(Topic ID: 143891)

Black Knight, RESOLVED (flipper, and row issue)

By ickus305

8 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by ickus305
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

Flipper issue is solved, Now have Row 2 Switch Row issue to solve.

My Black Knight was having issues with the lower flippers not being very strong. The linkage was badly worn. So I got a rebuild kit, replace the link, the bushing, the coil sleeve, the spring and the EOS switch, as well as put in the rubber stopper.
With the rubber stopper in place it does not give the flipper very much throw at all. with out the rubber stopper seems to give it normal throw.
But regardless of the stopper being in out not, the flipper wants to shutter when in hold and the coil buzzes. When the flipper does hold, when the ball hits it, it throws it back up. Is this a coil stop issue? Mean I need to replace the entire flipper mechanism, because the coil stop is built in?

The upper flippers have no issue and I made sure to check and clean the cabinet switches after the problem the first time and I also made sure the EOS switches are gaped correctly. (I have rebuilt bally and stern flippers so I am familiar with the process.)

#2 8 years ago

Did you replace the plunger too?

Was the link the correct length from hole-center to hole-center?

#3 8 years ago

I replaced the plunger also. The links are the same size center to center. I thought that could be issue and check already.

I was able to find someone else posting of the same issue. Definitely looks like the coil stop is the issue (because my bracket has the integrated stop.) So from not replacing the stop the bad end is messing up the hold. Unless it is something else entirely, but I put the old link back in and can play, just have some slop in the flippers (but new sleeves and bushings are an improvement for now.) I will order some new brackets which will have new coil stops, and see if that fixes the issue (and yes I will put new coil sleeves into the coils again when I swap the plungers).

#4 8 years ago

I rebuilt my BK flippers as well and got a bit of what you're reporting, but they've broken in a bit better and don't cause any significant issues. I also put new rubber stoppers in. All of my shots are consistent and easy to make, so I have no negative to report there.

I did notice the springs that came with the rebuild kit were longer than what I took out and made me question if they are the cause of the flipper "shutter" (perhaps causing slightly less throw or more tension...not sure).

My coil stops looked to be rather good.

#5 8 years ago

I had exactly the same problem with my Firepower and did as you are about to do - renewed all flipper parts including new baseplates but still had the same problem.

It turned out that the plastic link attached to the plunger was preventing the plunger pulling all the way into the coil. You can see where the shoulder of the plastic link has been marked by hitting the coil sleeve.

PB130005.JPGPB130005.JPG

PB130006.JPGPB130006.JPG

I ended up cutting a shoulder off the plastic link in line with the plunger to allow the plunger to pull fully into the coil. (sorry, no after pics).

What's annoying is that the flipper re-build kit was supposed to be specifically for Firepower and that era of pin.

Try this before ordering any new parts.

#6 8 years ago

I ran into a similar problem with the rubber stop on my Laser Cue. After my flipper rebuild, the flippers didn't have the proper travel. I took out the rubber stoppers, and everything is fine.

Looking back, my BK was the same way.

I think Williams started installing the rubber stops on system 11 pins. It seems anything before that, the rubber stopper shouldn't be installed...even though the hole is in the flipper bracket.

This isn't fact...just my opinion.

#7 8 years ago

I cut the rubber stop off before I modified the plastic link and it didn't seem to make any difference. YMMV obviously.

#8 8 years ago

Well, I overhauled the flippers and the brackets. Also, my old brackets where a little beat up, so I didn't mind a full overhaul (spare parts are always appreciated). Everything worked great. Then the left lower flipper stopped working, I did a bit of testing and noticed at the coil, it was not getting power. Assumed a broken wire, starting tracing the wire, turned the machine back on to see if I could get intermittent power possibly.

Now, the machine will start a game, speak the start phrase, I have a few lights that will work. The backglass lights shut off after pressing the start button, no scoring occurs, the drop targets won't stand back up, the flippers are all out, and when the ball drains, it resets the targets, and moves to the next ball (ball 2, etc) with a score of 00 showing.

This seems extremely odd and strange. I tested the CPU and it shows a clean test, and I can't find any blown fuses, I also checked all of the harnesses etc.

#9 8 years ago

Ok, so after sleeping on it, and coming back to it.
I have figured out I have two issues. lower left flipper still now working. 2nd row of switches all stuck on.

I had the backglass off so I missed that the reason for the no flippers or coils working was because the machine is stuck in tilt. I ran all tests, and on the switch test found row 2 are all locked on. Switch 2 ball roll tilt, 10 left magnet button, 18 center ball ramp target, 26 lower left 3 bank target, 34 top left 3 bank center target, 42 lockup trough center.
The manual says to check for a short to ground on the row wire. Would this be someplace on the physical wire or should I expect it on the board?

As for the flipper, should I go back to my initial assumption that it is a broken wire and run a new wire from the coil to the board? the other 3 flippers all work fine (I was able to use them during the solenoid and the switch test), and I do not test any power at the flipper.

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from ickus305:

The manual says to check for a short to ground on the row wire. Would this be someplace on the physical wire or should I expect it on the board?

On the wire.

Remove the row connector and see if the error goes away. This will narrow it down to playfield wiring or the board.

Quoted from ickus305:

and I do not test any power at the flipper

The power is daisy-chained from one solenoid to another. So it's likely the wire is broken at one of the other coil lugs and not making it to the flipper coil. Or with game off, check for continuity from that row to ground (row connector removed).

#11 8 years ago

Removed the Row 2 connector, and it won't start a game at all. Checked the switched test and it only shows stuck switches for the ball trough switches where the balls are. Does this mean the board is likely ok, and someplace along the row 2 line, I have a short to ground and I am going to need to trace and find and remove? Or what is the best way to figure out the issue

For the Flipper, I found the daisy chain issue and re-attached the lose connection. and now the flipper works great! YAY, one problem solved, another problem now to figure out......

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from ickus305:

Does this mean the board is likely ok, and someplace along the row 2 line, I have a short to ground and I am going to need to trace and find and remove? Or what is the best way to figure out the issue

Yes. Check continuity from the row 2 wire to ground. If there is then visually inspect each switch in that row and see if a diode lead or wire is touching ground. Does black knight have lane change switches on the flipper? If so are they in the row that is now showing a ground short?

#13 8 years ago

FIXED.

Thank you everyone for your time and your help.

The row issue was such a simple thing. Some had put too long of a screw to hold the diode for the ceneter ball trough. so when I noticed it was loose and tightened it, I was shorting it to the trough. loosened screw and everything works now. So I replaced with a smaller screw and everything is back to normal.

Again thank you for the help.

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