Wednesday I'm going to check out a BK, anything I should look for specific to BK or sys7 board set?
(Topic ID: 54503)
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Black Knight
Williams, 1980-
Black Knight Limited Edition
Williams, 1981
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I also just picked up a non working but clean BK!
Game starts and he showed me video of itnworking but currently it looks like it hangs in test mode, similar to johns arcade YouTube guys BK.
Even has the local operator sticker on the apron 
this is getting cleaned and fixed and going on route, anything awesome mod or update wise that makes it better?
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:Ha ha Nice! It’s a bad ass game
Congrats
You too! Funny we both got similar deals the same day! I’m excited to get the game going!
You have any plans for it?
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:Fix it up and play that beast!!!
Any mods or leds? I see some laser cut ramps with back lit to them that look cool. Otherwise ya, I’d rather just play the sucker and get pissed I drain all the time 
Quoted from hawknole:After a little more thought, one of the last things I added. This gap in the metal in the upper playfield, circled white, has been accused of chewing up balls and hence playfields. The blue rubber post sleeve I added sticks out a little so the ball hits that and not the metal. Note, there is a post behind there, however, the rubber on mine does not stick out enough to provide protection. Not my idea and a good one all the same.
where did you get that emblem sticker for the 1 way gate cover?
Thanks! I'll check mine. I see there is a post with a small rubber ring, not sure how far mine sticks out...
Quoted from hawknole:That decal is custom because I did not like the stock gate, even after ultra sonic cleaning and other methods. I have the design and could send to you and the process I use if you are interested, shoot me a PM if so.
looks good! Once I have my game cleaned and running I'll have to hit you up about that. I assume it is a nice decal printer paper etc.
Just ordered rubber, decals for targets, and led kit. Boards get shipped out shortly for full repair/refurb.
For some reason they moved the left spinner to the middle ramp gate and the left spinner was swapped with some white one with an S on it. I'd like this back to factory, and reading there were mentioned of making the middle ramp gate make contact with the switch both ball directions. Maybe that is why they used a spinner?
1 week later
Quoted from dzorbas:I have XPin orange displays in my Firepower. They are gorgeous but that's my personal opinion. The only thing preventing me from switching my BK to them is cost and the fact that every one of my original displays is perfect.
When you switch them you can get rid of the high voltage circuit that feeds them. You can pull the fuse out. Definitely less heat and less power.
Ohhhh that’s good to know. Thanks!
2 weeks later
One of my connectors, melted to the pin on the board when I removed it. Are these .156 idc ?
https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1601
CF821216-2DA7-460E-9658-E4A94F438005 (resized).jpegQuoted from dzorbas:Buy a crimper and replace all of these connectors if you can. They are bound to fail at some point. PITA.
crimper or a punch tool?
I have the push down punch tool for this style, but wasn't the crimper over $100 for the hand tool or is there something else?
Ya, I don't mind a punch tool for a connector here or there but a full connector swap would be nice to have a better way...
Quoted from nerdygrrl:I have a pair of $25 ratcheting crimpers from Amazon that are amazing. They are not popping up in my search, but I will try and find them for you tomorrow. They're awesome as you can set the pin in the crimper and ratchet it down and it holds it. Total game changer for me.
oh baby, ratchet crimpers 
ughhhhh totally would beat a punch tool.
Does that do a "molex" connector then? so I would need a different female plug?
rock on. I already ordered the older style, but it was like .70c. i'd rather have crimp style and now I can do that moving forward! thanks!
Hahaha you guys know how to spend my money thank you! I’ll snag those and I’ll probably order new connectors, boards are out being refurbished so it would be a good time to repin.
Do you use a handheld wire stripper as well?
Quoted from nerdygrrl:I have a southwire stripper that I like. Mine is older so only goes to 20G which is an issue, this oe says it gos to 22G. I am sure there are cheaper versions.
amazon.com link »
Nice! thanks. I'll order these too. Stripping sucks on the small gauge wire. i saw a video of John (johns arcade) and he had a set, holy smokes that looked nice.
