(Topic ID: 54503)

Black Knight Club...Members Only!

By mof

6 years ago

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  • 2,095 posts
  • 200 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 hours ago by Mtkst19
  • Topic is favorited by 101 Pinsiders


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#231 5 years ago

Thought this might be the best place to bug about finding L4 EPROMS. I've only got L2.

Side note... has anyone figured out how to adjust the drop target leaf springs without pulling the assembly? I have one that when hit hard - won't drop but does with brushed. I figure the spring is relaxed and it jams when hit fast.

1 week later
#246 5 years ago
Quoted from Toyguy:

Almost forgot, if you look at one of the drop target mechanisms, on the side away from the targets themselves, you will see formed in the mechanism's casing plate 3 small fingers. Look closely at the upper end of those and you should see the loop end of the tension spring around that finger.
For testing, you can grab that loop with some tweezers (I use the lockable type) and pull a couple of extra coils down over the finger, effectively shortening and tightening the spring. If this resolves your issue, you'll want to replace the springs with the new ones from Marco.

I'll try that once I have it up and working again. I think I blew my MPU board replacing the solenoid (F2) with a 5A... which what was in there - without consulting the chart. Long story short I have a replacement Kohout on the way, said they're shipping tomorrow. Then I might still have a solenoid issue somewhere.

I have the cointakers LED Kit in mine. It was missing a couple blue and I used a red in the bonus turnaround.

Marco is a great supplier if you live in the US. The shipping is simply unrealistic if you are shipping to Canada. I ordered the LED Contaker kit and a new shooter rod and springs. It cost me 49.26USD to ship it in a reasonable time. Here were my options:

Canada Post Express 1-2 Weeks: $40.26 USD
USPS Priority 2-4 Weeks: $47.10 USD
Economy Air 4-5 Days: $49.35 USD
Express Air 2-3 Days: $64.68 USD

Most other retailers charge around half that for international orders, so I have to say on that point I'm done with Marco. Its a shame, they have everything.

#250 5 years ago

Its it normal on a BK that the inserts are a hair lower than the clear coat? Going to hazard a no.

#252 5 years ago

When restored a clear layer goes over everything, but can shrink differently over differently over top of different materials?

1 week later
#298 5 years ago

My 2.5A slo blow38V solenoid power supply fuse keep blowing. Any ideas? I recently cooked my MPU and possibly driver board by accidentally putting a an overrated fuse in that spot. I've got a new Kohout MPU/Driver/Power boards in as of today.

2.5A normal fuse blows almost immediately during game play. However the solenoid self check sequence runs through without fail. I ran each individual solenoid around 20+ times to see if one was perhaps drawing to much current.

I'm at a bit of a loss at steps to diagnose the issue. I've checked for resistance across the regular solenoids and they all seem fine. Sometimes the flippers will just stop, but no fuse is blown. A reboot and some short game play again pops the 2.5A fuse.

I think it was a 10A fuse that went into the 2.5A position when it cooked the MPU, which leads me to believe something is terribly wrong somewhere under the PF.

Need some guidance guys.

#301 5 years ago

Bad coil! The kickout to the shooter lane looks like it got shredded by the shooter arm. I'm the Nth owner so I while I've looked at the coil at least what feels like a 100 times in the last month or so, it never registered, since it seemed to work.

When using the normal 2.5A fuse I could get it to blow after what would seem randomly a few minutes. Went back to it tonight and shot the ball around manually with the glass off. Then it drained... then the kicker shot it out of the drain a couple times (think the arm linkage is old) then it simply did not kick a new ball into the shooter lane and the fuse was gone again.

Hmmm... remembered what that coil looked like and it's done.


#302 5 years ago

Hey can I uncoil a layer to remove the damaged section to test? I've got a new one on the way. I think I've read you should remove no more than 20% of the total length/volume.

#303 5 years ago

Point #30. Going to give it a whirl. I figure the worst thing that could happen is blow another fuse.

#304 5 years ago

Humph. That didn't help at all. I've clearly remove the damaged section. I guess that wasn't the issue.

