Cleveland, OH
Quoted from frunch:Are the eos and/or cabinet switches new?
The EOS switches are new for all flippers. The flipper switches are not new but the contacts are clean. There is a spark when pushing the flipper button.
(Topic ID: 288536)
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Black Knight
Williams, 1980
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Quoted from frenchmarky:If you remove one, two or all three balls from the game and then turn it off and back on, does it still do the constant outhole kicking?
If I remove 1 ball off of the switch in the trough by the plunger when the game is on, the outhole doesn't kick anymore. If I put the ball back, it starts kicking again.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Hmm all four trough switches are on the same switch matrix column. And during a game, a ball would get served and then would be in the same condition, only two balls in the trough, and it stops kicking then too.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Run your switch test and see if they all display correctly when you trigger only one at time, and when you have a different number of balls in the trough see if all the correct switch numbers display correctly in order.
Ok. For the switch test, I pushed 1st switch where ball would be closest to the plunger, get 17. Push second switch, get 18. Push 3rd switch, it cycles between 19 and 20. Kickout does the same, cycles between 19 and 20.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Time for the switch matrix experts! : )
Ok. Thanks for your help so far. 
Reading some other topics on this switch issue mentions it could be a shorted diode. Will check them when I get some time.
I checked each diode with my meter on the diode setting (did not clip off leg), and it is reading ok.
I figured since I had the machine propped up, I just went ahead and replaced the diodes on those 2 switches. Still no change.
Also wanted to add that when in the switch test, both switches in the outlanes will cycle between each other when pressed and held down.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Verify the correct wire colors in the manual's switch matrix diagram are going to the correct ends of the diodes in the trough and outhole switches in case the wires might have been switched incorrectly at the switch lugs, unless it didn't have this problem previously while you've owned the game and you haven't performed any work on the switches before.
I've had this machine for a long time and they used to work properly. I've never changed anything with these switches or disconnected any of the wires. I guess I'll start checking diodes in the columns/rows where these switches reside.
Quoted from frunch:Perhaps you have a short between pins 6 and 7 on 2J3? Try measuring resistance between those two pins with the connector removed. All the switches you're talking about are next to each other on the switch matrix diagram:
[quoted image]
Now that you mention it, before I set it free play, I'd push the start button and it would display a credit. I'll check that this evening and report back. Thanks!
Quoted from frunch:I'd get a close look at the soldering between those 2 pins, they may be bridged or shorted together somehow.
You are a genius. After looking at the solder joint through a magnifying glass, there was a tiny piece of wire((almost hair-like) touching both solder joints. After removing it continuity is gone. Put boards back in, turned it on and no kicker activating. Switch test is normal for those switches. Thank you!
1 problem solved, 1 last one to go( flippers).
Quoted from frunch:Excellent!!! I had a somewhat similar issue on a game a while back that made me think of that. Glad you got it fixed!
I'm kind of at a loss as to the flipper problem though. I would have thought grounding the orange wires at J12 would allow you to use the flipper buttons to activate the flippers. How did you attach the orange wires to ground?
Only other thing i can think of is to try some fine sandpaper on all the new EOS switches, new ones often have some sort of residue or something that can cause them to act flaky initially. You'll figure it out soon--there's only so many things it can be!
I used a length of wire. Stuck one end in the female connector and the other end I connected to the ground in the backbox. I tried both orange wires that way. One other thing I did was wedge a heavier gage wire into the ground braid and briefly touched each center lug of the flipper coils, and they would all fire.( is this the correct method? I read that grounding the non banded lug would fire the coils and I read somewhere else that grounding the center lug would make them fire). Makes me wonder if they are wired correctly. I'll tro to take some clear pics when I get time.
In the solenoid test, the flippers just buzz. I'm still not hearing the relay click when 1st powering up the machine.
I'll try to clean the EOS switches sometime this weekend and report back.
Quoted from frunch:Wiring looks correct to me. Have you tried running the coil test as frenchmarky suggested to see if you hear the flipper relay turn on/off? That still wouldn't explain the flippers not working though. Have you tried grounding the middle lug and non-banded lugs of each flipper coil? Tried sanding the eos switches?
Here's an odd question: have you re-pinned the power connector that supplies the +28vdc to the flipper coils? Connector 3J3 on the power supply board.
What voltage are you getting at the coils? Same voltage at all 3 lugs of each one?
Did I mention that you are a genius? After your suggestion to lightly file the EOS switches, my flippers are now working! A couple of things that I've found out. The older coils don't seem to sit well in the new fliptronic style mechs. They seem loose and no amount of adjustment has worked. Some times the flipper bats will stick in the up position. I probably should have just spent the extra $ at the time when I ordered them from Pinball Life and got the new coils too. I really appreciate your help in getting this fixed. I've been scratching my head for weeks trying to figure this out!
I've repinned every connector. Male and female except the power supply since it is brand new.
Quoted from frunch:Lol, great work!!! Congrats on getting it over the finish line!
It makes me happy to know another Knight rides again! BK was the first pin in my collection, and it's bolted to the floor!
Enjoy!
Again, thank you! BK has been my grail pin since I was a teenager. Mine is never going anywhere either.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Pretty sneaky of the game to have BOTH eos switches needing to be roughed up a little like that, making one think it must be something else. So if these switches are new along with the mechs it must've been because they're still shiny with maybe an oily film on them from the manufacturing?
Yeah. I never would have thought the EOS would need that since they are new. Black Knight has 4 flippers so I had to file all of them.
Quoted from frunch:You're welcome!! It's my pleasure to be able to help out--as so many have done for me (and still do!)!
If you get a chance, maybe post a few pics of your newly-working Knight in all it's glory?
Will do. I've spent a lot of time with this machine getting it up to snuff. The bulletproofing took a lot if time. All of the connectors took hours to do. I've added color matching LED's as well. I'll be ordering some new coils for it soon. I'll add a couple of pics this weekend when I get a chance. The cabinet still needs some TLC but my main objective for now was to get it up and running.
I also just realized that all this time I've been replying with my phone in this thread and the 1st post I did was from my son's PC. I didn't realize that I was logged into his account when I started the topic. I was wondering why I couldn't edit my 1st post from my phone. Duh!
Quoted from frenchmarky:Oh yeah, four not just two. Sheesh you'd think ONE of them would have managed to complete its circuit brand new even thru a little oily film.
Crazy huh!
As with most BK backglasses, there is a little bit of paint flaking off. I did seal it though. It needs new glass and a good cleaning/waxing. I'm happy with it for what it is. A players machine.
I don't have the skills to make it look better than new. As long as everything works, I'm good to go.
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