(Topic ID: 139403)

Black knight Drop Targets Not Working.

By Juice

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by PA28steve
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Rottendog_mpu327_Scmatics_part_2.jpeg
Rottendog_mpu327_Scmatics.jpeg
Rottendog_WDP3211A_Power_Supply.jpeg
BK_switch_matrix_3.jpg
BK_switch_matrix_2.jpg
BK_switch_matrix_1.jpg
#1 8 years ago

Hey All, First post here.

I've been lurking for a while trying to get my BK working. And after 3 years, I got it going about a month and a half ago. Everything worked great. I had replaced the main board with a Rottondog MPU327. Aside from the odd broken wire and closed/open switch, I had everything in perfect working order.

Then after a week or so the bottom drop targets stopped working, Not registering a hit. During the solenoids test they all work. The switch test says there is nothing wrong. If I close those switches, nothing happens. Now the upper drop targets are starting to have issues. They have started to only register one target at a time. You can hit all three, scoring 1000ps each, but no arrow is lit up.

I thought that maybe it was a bad diode, so I replaced them all. But that changed nothing.

Not sure what I should do now.

Any and all help is very much appreciated.

#2 8 years ago

Did u check the onto boards for the drop down. Clean optos with a qtip. See if that helps. Also do a switch test and see if those optos register. If they don't u know where your issue is at

#3 8 years ago

I don't think it has optos. It uses the old style leaf switches. They are clean.

The upper drop targets during the switch test say that all the switches are working fine. The lower targets the switches are not registering at all.

#4 8 years ago

Both sets of targets or just left/right?

#5 8 years ago

Both sets on the bottom field.

#6 8 years ago

All lower drops are on the same column. Check the GREEN/YELLOW wire at J2.6 for good connection to connector pin and header pin.

Check around target mechs for a broken G/Y wire.

Check IC 17 pins 8 and 9 for pulsing with logic probe.

#7 8 years ago

I've been through all the wiring at this point. All the wiring on this circuit checks out for continuity, Diodes all check out fine.

#8 8 years ago

This shows my problem much better.

#9 8 years ago

Pull J2 and J3 on Driver Board. Enter switch test. Run a jumper from J2 pin 6 to J3 pin 1 (or 2,3,4,5, etc). You should get a response on each pin.

Repeat the test with a jumper from J2 pins 1,2,3,5,6,7,8 to J3 pins 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. That is to say J2.1 to J3.1, then pin 3, etc. Then J2.2 to all pins (except key) of J3, etc. Then reverse the test and go from J3.1 to all pins of J2, then J3.3 to all pins of J2, etc until all pins on both connectors have been tested and report back a switch closure.

Does that game have the old wiper target switches or leafs or microswitches? You've got some flaky switches fer sure.

#10 8 years ago

Leaf switches. I've cleaned them all and get continuity when I close the switches. But I have no issues replacing them, just to eliminate them as a problem.

I'll do what you have suggested once I get home.

#11 8 years ago

Leaf switches are almost indestructible. You probably won't have to replace any of them. However, 35-year-old crud won't just wipe out with a business card or dollar bill. I have had excellent results on my World Cup refurb polishing the goldflash contacts with Mother's Mag polish. They finish with a true mirror reflection.

Let's make sure all the rows and columns are active, especially column 4.

#12 8 years ago

Lol, almost indestructible. I'll have to upload some pics on how bent some of these switches are. As far as cleaning the switches, I have sandpaper from 60g to 3500g. Can I uses some of the higher grit sandpaper to clean them?

Quoted from cody_chunn:

Pull J2 and J3 on Driver Board. Enter switch test. Run a jumper from J2 pin 6 to J3 pin 1 (or 2,3,4,5, etc). You should get a response on each pin.
Repeat the test with a jumper from J2 pins 1,2,3,5,6,7,8 to J3 pins 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. That is to say J2.1 to J3.1, then pin 3, etc. Then J2.2 to all pins (except key) of J3, etc. Then reverse the test and go from J3.1 to all pins of J2, then J3.3 to all pins of J2, etc until all pins on both connectors have been tested and report back a switch closure.
Does that game have the old wiper target switches or leafs or microswitches? You've got some flaky switches fer sure.