#310 5 years ago
Quoted from boydsc331:

maybe you removed too much and created a short of sort. maybe unhook it all together and manually kick the ball in trough ??

Right. With it connected - not having tried the alternative yet. I've started just triggering random coils. It seems that when the bumper is fired, the ball release coil (drain) is firing as well. That's odd. I suppose if I were to run the game with one coil disconnected at a time, I should be able to isolate.

Anyone see an issue with that methodology?

Finding a 2.5A slow blow at a local store seems to be quite the mission. Auto parts supply seem to have everything but that value.

#315 5 years ago
Quoted from Razor:

Nightflight, I think your PIA for the solonoids is toast. Far left on the driver board maybe a 7402 ic too.

Hope not. It's all new Kohout boards except for the sound board. Still have the outhole/drain kickout firing at the same time as the bumper when triggered. Scratching my noodle with that one and pouring over the switch matrix. The certain drop targets when triggered manually trigger game reset or tilt too.

#318 5 years ago

Finally obtaining a 2A TD fuse for I could use for diagnostics (ran out of fast blo's). The top right 3-bank lower target triggers +10 credits in attract mode. It also triggers the lower right bank while in gameplay - but I can't tell which target. Top right 3-bank center target triggers 2 credits. Top right 3-bank upper target triggers door lock and game reset.

Long story short, I think my switch issue is here:


Can I wire to bypass the last switch?

#319 5 years ago

Okay, your all very polite letting me work out that three lugs on a switch makes no electrical difference. The first lug is not connected to the switch contacts and serves only as a binding location and to jumper the diode. My open connection in the coin door should have no effect other than showing as a normally open switch.

#321 5 years ago

Yeah, I have switch driver line 5 stuck on the diag LED of the khout driver board. Jeff is going to send me parts, assuming an IC is popped. Anyone have any experience properly diagnosing a Khout board? I've been speaking with Jeff via email, but I don't think he really has the time to break it down. I'm going to be away in a week or so, so I'm avoiding international shipping right now. If I can figure out which ICs, I can just get them from mouser.ca overnight.

#322 5 years ago

Well, the SN7406 in IC17 would blow when the bell went off - taking out switch driver line 5. I sacrificed 3 SN7406 hex line buffers to determine that. Disconnected the the switch on the bell and the game seems to play fine again and is no longer seems endlessly possessed. Of course... its just lying in wait before the next thing goes.

There's a cap on the bell switch, I suspect that has dried up and gone to heaven. Also the contacts are really bad so that could be playing part as well.

Does anyone have a mod to replace the bell? I don't actually care for it, nor the fam when they are sleeping.

#323 5 years ago

Nope. Blew the IC17 SN7406 again. The PIA so far as I can tell are fine.

Are any of the switches in the PF supposed to have caps? I've got one on my bumper as well. I think on the relay coils for the magnets as well, but I'll have to look again. Right now the Black Knight wins again and I give up for the day.

#325 5 years ago
Quoted from NightFlight73:

Nope. Blew the IC17 SN7406 again. The PIA so far as I can tell are fine.
Are any of the switches in the PF supposed to have caps? I've got one on my bumper as well. I think on the relay coils for the magnets as well, but I'll have to look again. Right now the Black Knight wins again and I give up for the day.

So the SN7406 blows when the bumper and another coil fire at the same time. I can reproduce it by firing one of the upper bank reset coils and the bumper together. Costs me an IC every time.

Any ideas what the root cause would be?

Also discovered the playfield clear coating around back of the bumper is coming up. Feeling a bit screwed about that. No idea what to do there.

#326 5 years ago

Quick, can someone please post a correctly wired jet bumper? Thanks in advance!

#327 5 years ago

Okay, think I finally got the ghost in the machine!!!

The diode across the jet bumper coil was not making full contact on one leg. Truth be told, the whole soldering job on the upper PF is crap. Odd, but the IC17 7406 would only blow when the bumper and a coil from one of the drop banks would fire at the same time. After fixing that connection I can no longer reproduce the issue. Yay for Kohout diagnostic LEDs and completely socketed ICs. I would have never found that otherwise.