Quoted from frunch:I have a pair of those ratcheting crimpers, but i can't seem to figure out the trick to making them work right. I've had a 1026-CT crimper i bought from GPE years ago that I've continued using instead. Any chance someone could school me on how to use the ratcheting crimpers, or point me to an instructional site or video?
From the reviews, it sounds like you have to mess with the pressure setting screw and you run a handful of test crimps to find the right setting for your size wire.
1 week later
Quoted from epeabs:Picking up a BK on Monday. I will be joining this club!!! It's been a long time coming.
Welcome! Post up pics when you get it!!
Quoted from vec-tor:Note: the company that supplied Williams with the color inserts and lane guides
----- from that time period went out of business in the early 80's.
Ya but just copy paste them to a new manufacture
Quoted from Black_Knight:Yes the cliffy helps. What pitch do you have it set too? The higher the pitch the more frequent the fly through.
I haven’t played mine yet but I was going to say this same thing. Cliffy it
Quoted from frunch:If the flashing you're talking about is coming from the general illumination, you may be able to disable the GI relay so that the lights are always just on--no flashing. Just a thought!
I like this idea! Hate to have you sell a game if you love it.
Quoted from dzorbas:Try putting the bulb in both ways. Put it in one way and twist. If that doesn't work, pull it, twist it 180 degrees and try it again. If that doesn't work, replace the entire holder with a 555 holder like this - https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/24-8776
Those 44/47 holders in the pops are crap.
I hate those holders. They work like crap in em’s and all my other games too. Usually I clean the socket and make sure it’s tight on the bulb, bottom and sides
2 weeks later
Quoted from vec-tor:Go to your electronic store and get some solder lugs...
Screw the lugs to the capacitor and then solder the wires to the lugs.
The size of each lug hole might be 8/32 or 10/32.
" ___ "
" ( 0 o ) "
" ----- "
Best I can do to draw on the key board.
Pinside editor changes the dimensions.
Electronics store? Those still exist? Rip my local radio shacks. 
I’ll have to order with my BR’s for the head. Sucks not having things local to go snag parts quick
1 week later
Thanks!
I have this pdf
http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/Inkochnito_Bridge_Board.pdf
however BK's wire colors can be a tad different. So I wanted to validate before hooking up. Maybe i'll reach out.
EDIT:
I found this
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bridge-board-available-for-williams-games
I'll look at the harness plug and work backward. When I'm done, I'll post up a how to for BK
1 month later
Started working on my BK again!!! oh can't wait to have this baby up. Inkochnito's Bridge Board is installed, need to repin a connector that failed and then clean the pf...and test!
Quoted from jag1:5 mos (took me 3 mos to send the boards in) and $370 lighter in my pocket, my BK is purring like a kitten. Sent my boards into Clive at Coin-Op, and he sent them back with a laundry list of repairs. Thans to Black_Knight, Schwaggs, and others for the trouble shooting tips. I highly recommend Coin-Op for board repairs! My kids and I are loving playing our BK.
Ha! Clive just worked on my BK boards too I also got a set of cliffys to install....
2 weeks later
Quoted from epeabs:Placed and order from Great Plains today for some pins and sockets and some plugs and receptacles, and an extraction tool. I will rebuild the connector once the parts arrive. I the meantime I installed nvram.weebly's Special Solenoid Saver. A super easy 10 minute install with the directions.
[quoted image]
Ohhh, mine is going on route and the weebly solinoid saver would be great! Didn’t know it existed!
Ok, so I re-pinned my connector and for the game up!
0D20B28A-BD0F-4AA4-A887-542F4A4E8128 (resized).jpeg
However every time I boot the game up, it goes to this menu, and I left the manual at home, any clue on how to get it to boot normal, or is this a time thing and it will go to attract mode after x time?
Quoted from epeabs:Make sure your 3 advance buttons are in the up position on the inside of the coin door. Shut the machine off. When you turn it back on, it should be in regular attract mode.
