(Topic ID: 201226)

Black Knight Displays

By StratDoc

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

The displays on my Black Knight at dead. The game goes into attract mode, all GI and controlled lamps work as well as sound. I have 100v at the displays. I am using a new Rottendog MPU327. The problem occurred when I inadvertently plugged the 5v connector from the power supply into the IJ6 connector. I am guessing something on the MPU is damaged? From the original board schematics 1J6 connect to IC29 and IC 6 decoder.

The Rottendog board passes the diagnostic test.

Thanks for your help.

#2 6 years ago

I would contact rottendog.

#3 6 years ago

I pulled the MPU327 from my Blackout and installed it in the Black Knight. The displays still do not work which would suggest it is not a board issue.

#4 6 years ago

Did you swap the display board out? I think they may be the same between v 6 & 7.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

I have 100v at the displays.

You also need -100 volts, 5 volts and ground. Make sure all four are at the display board.

#6 6 years ago

Thank you for the replies.

I was able to install a new Rottendog power board to test voltages. Voltages to the displays are correct but no displays. Not even a glow or ember light. This only leaves either the displays or the MDB that are damaged. I have never worked on a MDB so don't know where to start to trouble shoot.

Thanks,

#7 6 years ago

Swap the display controller from blackout?

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

I have never worked on a MDB so don't know where to start to trouble shoot.

Time to start.

#9 6 years ago

Here is what I have done so far.

1) I checked voltages to the display board and all are correct
2) glass displays 3 & 4 emit a small dot orange/amber glow. Displays 1, 2, and the credit glass display do not
3) The "keep alive" resistors all check out to spec except for R20 which registers 70 volts.
4) I installed glass displays from 1 & 2 into player 4. Glass displays 1 & 2 emit a small orange/amber dot when installed in player 4.
5) I installed the glass credit ball in play display into player 4. It does not emit a small orange/amber dot when installed in player 4.
6) I probed the input side pins 2-8 of the ICs. ICs 7, 8,12, 13 pins 2-8 all stuck lo. ICs 1 & 2 pins 2-8 pulse.

Based on pinwiki it would seem that ICs 7,8,12,13 are bad. How do I know if the glass displays are also bad? I can find a used working MDB but if the displays are bad I might as well buy a whole new LED display set.

Thanks,

#10 6 years ago

Firepower uses a different master display driver and BK has 7 digit displays.

Lets go back to the thing you did when it stopped working. From there, we might be able to figure out what might have been damaged.

Which connector did you plug in where? I'm not sure what you mean by the "5v connector". Do you mean you plugged the cable that normally goes to IJ6 on the CPU board into IJ2 and the IJ2 cable onto IJ6? Were those the only cables you swapped?

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Here is what I have done so far.
1) I checked voltages to the display board and all are correct
2) glass displays 3 & 4 emit a small dot orange/amber glow. Displays 1, 2, and the credit glass display do not
3) The "keep alive" resistors all check out to spec except for R20 which registers 70 volts.
4) I installed glass displays from 1 & 2 into player 4. Glass displays 1 & 2 emit a small orange/amber dot when installed in player 4.
5) I installed the glass credit ball in play display into player 4. It does not emit a small orange/amber dot when installed in player 4.
6) I probed the input side pins 2-8 of the ICs. ICs 7, 8,12, 13 pins 2-8 all stuck lo. ICs 1 & 2 pins 2-8 pulse.
Based on pinwiki it would seem that ICs 7,8,12,13 are bad. How do I know if the glass displays are also bad? I can find a used working MDB but if the displays are bad I might as well buy a whole new LED display set.
Thanks,

Are you probing these ICs on the master display board?

I find it hard to believe that your display glass would be impacted by incorrectly plugging cables in on the CPU board so for now, I would ignore the glass.

For now, unplug all the displays except one. Choose the one to remain connected to be one that has a glow. This will reduce the system to the least operrating condition and prevent the other glass from interfering if indeed one is bad.

#12 6 years ago

Schwaggs,

Thanks for the reply.

On the CPU board I plugged IJ2 into IJ6 and IJ6 into IJ2.

Yes, I am probed in the input side of the ICs on the MDB. IC 7, 8, 12, 13 pins 2-8 stuck hi.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Schwaggs,
Thanks for the reply.
On the CPU board I plugged IJ2 into IJ6 and IJ6 into IJ2.
Yes, I am probed in the input side of the ICs on the MDB. IC 7, 8, 12, 13 pins 2-8 stuck hi.

