(Topic ID: 172561)

Black knight problems


By DEN

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by DEN
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

Hi guys.
Just got a black knight williams 1980.
Its got alot of problems, it was a dumpster pin, i got it for free, really wanna save it. No pinball machine deserves a dumpster!!

Well problem nr one. Look at link.

Lower right flipper flips like crazy. Did clear the leafswitch at right button, did not help.
Where to look next??

#2 3 years ago

Okey. Problem isolated a little.

I have swiched 2cabels, lower left and right flipperciols. STILL right lower flipper flicker as on the video.

Now this tells me, no board problems. No switchleaf problem. I must something with the coil. Am i right??

#3 3 years ago

Yes, the flipper coil has two windings. One winding is a short thicker wire that's used to thrust the ball, the 2nd winding is a long thiner wire that gets switched on when the End of Stroke switch opens and it holds the flipper up.
Your flipper coil hold winding has an open circuit which is causing the flipper to chatter.

Look at the 3 terminals on the flipper coil and see if either end of the thin wire has broken off the terminal.

#4 3 years ago

Aaaaand you are a genius, thank you.
It was middle log that was loose. Little solderjob, and now it flips great.

Thanks

#5 3 years ago

Okey. Problem nr two.

Link to video.

Displayes are dead. I can only see dots. More points scored, the dot moves. Same problem on all displayes.
Where too look now

Is just reseated all gray cabels on displayes. Dident help.

#6 3 years ago

Did you run the display test from the coin door switches and get the same result?

Did you reseat the wiring on the MPU board? IJ5, IJ6 and IJ7 connectors on the top of the MPU board.

Check the voltage at the display board side of the connector. It should be 100V.

Links to schematics can be found here: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=310

#7 3 years ago

Yes on display test all displayes , , light up only.

This means 100v is present.

Yes dust did reseat all plugs on mpu and power board. Seems like they were never off before.

Can you bee more precise where you mean i should check for 100v??

#8 3 years ago

Since you have power there, it probably isn't the issue. But I'd check the power at the connector that provides power to the displays:

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#9 3 years ago

Okey. Did check. I unplugged it and measured. 5v is right amount.
Both 100v and -100v is 107v/-100v is this okey??

Now i am thinking the problem could bee in the ic's on the displayboard. How doo i check them?

#10 3 years ago

The easiest way is to swap it out with another one, that's what I do at this point

If you have a logic reader and the know-how then you can figure it out.

Can you clarify this -

Quoted from DEN:Yes on display test all displayes , , light up only.

Do the displays cycle through the #'s or do you just get the dot you mentioned earlier.

I have spares and there are plenty of folks in the US that can repair these boards, but not sure how easy this is in Europe.

By the way my wife and I wwere in Copenhagen in October and had a great weekend. Lots of good beer. Went to Tivoli and loved Vertigo!

#11 3 years ago

The likelyhood that it's on the individual display boards is low, since they're all doing the same thing, right? It's probably the display controller board.. and something that is common to all the displays.. I gotta go look at the schematic..

#12 3 years ago

OK.. Looking at the schematics, since it seems to be ALL five displays (4 scores, plus credit/ball) it is likely something that is in common to all of them.. Try reseating/checking the bottom middle cable on the master display board (4J7) to the left of the power connector someone circled in the picture above.. Also.. on the CPU board try reseating PIA I (IC 18, part number 6820 or 6821). This chip seems to control all of the segments EXCEPT for the comma, which would make sense. You could swap IC18 with IC36 right above it and see if the symptom changes. The one above (IC36) controls the sound and the commas on the displays. If the trouble moves and you have displays but no sound then you have a bad 6821. For what it's worth, 6821 can be used in place of a 6820 They're apparently the same except the 6820 can't drive as much current. If the trouble doesn't move, then maybe there's an address decoding problem on IC18? IC18 also controls the 7 segment diagnostic display on the CPU board, so if you dont get anything showing on the diagnostic digit, then you have a clue there that it's probably IC18, or the address decoding for that chip. Do you have a logic probe? Even something like this would help:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5D52NZ9151

If you can see with a logic probe whether pins 2-17 on IC18 are strobing (counting across the bottom of the chip from left to right starting pin 1 on the bottom left corner) that would help.

Troubleshooting this stuff can be fun!

#13 3 years ago

Oh.. and in case you haven't found it, and dont have a manual.. I was too lazy to go downstairs and get my hardcopy, but I found this online:
http://gamearchive.askey.org/Pinball/Manufacturers/Williams/pdfs/sys7.pdf

#14 3 years ago

Well my ic18 is solderd.

I replaced one ic called 6808p. My soundboard had the same. Did not help.

So you mean my problem is on this ic on my mou board??

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#15 3 years ago

Have you replaced the male and female pins on the 40-pin interconnect between driver board and cpu boards? I know lots of problems stem from that connector. Not sure if it'll fix your display issue, but certainly couldn't hurt to change out those connectors, especially if they're original...