I think I'm going to try some good thick packing tape on the bad clear coat behind the bumper and see if it holds out until spring. Bad idea? I've really had no play time on this thing since I got it. That and I'm out of cash. *sigh*

In the spring I'll build a rotisserie and overhaul the PF electrical connections and coils as well as tackle the clear coat which seems to have bubbled and cracked.

#328 5 years ago
Quoted from maestro:

I plan to go back with full led's. I've read so much about these games having heat and wiring issues from the gi pulling so much amperage. Robertmee, if you are reading this, after I'm done you're welcome to come by and bash this thing.

I've read that not filling the entire back panel with LEDs is better. Gets you less reflection in the glass and gives better contrast to the sections that are lit. I went with the cointaker kit and find it a bit bright. I got some blue LEDs for behind the backglass title (http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2166) which seem to disperse the light. If I did it again I would not go with a kit and just pick them out. But at the time I had no idea what I needed and could not find a definitive guide for this machine.

I also mean to get some diffused warm white LEDs for the GI and get rid all of the harsh cointaker kit LEDs there. They are too harsh when you get them in the eye. Maybe I can sell them or something.

#331 5 years ago

Oy. My drain kicker would fire with the jet bumper as a sign that the 7406 at line drive 5 on IC17 was blown. Doesn't mean it is for you, just my current experience. Do you have an original driver board?

1 week later
#334 5 years ago
Quoted from Farmboss:

I have replaced both the cpu and driver boards from Kohout Pinball pcb a while ago. I think they have some diagostic capabilities but I can't figure out the schematics. I am thinking that if I had a picture of the wire wire on the jet bumper switch it may be all I need.

Just back from VK, I'll try and get in there for you and take a pic today. Are any of the switch Drivers LEDs stuck lit? On the Kohout board its the LED row below IC17. IC17 is in the top right corner. If so you likely have a blown 7406. You can test that by fully powering down and swapping the 7406 with IC18 and if you get a lamp row LED stuck then you need a new 7406 which you can order pretty cheap from mouser and receive it next day. I ordered 20 to diagnose and I blew 8 of them to determine I had a short in the jet bumper diode.

#335 5 years ago

Cleaning out and re-springing my drop targets today so here is the best I could do without yet having a rotisserie.

Wiring from the LEFT
Wiring from the RIGHT

Hope this helps!

#336 5 years ago
Quoted from LEE:

Glad to hear that you fixed you diode issue.
Don't know which LED's are in the CT kit, but I prefer the frosted ones as they tend to disperse better.
The Ablaze LED's seem to be less bright too.

Blew the IC17 7406 again after hitting the jet bumper a couple times. Lost the GI for a fraction of a second while the surge happened. Now that I've posted mine as 'correctly' wired - can anyone confirm that as true? Having purchased a unit with unknown history - nothing can be trusted. The soldering sure as hell isn't factory - if it is I'll eat my hat.

Also, can anyone chip in an tell me how to correctly wire a coil? Does direction matter or is it only the diode that needs to taken into account?

#338 5 years ago

First question, how are you getting that many in the lane? I occasionally get two, after I fiddled with the ejector there. Could switch 17 not be getting released properly?

#348 4 years ago
Quoted from Boise_D:

how about a picture of those bottom flippers? Was it hard to convert them. My poor BK is begging for attention, mostly to the troughs.


I did my bottom flippers first, and have one of the top ones done as of yesterday. The return speed is important up top. The short return time off the bumper and drops finds the ball behind the flipper a lot up there. At least for me it does. The WPC help a lot with that issue.

#349 4 years ago
Quoted from svendmute:

Yes! Finally finished my cpr playfield swap. Turn out extremlely nice. Only thing is that now it plays very fast and the black knight seems unjust and hard on the player. Barely makes 1.000.000 points.
Upgrades made:
-New wpc flippers on all flippers.
-New mosfet transistors on lamp matrix. Both rows and column driver transistors swapped
-new black pompbumper skirt.
- new decals on spinner and drop targets
- new cpr plastic set.
- new post cap plastics and rubbers. Rubbers only on slings.
No leds anywhere, but might consider putting warm white leds behind the backglass to minimise heat.
Total hours approx 60. But didnt count them. Too much fun and a very learning experience since it was my first pf swap.