[quoted image]
Ahhhh! Ok I’ll try that! Game is at work so when I run back sometime I’ll test and post back. Hoping to clean and have it on route soon! I put one game on today just to test, man it was fun, so glad I started to like solid state games!
Quoted from gutz:The position of the door switches will not affect the machine upon boot up. Also, only the middle one has up/down latching positions.
Vibe - your game is booting to audit mode. Are the batteries good? Holder good? Battery power getting to the ram? Or did you install nvram?
Once in audit mode, you can turn the machine on/off quickly to get it to attract mode. Or use the coin door switches to travel through the menus. This doesn't fix the underlying issue, and you will have to do it each power up.
Mmm no batteries...boards refurbed and the AA holder is still empty. So you’re sayin I need some batteries....
1 week later
I have a few questions.
I had a lower right flipper that seemed weak. I rebuilt 3 of the 4, and the lower right still wasn’t able to get the ball near the ramp. However after looking, seems like the wrong coil?
Lower right
E455B500-70E4-4F85-B4B0-548710D89C1F (resized).jpeg
Lower left
87B3CC86-F005-4A44-B43F-62630E657362 (resized).jpeg
Also, the left upper flipper, to replace the switch I was taking off the entire bracket, but one screw is under the pf. Are people using short flat head or taking off the upper pf? And actually how do you take off the upper pf?
Quoted from vec-tor:Ummmm... Yea.. 50volt coils on a 28 volt circuit.?????
The two left coils are correct, right? The 30-750?
The two right sides are incorrect. ( lower and upper)
Quoted from northvibe:The two left coils are correct, right? The 30-750?
The two right sides are incorrect. ( lower and upper)
Pulled up the manual from ipdb. Confirmed the coil list, all flippers are the 30-750, ordering 2 to replace the two rights.
The one thing I want to confirm is the drop target springs. I can't find any info on those. Are they the standard pbl drop target reset?
https://www.pinballlife.com/drop-target-reset-spring.html
I have the sleeve kit from marco and when I do the drops. I want to pull them apart, clean and replace the spring. A few of them are not dropping easily like below
1 week later
Whoa, that solenoid saver, I didn't know about. Just ordered one for my BK. It's going on route and that would be super sucky if a coil locked on.
1 week later
Looked in the manual (paper) and at ipdb and cannot find post and rubber list for BK. I see only Marco has red fin posts. Are the ones used in BK the 1" and 1-1/8" posts?
1"
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C-951-7
1-1/8"
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C-952-7
You may have to work with a mm and check each part associated with that fuse to make sure it is properly connected. You can check continuity and for amp/volt at the solenoids but you may have to unsolder a wire or both off the coil to take it out of circuit.
Quoted from Travish:It has a nail
Huh.... what is a good replacement, nail or otherwise? I’m not sure on size/length, but I can swing by the HW store tomorrow.
Excited to play! I took apart the drop target mechs on the upper pf, and man were those dirty.
Quoted from ss-pinball:Price check.
I have a lead on a non-working Black Knight project.
...cosmetically "pretty good"...
...untested...
...the guy wants $1600 which seems pretty steep...
What are Black Knight projects going for these days?
$1600?! That should be a “good” working game. A big project should be 700-800 ish.... unless it is mint with cpr playfield a and plastics etc?
Quoted from epeabs:As @Travish says it is a small nail. I installed a metal post to support the plastic better on my rebuild. I also installed some nice supports behind the upper right drop targets instead of the nails.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Mmmm now I see those nails you’re talking about. Ya I like the screw post better. Dang I have a bag of them at home but already went to work. I’ll snipe one from a post and replace it tomorrow. Thanks!
Quoted from Travish:You could always bend a new wire. It's pretty easy actually.
For the wireform gate? I ordered a new gate, just need the holder thing. Looks like thin steel which wouldn’t be too hard to rebrand a flat piece but that requires my time to source and screw around.
1 week later
Quoted from dmgambone:Thank you Frunch. I’ll see what it costs to repair the boards.