#16 3 years ago

They have been replaced few years ago along with some other parts. Caps the row thats darkred colored.

#17 3 years ago

Only , , on all displayes ☠️

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#18 3 years ago

I'd go with Steve's advice above, then. Get a logic probe and check U18 per his instructions.

#19 3 years ago

Dont know anything about logicprobe sorry.
My u18 is soldered. Its not calles 6820/6821.

I have an old lord jungle at storage, dont know condition, never checked it. But can i use mpu board from that pinball?

#20 3 years ago

Yes all the boards are the same only the game roms are different.

you can start by swapping the display board test and if you get the same result then the mpu/driver boards. The machine will boot and 'operate' with the JL roms so no need to switch them out until you figure out whats going on.

#21 3 years ago

Cool. No need for switching roms?? Will try it this weekend

#22 3 years ago

No you don't have to swap them out to boot the machine. It wont work properly, but will go into attract mode, run the tests and start a game. I was only suggesting this to save a little time if you are poking around testing various components.

Try your display card by itself first, then the MPU. I'd also keep the MPU/Driver boards together, no reason to separate them and risk any damage or wear.

If you do find its the MPU and want to swap the roms, you only need to swap the 2 game roms and not the Flipper roms. The flipper roms are actually the 'OS' for the machine and should be the same version for both of these games. Be very careful with the legs and take a picture to make sure you put them back in the right position.

#23 3 years ago

Okey. So i olny move the left rom and the roght bottom rom. Flipperrom 1 and 2 is the same??
Thanks for reallt nice info

#24 3 years ago

Recieved pic of my junglelord. (Its on storage) bought unseen.

Look at this pic!!!!

Seller told me it played fine. Hmmmmm looks pretty hacked. Look at the battery!!!!

Shitty seller!

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#25 3 years ago
Quoted from DEN:

Recieved pic of my junglelord. (Its on storage) bought unseen.
Look at this pic!!!!
Seller told me it played fine. Hmmmmm looks pretty hacked. Look at the battery!!!!
Shitty seller!

Omg. Forget the battery, look at the 40 "wire" connector.

#26 3 years ago

And burned connectors at psu board.

Another question. Just turned my BK on. Started new game. Ball pops up, dropdowntargets gets pushed up, but all four flippers are dead. Turned off and on. Still the same. Does flippers have there own fuse somewhere?

#27 3 years ago

Okey. At label it says flipperciols. That fuse is not blown. Black inside. Looks allmost blown but its not. 16 amp.

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#28 3 years ago

I don't think 16 amp is right.

#29 3 years ago

Okey i pushed leafs for magnets and now all flippers works percekt

Wierd but nice

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#30 3 years ago

Okey GREAT PROGRES ON DISPLAYS.
Look at picture. When i really gentley toutch those two ICs displays works. They flicker. When i press down both ICs all displayes works great.

I just resoldered ICs bus that dident help. Now i will try resolder topside on ics

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#31 3 years ago

Hmmmm solder did not help.
Now i have to gentley toutch both ics and i works. When i let go my finger all numbers goes off again.

#32 3 years ago

Update. When i toutch lower right ic numbers appear again. Some only blinking numbers and sometime solid. Have not soldered this last ic. Will look at it tomorrow. Allmost midnight in Denmark.

Anyone tryed this before??

#33 3 years ago

i think you have broken trace or bad grounds on that board

#34 3 years ago

Broken trace, reflow the whole ic.

#35 3 years ago

Where does it get ground from?? Its screwed on with 4 bolts but cant see any groundattecment to the board anywhere.
Its got plastic holders/spacers at the back

#36 3 years ago

The board is on a wooden panel, so no way to ground it to the machine dierctly.

Ground is from the ribbon cable.

Look at post #8.

#37 3 years ago

Dear BK Owners!
I looking for a bit technical help!

I would like to see a close up picture from the relay in the back box next to the big capacitor and its wiring from a BK which utilize the SYS3-6 type power supply unit.
Also need a picture from the relay lettering to i can buy a same pat number, also a few picture from its bracket to i can recreate it.

Also the most important its wiring. As i seen manual includes only the newer psu,

So if someone can tell me which colored wires goes to which lead of the relay and the other side too would be helpful.
Thanks And Best Regards!

#38 3 years ago

Its so strange, when i toutch lower right is gentle, not press but just toutch with a finger, let finger gentle up and down all displayes work, if i keep on up and down displayes work, when i remouve me finger displayes goo out again after few secounds.

What is this?? Is all ics up to bee replaced?? Resolder did not help.

#39 3 years ago

If you wiggle the cables to the display controller board, does that also affect the displays?
Have you checked the connectors that plug into the board? Do they need repining?
Are the metal fingers on the edge connectors clean?
If no luck, show a picture of the back side of the board.

#40 3 years ago

Yes hes and yes. Only way displayes work is when i gentlly put my finger on lower right ic.
So wierd

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