Black Knight, First Pinball Machine

Sounds like your controlled lamps are not working. Check the fuse first. If its blows out again check the bridge rectifier. The bridge is mounted on the backbox below power board.

You can also look for +voltage on the controlled lamp connectors. Middle bottom of driver board, check the manual.

I should also mention there are large 2w resistors on the right side of the driver board that like to burn up. These are in the controlled lamp circuit. If they are fried, replace with 5w cement resistors. 82 ohms i think, but check manual to be sure.

Not the full schematics, but still usefull
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/310/Williams_1980_Black_Knight_Operators_Handbook.pdf

Great playing iconic game, congrats. I (my dad, actually) owned it in the early 80s. We always had problems with it. Eventually the sound gave out and we got rid of it. Personally, I'd be wary of the game, unless you are good with board work and diagnosing issues.

I hope you get it sorted, it really is a great game and was ahead of its time. I suppose if you get it cheap enough, it would be a good machine to learn how to repair.

Congrats! This was my first pinball as well. The game will not start if it can not detect all 3 balls so make sure all the trough and ball lock switches are working properly.

I have not had any major issues with mine so don't think that this game is a lemon, it's just old . It's a great game!

No, not more so.

There are some standard bulletproofing steps that have to be done to that whole system3-7 series of games.

Once you do them, your game will run as trouble free as any pinball can.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6

BK was my first pin too. I agree that it's a good one to learn on. I would recommend that you start by rebuilding all of the connectors in the backbox. This is tedious, but you'll be starting from a sane baseline.

+1 on this, make sure those are all working properly, and that three balls are installed. Can you run the tests? that would tell you if any of the ball trough switches are not functioning.

maybe a few photos would help ?
the experienced members often spot things right away with board damage
however if you have those programmable 'chips' don't use the flash
I've read that the flash can erase them

I've had mine for 2 months. Lucky for me it was working when I got it, then I started breaking it when I tried a LED uprade. I broke some solder joints in the process. Also found a few light diodes completly missing. This is my 5th early 80's machine. They all had issues. I think the best thing to do is gather all the information you can (schematics and user guide) and never troubleshoot while tired or angry. If you can afford it, all the boards are available and most have been redesigned. Although board replacement doesn't fix bad wiring. Test, read, Test, read, and so forth. Check prices on BK. It's worth it!

BK is my first pin too, going through some sound board issues right now, but i'll get that sorted out and if not i already ordered new ones. i couldn't get mine going at first untill i read about having the coin door open and switching it off and on 2-3 times untill it is out of audit mode and all 3 balls accounted for. mine is beat and i bought it sight unseen for $100.00. i have bought a new CRP playfeild (#11 of 35 of the silver knight run) a backglass from mayfair, 4 complete flipper assembly's ,cab stencils,and new sound boards ( not arrived yet) i am excited to start my first teardown and restore in the next few days.

Damn, that will be one sweet looking BK when you are done with it!

just to add, Stu here ( from cpr) has a sweet hand picked PF for BK for sale, but i found out after i already bought mine or i would have bought his instead.

I wish I had that kind of extra cash laying around to get that.

It's hard to determine from your description how far the game is booting, if it is booting at all...

Some questions:

Other than the General Illumination lights, what else happens on power up?

Any coils kick?
Any Sounds?
Any Displays (I assume credit display) and what do they show?

Remove the backglass, open the head and watch the LED segmented display and the two LED's next to it...what are they doing during the boot process (be as descriptive as possible).

I'm going to guess the game is not completely booting, although if you can add credits, maybe it is...could be a number of things keeping it from booting completely, but the most likely is a bad IC socket somewhere, or a missing voltage from the power supply/board. This is where you should almost always start on troubleshooting a pin. Make sure ALL the voltages are present and within spec on the powerboard.

