issues.

I think Schwaggs is referring to the cpu on thesound board itself.?

#16 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

Repin this 2nd from the left, 4 pin connector (3 pins used, 1 key), to the sound board. It has been a source of sound cutting out or not working at all in 2 BK, Solar Fire, and Alien Poker that I had worked on the past 2 years. Make sure the bare wire does not have any broken strands on the ends of the wires. Be sure to twist the bare wire before crimping each of the 3 pins. This cable goes down to the pot in the lower cabinet.

It may be worth checking the connections at the pot in the cabinet as well.

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#17 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

Quoted from chad:
I think Schwaggs is referring to the cpu on thesound board itself.?

Ah ok, That makes sense. My bad

PinballManiac40 Thank you! I will give that a shot tonight.

#18 3 years ago

JON

Schwaggs

Gameroom Mods

10y 105K 4,760 10

Quoted from chad:
I think Schwaggs is referring to the cpu on thesound board itself.?

That is what I meant, thanks.

OP
Quoted from RandyW:
%
The CPU is working fine, as the game boots and plays. Also, as stated in the first post.. every board was sent off and repaired. I have ordered a new speech board from PinballPCB, but it will likely be a while before it arrives. In the meantime, I will keep chasing down the other issues.

The sound board is it's own computer. The program to run the computer is stored in the ROM chips. If the connection to the ROM chips is flakey, the computer can stop or not start at all.

If you don't want to have the sockets replaced, you can try reseating the ROM chips on the sound and voice boards. Sometimes that improves the connection enough to get the board to run.

#19 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

Quoted from Schwaggs:
That is what I meant, thanks.

The sound board is it's own computer. The program to run the computer is stored in the ROM chips. If the connection to the ROM chips is flakey, the computer can stop or not start at all.
If you don't want to have the sockets replaced, you can try reseating the ROM chips on the sound and voice boards. Sometimes that improves the connection enough to get the board to run.

Gotcha, my bad. I misunderstood. Supposedly, the sound board and the speech board worked fine for Ed Mosher, when he rebuilt everything. I have a new speech board coming, to test with. I tried repinning the connector that PinballManiac40 mentioned. That made no difference. One thing that happened today, that may or may not give a clue... The sound came on, after being on for an hour, with no sound.. and as soon as it did, the MPU crashed. Odd, since that has never happened before. *Edit*& it has happened twice now.

Other than that, the only issue I have left, is the flippers seem weak. I can make it up all the ramps, but only from a rolling ball. I cannot cradle the ball and make it up a ramp. Table is at it's lowest incline. I have replaced the EOS switches, rebuilt the flippers.. they needed it anyway, checked the connectors, all looks good. I have not replaced the flipper switches yet. I haven't found them in stock anywhere, but they don't look too bad.

#20 3 years ago

CRD

chad

Game Guy

11y 140K 15,103 9 5

OP
Quoted from RandyW:
Gotcha, my bad. I misunderstood. Supposedly, the sound board and the speech board worked fine for Ed Mosher, when he rebuilt everything. I have a new speech board coming, to test with. I tried repinning the connector that pinballmaniac40 mentioned. That made no difference. One thing that happened today, that may or may not give a clue... The sound came on, after being on for an hour, with no sound.. and as soon as it did, the MPU crashed. Odd, since that has never happened before. *Edit*& it has happened twice now.
Other than that, the only issue I have left, is the flippers seem weak. I can make it up all the ramps, but only from a rolling ball. I cannot cradle the ball and make it up a ramp. Table is at it's lowest incline. I have replaced the EOS switches, rebuilt the flippers.. they needed it anyway, checked the connectors, all looks good. I have not replaced the flipper switches yet. I haven't found them in stock anywhere, but they don't look too bad.

For the cabinet switches, try filing them . Get them smooth and shiny forf better contact. Also a couple light passes of the file on the new eos as they sometimes have a film on them.

#21 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

The Speech card, as suspected did not fix the issue. So I have a replacement sound card coming. Once I get it working, I can work on repairing the original card. Also, the flippers seem to be fixed. I repinned the wires in the black plug, which seemed to help.

1 week later

#22 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW

So the mystery deepens.

I now have a new speech card, new ide cable and a new sound card, with new roms, from Pinballpcb. If I press the test button on the sound card, I have voices!!! This is new.

But still no sound in the game???? What the heck?

#23 3 years ago

237

slochar

Pinside member

7y 86,550 6,862

PIA on mpu board might be bad that's what controls the sound (and commas on displays through a different port)

#24 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 234K 17,615 104

Still sounds like you have some flaky wired connections to some of the boards.

Did you repin all the connectors to the sound board?

Were all the board headers changed when the boards were sent out? That would be part of rebuilding of the boards. Not sure if everyone does it as part of their board repair.

#25 3 years ago

RJW

RandyW