Welcome! I recently sent all my BL boards out for check/repair. I always send mine out on a used game just to make sure they’re ok. It costs less or about what 1 board costs to buy. Totally worth it.
Put my game back together, powered it up before putting all my plastics etc back on. Right flippers worked barely, then stopped working (both). Left work no issue. They worked before tear down.
I tried by passing the weebly fuse board and still nothing. Flipper switch looks ok, I am going to look into the transistor but....any ideas?
Edit: ah, I did just install the correct flipper coil on the right lower as the right had a 50v Coil in it
Quoted from zacaj:There isn't a transistor. Just the relay on the driver board and the connectors.
Ah ok.
Just found an old thread
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-7-black-knight-flipper-problem
Tested my magnasave on the right, not working. Left is. My multimeter isn’t at work
Quoted from Mathazar:I'm starting a topside tear down of my BK today to put in a new playfield protector. How to I remove the upper playfield, or at least move it high enough to get at the turnaround? I've removed what looks to be the screws holding it in, but it still doesn't budge. Thanx in advance...
There are four screws. One on each side (machine philips) and two between those red posts at the back. Once those are free, look underneath, there are harnesses you have to unhook. If you want to really get it out of the way.
Quoted from chaskett:Mine had 5 screws. The fifth is in a deep hole along the top right rail.
Quoted from epeabs:I believe that's accurate. I think mine had five as well and one of them is in that upper right corner and the hole is deep.
I can check when I go back to troubleshoot my flippers. I remember deep hole screws but they only held on the side rails to the pf. Either I forgot or multiple versions?
Quoted from northvibe:Ah ok.
Just found an old thread
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-7-black-knight-flipper-problem
Tested my magnasave on the right, not working. Left is. My multimeter isn’t at work
Ok, so to start, I'll check fuse F4 on the PS board (however 1 fuse blown would mean all flippers/magnets would stop, yes?)
I also see a fuse under the pf on each side near/connected to the magnasave magnet. I will check those as well.
Where does the power separate from ps board to each side? In another thread they mentioned the ground as well. Is there a ground strap for each side? I reinstalled the white/red ground when I put the pf's back in. But was wondering if I missed one.
Quoted from frunch:There's just one white/red wire for ground that gets screwed down with the ground strap in the backbox.
DC voltage for the magnets and flippers (what the schematic is calling (flipper B+) runs from the power supply board at connector 3J3 at pin 4 and 5. The female connector has a blue wire for pin 4 that provides 28VDC to the left flippers and magnet. Next to it at pin 5, there's a grey wire carrying the same DC voltage for the right magnet and flippers. Even if it doesn't fix the problem, i highly recommend replacing the header pins and female connector at 3J3. On both Black Knights I've worked on, replacing those header pins made a notable gain to flipper strength. In one case the flippers weren't working at all and it was just worn out header pins on that connector. I remember the pins had a sort of dull appearance compared to others. Seeing how much more work the flippers perform than the other coils, i suppose it shouldn't have come as a surprise.
Thinking in a different direction, have you verified the magnet button works in switch test?
Thanks.
When I get back to work. I can verify more and also bring my DMM. I have not done any switch test(s) yet. I'll add that to my list!
Found my flipper issue.
The pin on the molex at the power supply board (blue wire for right flippers) wasn’t making good contact with the pin. I found this by doing continuity tests at the flippers and working back through plugs etc to the power board. I have ordered a new molex connector and I’ll repin.
Also I found a band clamp to make my right gate bracket
30B030AF-D26B-4516-BC73-BEEF632B5791 (resized).jpeg 1 week later
Quick question
I got my game up and running. Played a game. Had a ball in the upper lock, and my game ended (ball drain). The locked ball stayed, I waited to see if it would eject but it just stayed there. I started a new game, ball still stayed. I locked a ball up top or hit that shot and it ejected the old ball and kept playing.
I haven’t tested the switch yet but is this normal? Or should it eject locked balls after a game ends?
6F0722C3-60CB-48A2-B1AE-E0BBEF6A023E (resized).jpegQuoted from frunch:Yup, normal behavior. Nothing to worry about!