You might want to update your location as maybe someone local can help you out. With being new to pins and the game not booting, it will be difficult (not impossible tho) to diagnose over a forum. You should also get a copy of Clay's System 7 Guide for troubleshooting this pin as it has step by step procedures on what to check.

It looks like the top left connector in the first picture above isn't lined up correctly. Can't tell from the pics but looks like a few might be misaligned.

If it is having trouble starting a game you likely have ball trough problems. Using the switch diagnostic verify all switches in trough, ball lock holes, etc. are functioning properly.

That's just the black cover that's misaligned I think. They slide pretty easy. The boards actually look very clean from what I can see. Nice pickup. I love me some Black Knight! Keep working on it. You'll figure it out. I just started working on pins about 8 months ago and I can pretty much do any repairs including board repairs. You sound excited which is important. Keep learning. Keep reading. Keep asking questions here on Pinside, and you'll have a great BK before you know it.

Mike

Yeah way to much info and nothing focused here. You should not just be wiggling chips and swapping good fuses. You need to define the problem before looking for the solution.

When you turn it on, does it complete diagnostics and go into attract mode?
If not is it at least showing you the rom version in player one? (2564 or something like that?)
If it is, what lamps are not working?

If it does power up completely and go into attract mode, can you start a game?
BK will not start if it thinks one of the 3 balls is not inserted (you have 3 balls correct? Not 2?) and it will not give you an error if your missing one or a switch the would be under one is malfunctioning. Not like a never game that will flash 'missing ball' on the display.

If the game goes into attract and will not start, make sure your drop targets are all up, then go into the test mode and go to the switch tests.. You should have 3 switches registering only. Those will be the three the balls are resting on at the time. Any less it will NOT start. Any more and that's ok, it will start, but you have another problem for later.

If it does show 3 switches and still does not start, do you have credits? Will dropping coins in register credits?

If general feature lamps are out did you check to see if you are getting 6.3V off of the power supply? Older williams are known to melt the 2 pin GI connector (lower right on PS with yellow wires out of it).

Are inserts cycling? (2x, 3x, 4x, ect,,,) all running through the attract mode?

Did you put it into service mode and see if you can step into the all lights on test?

The switch in the fourth pic looks to be a problem. The ball should be holding that down, it should not be bent down on its own. I don't know if that will fix your problem, but it is a problem. Try bending it back into place before outright replacing it. The two little buttons or "contacts" on each leaf should be open about a 1/16th of an inch until the ball rolls over the little white knob on the end of the switch which should cause them to come together or close.

Can you go into test mode? I asked earlier in the thread and others have too but you never mention if it will go into test mode or not.

Looks like the batteries aren't retaining memory. Did you cycle through your switches on the coin door? That can get it out of factory reset so you can coin boot.

In the pinball world, Black Knight is both iconic and addictive. There were times I had a hard time pulling away because of how addicting those drop targets are. I also liked the spring/switch at the middle ramp that you collect points from the inlane.
It's a game on my want list for someday, but I won't be able to beat the price I paid for my last one ($100, playfield and backglass were mint and only needed a $15 rom)
Good luck and enjoy!

When you push any of the coin door test switches, what do they do? Does anything change on the displays? It should, and if so, you will be able to cycle through until it gets to attract mode (ready for a game)

I've got a BK that I just got going and may be able to help. Couple things that could help you...

Print this off...
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/310/Williams_1980_Black_Knight_Operators_Handbook.pdf

It's a copy of that moldy manual you don't want to touch. Now you have no excuse not to read it

As other posters have said, your problem could be as simple as not having three balls in the trough (game won't start if not). If you do have three balls in the trough, it could be as simple as a bent switch telling the game that you don't have those balls (even though you do). Those switches are the only way for the game to know if the balls are there are not. Put balls in, inspect the switches and whether they make or don't make when balls are installed or not installed, add a credit, and try to start a game.

