(Topic ID: 239717)

Black Knight Sound Issue

By ChicagoPinReplay

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by chad
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_20190813_235224136 (resized).jpg
williams-pinball-system-7-cpu-mpu-board-5764_1_e92695123b53b781c00fbdc4e5f996b0 (resized).jpg

#1 3 years ago

Hello everyone,

I just recently picked up a Black Knight project and have a issue with the background sound/attract mode sounds. I have never owned this table but played it in the past and what I am hearing does not sound right. So the speach and all of the other sounds seem to work fine (drops, multiball, spinner etc..). The problem is during gameplay there is no background sound whatsoever, despite it being turned on in the options setting. The other issue is that the noises it makes during attract mode does not sound right at all. Here is a short video of what it sounds like in attract mode:

Not sure if the missing background sound during gameplay and the odd attract mode sound are related. Thanks for your help in advance!

#2 3 years ago

That's not right at all. Time to test the sound board inputs, one is probably missing due to either cracked header, or a bad 4069.

The PIA on the MPU board could be bad as well.

Or the sound rom is wrong although I doubt that.

#3 3 years ago

Check Function 39 in the settings. 01 = background sounds, 00 = no background sounds

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from bkxdream:

Check Function 39 in the settings. 01 = background sounds, 00 = no background sounds

I checked that first and unfortunately it is set to have background sound on. Option 39 is set to 01. Appreciate the recommendation though! Based in the noises it is making in attract mode it looks like there is a bigger issue.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

That's not right at all. Time to test the sound board inputs, one is probably missing due to either cracked header, or a bad 4069.
The PIA on the MPU board could be bad as well.
Or the sound rom is wrong although I doubt that.

Ok I will check it out this evening and report back. Thanks!

4 months later
#6 2 years ago

Folliwing as I have the same issue at hand.

#7 2 years ago

Some of the sounds in williams games are cyclic. That is, the sound card is told once to play a sound and then the sound card plays it over and over until its told not to. When the sound increases in speed/intensity like that its because the the sound card has been told once again to play the same sound.

What im saying here is that there is a communication problem between the MPU board and the sound card.

It could also be a problem entirely on the sound card. Disconnect 10J3 on the sound card or 1J8 on the MPU board and turn on the game. if the sound problem goes away the problem is NOT on the sound card.

You can also try these test ROMs: http://pincoder.ca They will help you track down problems with your entire machine. The sound test ROM will be the most use to you.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Some of the sounds in williams games are cyclic. That is, the sound card is told once to play a sound and then the sound card plays it over and over until its told not to. When the sound increases in speed/intensity like that its because the the sound card has been told once again to play the same sound.
What im saying here is that there is a communication problem between the MPU board and the sound card.
It could also be a problem entirely on the sound card. Disconnect 10J3 on the sound card or 1J8 on the MPU board and turn on the game. if the sound problem goes away the problem is NOT on the sound card.
You can also try these test ROMs: http://pincoder.ca They will help you track down problems with your entire machine. The sound test ROM will be the most use to you.

Just quickly wanted to conduct your test of unplugging 10J3. Unplugged and turned the game on. No sounds or speech at all now. So what you are suggesting based on this is that the issue is not with the sound card? Like I said I have speech and other in game sounds. Just no background sound in play and then there is that repeating tone in attract mode.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from ChicagoPinReplay:

Just quickly wanted to conduct your test of unplugging 10J3. Unplugged and turned the game on. No sounds or speech at all now. So what you are suggesting based on this is that the issue is not with the sound card? Like I said I have speech and other in game sounds. Just no background sound in play and then there is that repeating tone in attract mode.

OK good.. the wires on 10J3 are used to instruct the sound card to play a sound. With no signals getting to the card it does like it should and not play ANY sounds. The fact that when connected you have sound playing, albeit the WRONG sounds at the wrong time means the signals to the card are jumbled.

Each of those wires represent a binary digit (ground or no ground). To get the sound card to play a sound, the MPU board grounds a specific combination of those wires momentarily and then un-grounds them.

If you download the pincoder ROMS and look at the instructions for the sound test you'll have a better picture of how it works. Basically, I think one or more of those wires to the sound card are either stuck on ground, or are not grounding at all. This is what produces the incorrect sounds.

So, you just need to test each of those wires to see if they operate correctly. The pincoder sound ROM will help you troubleshoot that.

If you dont have a chip and programmer, you can start by testing each of those wires to see if they're stuck on ground. Turn the game on and go into audit mode (so you know that no sounds are supposed to be playing) and then check for ground on each of the wires. None of them should be grounded. That will at least give you half of the picture.