Oh good! I was kind of scared some logic on the board wasn’t right.
I did fix my right magnet issue, it wasn’t working. I fixed the power so it had power and ground, flippers were working.
I checked the wires and they looked good, then I pulled the fuse and checked it with my dmm. It was super spotty. The metal had corroded/oxidized enough to not work. I cleaned that up. Tested and it’s working!
Almost done fixing the game up! Pretty excited. What color shooter rod spring should I uSe? I have a red? But it is waaaaay to strong and launches the ball up and flies to the drain.
Ok, my BK is so close
I have the cliffys on the game, but they seem to make a lip so the ball has a little harder time ejecting into the trough, never on ball 1 but ball 2 or on a lock. The upper pf lock also has a little lip. Is this an issue? Do people adjust so it’s flush?
F04A0DE4-338A-4165-A795-4FA458ED3FF8 (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpgDoes anyone put Mylar on the magnasave circles? I’m potentially putting this on route and want to keep the playfield decent. The plan was to put a hardtop on years from now but was in no rush... so I’d like to keep it as nice as I can for now. Was worried about the balls grinding and wearing the paint at the magnets
Quoted from Mtkst19:Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. The protector is just a clear non sticky plastic that is held in place from the various playfield items/posts correct? Not like a mylar that sticks to surface.
I'd love a "mint" play field. But realistically I wanna play the game not collect dust because of afraid of wearing it. My playfield is not terrible. So if I can slow down the wear to the point I wont need to hardcap any time soon it I'm ok with that.
Ya, mine is probably the same. It’s in good shape no huge wear. But I’m gonna play it now and route it, then, after probably put a hardtop on it. I have the cpr plastic set waiting
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:Dumb question, If I'm not mistaken the flipper coils use 50v before the eos switch is flipped, but do the coils for the kickout holes and drop target banks also use 50v or is it less?
they are 28v IIRC
coil 19-400/30-750
When I got my BK, there were 2 x 50v coils for flippers and man did they not flip good.
1 week later
I had a little get together to play test my BK and it would randomly do this in the pic. 2’s would scroll, one time it just ejected a locked ball and a game continued, the other time a ball got locked and then it did this but wouldn’t eject a ball. Not sure what is going on or what to look for.
4679D8FD-BDAC-40F4-B1D2-4EBC855B1DC1 (resized).jpegHmmmm interesting. Yeah that pic there was no ball in the lower scoop. I'll check all the scoop, lock and trough switches. Thanks! I am hoping it is that easy!
1 week later
I would also check to make sure the right coils are in the game. I got mine and 50v coils were in two of the flippers making them almost useless (super weak).
Incase anyone knows, the metal posts the rubber caps “screw” on, I need to install actual nuts to the ones on top of the upper pf lock, any idea on thread?
2 weeks later
Quoted from cshelden:Good evening.
In process and stripping the playfield for a Hard Top install. There are several of these posts. Does anyone know if they are threaded into the wood? I removed the nut in back side but it’s in there right. Since no head for a socket I’m presuming it’s jist held in place by the nut. Best practice for removing?
[quoted image]
They should just be held by the nut, maybe try tapping them up from below the pf with a small screw driver that fits in the hole.
1 month later
Quoted from frunch:Chris Hibler here at Pinside has a good reputation here as a board repair tech.
The Coin-Op Cauldron does good work, as well.
I definitely recommend having your original boards repaired instead of buying new 3rd party replacements. Some are good, but original boards are usually quite reliable once they've been gone through by a good tech.
I agree! All my used games the boards get shipped to coin op cauldron for a repair/refurb. I’d rather not have to deal with a board issue while I own it
Quoted from vec-tor:1) 12-6484 switch wire form rod.
2) 12-6505 roll under wire form actuator.
3) 01-6644 roll under bracket
Did anyone find the “bracket” or top part to hold the spinner or wire arm? I thought they were unobtainium now, which is why someone suggested a work clamp section, cut and bent. I still need to do that to mine.
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