If you can't start a game, you'll need to put the game into diagnostics and see what's not working. The game can pretty much tell you what is wrong when it comes to switches and even coils. When you press ADVANCE, you are not seeing random numbers; those are diagnostics data. Read the manual and find out what it all means. Check page 7 where it says DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES. The instructions are pretty easy to follow, and there's lots of info that you can learn from the machine if you will learn how to listen to what it's telling you.

Hope that helps.
Dan

All good advice. Troubleshooting a pinball machine by trial and error can ruin the hobby for you. Frustration will win and your enjoyment will disappear. Read the manual and try to identify one problem at a time. If you run in circles too long, you will end up making changes that cause new problems and then the snowball will start rolling.

Good luck, take a step back and slow down. things will get clearer is you follow a systematic approach.

One great resource is the pinball ninja. It is a blog filled with pinball repairs and videos. Send an email to cfh@provide.net and let him know you want to sign up. Best $$$'s I have spent in my pinball resource library!!!

double post. sorry

Looks like a good condition game.. good score man. its a quality title and you will eventually get this figured out.. if you can find a local guy here on pinside to come help you out it will help in the frustration.

Good luck with it. I will share my experience in case it helps. I've been working on pins for quite a while, and after a lot of making them worse each time I tried to fix something, I'm finally to the point where I can make them better. It takes time and also willingness to learn.

Back a few years ago there was a guide that you could download called the "Pinrepair guide" that was like a bible for working on pins. It had a really nice approach for how to tackle a non-working pinball from beginning to end using what the author dubbed the systematic approach. This approach treated every pin as though nothing worked, and starting with the transformer then power supply then MPU, etc. worked through it, replacing parts along the way that are known to fail. This guide was edited, compiled and partially authored by the guy whose email you have above. His name is Clay AKA the Pinball Ninja. He also did a bunch of pinball repair videos.

Back when I was getting into pins, I printed every one of these guides and dedicated 3-ring binders to them. I swear by them and crack them open for every pin I buy. His guides aren't available for free any more (sad, but a fact of life). There is a pinwiki that's been started up, but frankly it's not as complete or as good.

As the other poster said, the Pinball Ninja site is awesome. I love it and read it all the time and never regret my donation. But it's more of a "day in the life of a pinball repairman" kind of thing. Very fun, but not a guide to getting a non-working machine back to life. For this, you need the "Pinrepair Guides" which as I mentioned are no longer hosted at Clay's site.

Anyway, thought you should know all that. I hate when I have to give bad news.

Having said that, there is a web site where a guy has put a lot of time into re-creating Firepower schematics.

http://www.firepowerpinball.com/

Firepower isn't 100% the same as Black Knight, but it's actually quite close. Of course, you might brave the mold and see if you have original schematics in your bag. If so, you will want to copy those at an office supply store to have a handy non-moldy copy. The manual is fine for decoding the diagnostics codes, but a schematic is essential in the long run. Even when you get it going, over time things will occasionally have issues, and only the schematic can tell you exactly where to look. You can always buy schematics down the road.

Any way, good luck with your Black Knight. In my case I bought the game dead. It worked except had no flippers and three coils were out. One of the coils was a corroded transistor. The rest of the coils and the flippers were simply that the female end of the molex plug had spread out and wasn't making contact. Once I got these issues squared away, I was in business. It's an awesome game, and a great first purchase! Congrats and good luck.

Dan

+1 to that site, I use those prints a LOT on my BK.

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/6337010/pinrepair.com_Pinball_Machine_Repair_Guides___And_other_misc_Pin

It's still around.

thats a problem, the way they work is they should be open and not touching when there is no ball resting on them, and closed and touching when the ball is resting on them. They need to be adjusted to get that perfect balance of open and closed. if those are not working properly it will not start a game.

Let me help you with the tests.

Turn the machine on and open the coin door. press down the middle button inside the coin door this is the auto up/manual down button. Press it so it is DOWN. Now press advance, its the button above it when looking down.