To reliably test the other half (whether they go to ground when they're supposed to) you will need to run the pincoder sound ROM. It is possible that you could also do this running the built-in solenoid diagnostic (you can on system 3-6a). I'm just not sure the solenoid test on a system 7 can activate sounds or not.. (I no longer have my black knight).

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from ChicagoPinReplay:

Just quickly wanted to conduct your test of unplugging 10J3. Unplugged and turned the game on. No sounds or speech at all now. So what you are suggesting based on this is that the issue is not with the sound card? Like I said I have speech and other in game sounds. Just no background sound in play and then there is that repeating tone in attract mode.

Corrupt PIA check all sounds signals controlled by IC 36
Cpu connector IJ8 sound signal output.

There are two additional signal wires on plug Ij8 from PIA 36 (Solid Purple & Brown with white dashes) that control all commas on the displays.

williams-pinball-system-7-cpu-mpu-board-5764_1_e92695123b53b781c00fbdc4e5f996b0 (resized).jpg
#11 2 years ago
Quoted from pincoder:

OK good.. the wires on 10J3 are used to instruct the sound card to play a sound. With no signals getting to the card it does like it should and not play ANY sounds. The fact that when connected you have sound playing, albeit the WRONG sounds at the wrong time means the signals to the card are jumbled.
Each of those wires represent a binary digit (ground or no ground). To get the sound card to play a sound, the MPU board grounds a specific combination of those wires momentarily and then un-grounds them.
If you download the pincoder ROMS and look at the instructions for the sound test you'll have a better picture of how it works. Basically, I think one or more of those wires to the sound card are either stuck on ground, or are not grounding at all. This is what produces the incorrect sounds.
So, you just need to test each of those wires to see if they operate correctly. The pincoder sound ROM will help you troubleshoot that.
If you dont have a chip and programmer, you can start by testing each of those wires to see if they're stuck on ground. Turn the game on and go into audit mode (so you know that no sounds are supposed to be playing) and then check for ground on each of the wires. None of them should be grounded. That will at least give you half of the picture.
To reliably test the other half (whether they go to ground when they're supposed to) you will need to run the pincoder sound ROM. It is possible that you could also do this running the built-in solenoid diagnostic (you can on system 3-6a). I'm just not sure the solenoid test on a system 7 can activate sounds or not.. (I no longer have my black knight).

Thank you for the recommendations! I will start with the quick ground test and escalate from there.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from PINTEC:

Corrupt PIA check all sounds signals controlled by IC 36
Cpu connector IJ8 sound signal output.
There are two additional signal wires on plug Ij8 from PIA 36 (Solid Purple & Brown with white dashes) that control all commas on the displays.[quoted image]

Interesting note on the commas on the displays that are controlled by IC 36. Never noticed until you mentioned it, but none of my displays are showing commas. What is the best means of checking the signals controlled by IC 36? A logic probe?

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from ChicagoPinReplay:

Interesting note on the commas on the displays that are controlled by IC 36. Never noticed until you mentioned it, but none of my displays are showing commas. What is the best means of checking the signals controlled by IC 36? A logic probe?

What I have found in the past were cold solder joints on the connectors top right 3 . Mpu board

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from ChicagoPinReplay:

Interesting note on the commas on the displays that are controlled by IC 36. Never noticed until you mentioned it, but none of my displays are showing commas. What is the best means of checking the signals controlled by IC 36? A logic probe?

Pointing to a failed PIA 36
Comma Outputs:
Check the signals for movement with a Logic Probe in game over mode the signal will move high and low while switching between back and forth to high score to date 2,500,000

#15 2 years ago

Just wanted to release an update. I replaced PIA 36 with a spare chip I had laying around and my sound problems have been resolved! My BK is operating as it should. Really appreciate the help everyone!

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from ChicagoPinReplay:

Just wanted to release an update. I replaced PIA 36 with a spare chip I had laying around and my sound problems have been resolved! My BK is operating as it should. Really appreciate the help everyone!

Still no commas:
Change IC 14 on the Master display board which has nothing to do but control switching the commas off and on.
This chip may have took out the PIA when it quit.

IMG_20190813_235224136 (resized).jpg
#17 2 years ago

I , too, have resolved my sound issue as well. My mpu had cold solders all over. I reflowed IC36 and all headers. Left the game on for 3 hours and no crazy sounds. I initially thought I had reflowed everything when I changed cmos to nvram...

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
From: $ 5.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
From: $ 77.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
$ 59.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
$ 1,059.00
$ 125.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
$ 17.00
$ 45.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
From: $ 24.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member!