OK, J2 pin 5 and J3 pins 1-9 all test out fine. Mind you, J3 pin 6 and J3 pin 1-9 nothing.

Switching it around, J3 1,3(no 2nd pin) and J2 pins 5,7,8,9 are good
J3 4-9 and J2 pins 3,5,7,8,9 are good

#13 8 years ago

So you get no response with a jumper from J2 pin 6 to any pin on J3, is that correct?

No, sandpaper isn't recommended on goldflash contacts. However, if they have been filed previously you can't make them worse. Best to replace (Pinball Resource has everything you need) but while you wait you can try rubbing them with 2k or higher. It will take off the goldflash but it will give them a smooth surface and hopefully increase their responsiveness and prevent bounce caused by file grooves until your replacements arrive.

#14 8 years ago

Yeah nothing at all.

lol I wont need to wait long, there is a pinball store 10 mins from me. http://www.theplaydiumstore.com/

#15 8 years ago

Since you can jump J2 pin 6 to any pin of J3 and get no response, that indicates column 4 is broken.

BK switch matrix 1.jpgBK switch matrix 1.jpg

If we follow that column's wire we see it runs to J2 pin 6 of driver board.

BK switch matrix 2.jpgBK switch matrix 2.jpg

On the driver board, we enter J2.6 and go to what looks like IC17.8, then IC17.1, then back to the PIA on pin 13.

BK switch matrix 3.jpgBK switch matrix 3.jpg

Hard to say for sure, the schems are pretty degraded. You can continuity beep-test that path to make sure the pins referenced are correct, then probe those pins with a logic probe and see if they are pulsing, or at least behaving like the column circuit next door that is working...

#16 8 years ago

Sorry, I've been really busy latly. I have the schematic for the MPU327 board if that would help.

#17 8 years ago

Oh. Never mind. Sorry I gave you info for an original board. If you can put a scan of the schematic up I will try to help. There are others here with hands-on experience with those boards...I would be strictly theoretical. But put it up and let's see what we can do.

#18 8 years ago

Ok, I broke down and bought a Rottendog WDP3211A Power Supply. Just to eliminate that as the cause of my problems....did not work.

So here are all the schematics and a Vid of whats going on now.

Rottendog_WDP3211A_Power_Supply.jpegRottendog_WDP3211A_Power_Supply.jpeg

Rottendog_mpu327_Scmatics.jpegRottendog_mpu327_Scmatics.jpeg

Rottendog_mpu327_Scmatics_part_2.jpegRottendog_mpu327_Scmatics_part_2.jpeg

#19 8 years ago

Are any of those connectors labeled? Where do the switch columns and rows plug in? Is it J2 and J3 like the original driver board?

You need to pull the switch row and column connectors and perform the jumper test, connecting each row in turn to each column in turn to make sure the board can read the switch matrix properly.

#20 8 years ago

Do you have a logic probe? If you do, it's pretty easy to walk through the circuit.

I think post 9 answers your question about the jumper test Cody.

#21 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Do you have a logic probe? If you do, it's pretty easy to walk through the circuit.
I think post 9 answers your question about the jumper test Cody.

Of course you're right Terry. Since column 4 (J2.6) was flatline in the jumper test, that line needs to be probed. I don't fully understand his results of the jumper test, but more than one line may be out...

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Of course you're right Terry.

Actually I was wrong, post 12 answers your question.

#23 8 years ago

I had a similar problem on my BK, after sitting for 2 years ( I had a house fire, so it went into storage).. When I got it back, on one bank, all of the drop targets would individually score, but when all three were down, it didn't know it. It just turned out to be intermittent leaf switches.. At SOME point during the target falling and hitting the switch, the contacts would connect, and it would score the one target, but as it sat resting in the fully down position, at least one of the leaf switches wasn't staying "closed" even though physically it was being pressed.. The result, the CPU thought the drop target went down, and back up (even though it hadn't reset it).. All it took was about 10 iterations of cleaning and trial and error adjusting to get the leaf switches adjusted properly, and it's been working 100% for 6 months now, with no parts replaced.

The switch test is your friend.. although I'm not familiar with the replacement boards you got, so I dont know if it does the same test in the same way. Mine is all original.

Good luck!

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