What about the inputs to the buffers IC9, 10 and 11. Do you have pulsing on the inputs? Pins 1, 3, 5, 9, 11, and 13. Pins 1 (unused - should be lo) and 13 (blanking which should be hi) on IC11 should not be pulsing.

#14 6 years ago

No pulsing on the input side of IC9, 10,11. Each pin stuck either hi or lo

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

No pulsing on the input side of IC9, 10,11. Each pin stuck either hi or lo

Those are the strobe inputs from the CPU board. If the inputs are not pulsing, it appears the problem is on the CPU board. However, I thought you installed the Blackout CPU and it didn't work either???? When you installed the Blackout board, did the game go into attract like it does with the BK board?

#16 6 years ago

Correct. I installed the MPU327 from my Blackout board. I set the DIP switches on the board to BK and the game goes into attract mode but no displays.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Correct. I installed the MPU327 from my Blackout board. I set the DIP switches on the board to BK and the game goes into attract mode but no displays.

hmm, that is weird. Try this, unplug IJ6 and IJ7 from the RD board and probe those pins to see if they are pulsing without the load of the MDB.

#18 6 years ago

All pins on IJ6 and IJ7 stuck hi

I am going to reinstall my other board one more time.

#19 6 years ago

Looking at the schematics, I can't believe that IC6, the 74154 on what would be the CPU board, didn't blow when you swapped the connectors. 5V and 12V unregulated were applied to some of the outputs of this TTL chip. TTL outputs can't handle that sort of thing.

#20 6 years ago

I reinstalled the blackout MPU. I must have not had the switched set correctly. It boots into attract mode and the displays work. Displays 1 and 2 have a lot of missing segments which wasn't the case prior. If IC6 that is an easy replacement. Do the missing segments also mean something is probably damaged on the MDB?

#21 6 years ago

Well, thats good and bad! Progress in any event!

To figure out the missing segments, I would start with visually inspecting R1 through R7 and make sure none look burned.

Then check IC3 which is the BCD to 7 segment chip for player 1 and 2 displays. The 7 segment output data exits IC3 on pins 9-15. Make sure these are hi when the segment is on and low when the segment is off. Only segments that are supposed to be lit will go hi. It would be best to have the game cycling through display test when probing these pins and probe for several seconds to allow the test mode to cycle through the various numbers. This test cycles through all numbers which light up all segments eventually.

If all the segment outputs are pulsing, next is to check the high voltage driver UDN7180. You can't use a logic probe on the 7180 but you can use your meter set to DC. CAREFULLY put your meter on IC1 pins 11-18. When the segment is supposed to be on, you should get -97V. When the segment is supposed to be off, it will be 0V.

#22 6 years ago

I found a 75154 on an old board and replaced the bad IC6 on the rottendog . The board is now working, but still have display problems for players 1 and 2.

Checked R1- R7 and all look okay. Tested Ic3 9-15 with probe and the pins cycle from hi to lo during display test. The UDN7180 gets voltages all over the place. Only two of,the pins are -97v. Other pins are anywhere from -21 to -47 v

#23 6 years ago

In business. Had a udn7180 on an old system 11 display. Installed and all is well. Now to see if I can get the game to play thank you!

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

In business. Had a udn7180 on an old system 11 display. Installed and all is well. Now to see if I can get the game to play thank you!

Sweet! Congrats on the fix!

#25 6 years ago

Could not have done it without your guidance.

Now back to addressing the original issue with the board. It seems Rottendog had some troublesome boards with the latest revision - I posted another thread about it and several folks were experiencing the issue. In BK the ball in play will not advance - plays the first ball but will not advance to the second ball - and there is no sound. Jim sent me an IC replacement - that is when I screwed up the displays reinstalling the board after putting in the IC. Unfortunately the problem still persists. The new IC did not fix it. If I install my Blackout MPU327 game works fine.

Thanks,

#26 6 years ago

Thanks! I'm happy I was able to help!

I am following that other thread too. It looks like some revisions of the board have this issue while other don't. Maybe you could leave your Blackout board in BK and put the BK board in Blackout until they figure out the BK problem?

#27 6 years ago

i have extra displays and controllers if you need them
I see that you have it working now though

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