Your numbers on your display should all be zeros

now push the middle button again so it is UP. all of your numbers on display should cycle 0-9.

now press advance again this is the sound test. It should say 00 in your credits display and it should cycle through all of the sounds.

now press advance again, it should now say 01 in your credits display and all of your lights should be flashing, this is a good test to use to see if you have any bulbs (or a string of bulbs) out.

Now press advance again, this is an important test and it is for the solenoids. It should say 03 in the credits display. This test is going to cycle through all of your solenoids one by one. Have the manual handy and turn to page ten. Page ten has a list of all the numbers, which solenoid coresponds, and a map of where they are. Watch the display, it should cycle through numbers, each is assigned to a solenoid. Make sure all of your solenoids are working. You will hear them make noise or fire a slingshot or pop bumper or whatever they are in a cycle. Note in the manual that not every number will have a solenoid. 12-14 and 20-21 do nothing so that is ok. If any are not working, report back here.

Now press advance again, this will be another very important test, it is the switch test. It should still say test three in the credit display. This test is going to check for any "stuck" or "closed" switches. In your display it will show a number and make a tone (if your sound is working) this number is indicating a closed switch. it will cycle through them. Have your manual out again and have it open to page 12, this gives you a list of numbers, the name of the switch and a map of where they are. TAKE NOTE: if you have a ball in the ball trough or up in the kickout where multiball starts, it is going to indicate that the switch is stuck or closed. I would remove all balls prior to starting the test, but you can remove them at this point and the switch should now be open. See what switches are stuck and then report back. You want all switches to be open and for there to be no numbers on the display.

Easiest way to get out of test mode is to turn game off and on.

Mine are all in binders as well.

Mine too. Priceless!!

I think you're close. I think in the pic where the bottom display says 14, if you look at page 3 in the manual, it is displaying the Replay 1 Score (6.5 Mill).

Also in the 3rd pic it's telling you how many replay score credits have been awarded (audit 6) which is none.

Check the instructions one more time and make sure you're doing it like the poster above says and like it says in the manual. If you are and it's still not working it's possible there's a broken wire in the backbox or elsewhere. It's the connector at the top left in this pic without the black cover that controls your coin door audit/diagnostic switches. I had a broken wire on one of mine and couldn't get audits or diagnostics at all.

http://forum-img.pinside.com/pinball/forum/?bb_attachments=698597&bbat=78522&inline&fullsize

Ok that first picture is the 'your machine is not set up yet' display.

It's the Firmware revision of the machine and it indicates your memory either was not battery protected or clear via the clear switch. Thats common.

The way to clear that is to go into audits mode UP and click the advance button. That will put you ad audit 01, then put the test switch DOWN and hit advance and you will go to the last audit setting '50' then put the center switch back UP and hit advance and you go into game over mode.

To recap,

When you see '2500 3'
Middle UP
Advance (credit will show 01)
Middle DOWN
Advance (credit will show 50)
Middle up
Advance will go into attract mode.

New batteries (and or repair holder/corrosion if needed) will make it so you don't have to do that.

mine does that "2500-3" also, if i open the coin door up and cycle the power off and on 2X mine goes into attract mode and i can credit up and play.

I think the OP is getting close.... Try what this guy said.

Also we should have asked about the batteries already, did you put new ones in? is there any green corosion under them?

Also, sounds like you are going into audit mode. Thats what happens if the button in the middle is up before you hit the advance button. Its tricky.

Yeah that battery holder is SHOT. There are threads devoted to moving it off the module and Pinwiki covers it also so I'll leave that be.

That is why you are powering up with the "2500 3". However stepping through the up down advance dance should get you past that.

To answer your other questions:

Doing the power off/on cycle will not clear the condition if the batteries are out/shot. That only fixes the condition if the 'memory protect' button has been pushed or you just put in a set of batteries.

The state of the center button does nothing when you power up a machine, it is only sensed/matters when you hit the selftest/advance button.