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I missed the boat on the CPR PF. *cries* But great work!

#350 4 years ago
Quoted from LEE:

Looks to me to be wired correctly. The stripe on the diodes are orientated to the right in my pic. Did you replace the cap w a new one?

P1030835.JPG 222 KB

The orientation of the pic taken into account, my diode is oriented the same as yours. Seems my switch has an extra lug however.

A for the cap, I did this weekend. A pair of 10 PF caps I found in my kit in parallel. Both tested before they went in there. My 22MFD original was reading 40uF on my meter before replacing. So I thought that was it. And in fact my game played for about an hour with new 7406 in IC17. Played so well in fact, I stuck my kid on it for the final test. Needless to say, he blew up another IC. Starting to feel defeated.

#352 4 years ago

So my solenoid 28V voltages, both in/out are sitting at 39.8v, is that too high? The fact that my bell or jet bumper can both blow an IC on the driver board, tells me the issue is further upstream from the PF. Ordered a Kohout system 6 power board and the transformer is in the head. Thats whats in there, but I think this issue predates with the stock power board.

... and 38v is normal as per the kohout power board documentation.

Post edited by NightFlight73: read the documentation

#354 4 years ago

... But this Voltage/Current spike issue has survived power/driver/mpu board replacements. What to do... Keep replacing parts?

1 week later
#360 4 years ago

So to isolate my jet bumper issue (blows IC's randomly/under load).. I swapped it with the shooter lane coil because I had a new one there.

It locked on at blew F2 on power up. Found I had power on the wrong lug of the coil. Should that have created a short condition due to the polarity of the diode being wrong or is the coil just plain bad?

Now solenoid driver 6 is stuck on and fires up the same coil on power up during attract mode. Disconnected the ground lug and find the Kohout diag LED for that solenoid shows lit on power up. All the others check out.

Did I blow a pair of driver transistors? Was it the coil or the backwards connection?

#363 4 years ago
Quoted from mwsmith:

Yep. Hooking up a coil (diode) backwards will take out the driver transistor. Replace the driver, pre-driver & diode. Been there, done that.

Lovely. The BK docs say the ball ramp thrower is (driver 6): Q14, Q25. Kohout says those should line up as IRF9530N (Q14) and IRL520N (Q25). Are those P-Types with a max -100V?

Here is my mouser cart:

1 month later
#365 4 years ago

I did! The part is listed in the schematics, which turned out to be exceptionally easy to decipher once you put your mind to it. Smoking the transistor was the result me troubleshooting by swapping the coils around and hooking one up backwards. Soldering in a new one was pretty straight forward if you have done circuit boards before. Can't say enough good things about the Kohout build quality - you get what you pay for I guess.

In the end, the issue turned out to be the jet bumper coil which would short only once it started to heat up. At least that is my best guess. I still have that coil on my shooter lane kicker, where it doesn't get the same workout and it seems more or less fine. I currently only have one new coil. Once I put it on the jet bumper - the issue of the IC17 blowing after 5-10 minutes of game play disappeared!

In my internet troubleshooting travels - I'd read several times the chances of a coil going bad were slim. Well... I definitely had two coils be the root cause of some very difficult issues to track. I've read people dissuade newbies from re-coiling old machines and to replace the mechanics and sleeves. Fine. But when the machine hits 30+ years old with original parts... switches and coils start to go. I've learned the hard way on this point. Neither bad coil shows a low resistive load either! Both test perfectly fine, but would blow a fuse and some circuitry after some use. EVIL!

But I've learned a lot about this machine in the process. I could have learned more by sticking it out with the original boards. That would have entailed checking all the chips out with a probe to determine which was not signalling correctly. The Kohout boards just light up a diagnostic LED most of the time... so with the provided docs its a cinch to trace backwards to the point of failure.

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