(Topic ID: 54503)

Black Knight Club...Members Only!

By mof

6 years ago

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  • Latest reply 11 hours ago by BlackxDragon
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#2132 3 months ago

Likely not the first time somebody did this mod but here's one I did maybe 10 years ago on my Black Knight to prevent fast balls from flying right back out of the upper multiball lock when it is empty, was really annoying. If a ball is flying far enough up above the switch trough, it glances downward off of this bumper. Has worked flawlessly since I put it in. It's a little sloppy looking with just a piece of 1/2" rubber tubing strapped down with multiple layers of packing tape so it can take the impacts, but it's invisible plus the mod can be reversed.

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#2133 3 months ago

Here's my Black Knight, bought around '85. The owner had it in his living room by itself and he might have even bought it brand new (can't remember, long ago) but the cabinet hasn't a scratch so I could believe it. I've never had to 'fix' anything save for shopping it, and the usual pf cleanings, rubbers, switch cleaning etc. when needed. Doubt the boards have ever been touched, I ain't laid a finger on 'em. I did add a #44 socket under the plastics above the shooter lane and next to the top right flipper that can be reversed also, just looked like they should be lit to me. I can't believe it's been 35 years!

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#2135 3 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Looks good. Cool story. Although I see yours has the mildly-annoying misaligned stencil on the front of the cab. Sometimes the start button is right in the center of the sword handle, and sometimes it's off to the side. Not sure if it's where they drilled the hole, or if they modified the stencil at some point in the run.

I dunno, mine is positioned just like the one in the flyer (button shifted right vs. the handle) and the graphic is centered horizontally on my cabinet. Assuming the one in the flyer was the original stencil, maybe they changed it later?
I stupidly put the game up for sale years ago and I think the one guy who showed up didn't buy it because the blue inserts were faded to the usual dull purple. Gotta be a rare one where those are still the original bluey-blue-blue.

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#2148 3 months ago

Looking at the different cabinets (and mine) I could swear there must have been more than one stencil. On one version each sword handle is centered between the cabinet edge and the coin door (button centered in it), the other they are spread further apart with a much bigger gap between the sword and the coin door. And the red artwork on the horse's face looks different but might just be normal variance? And the black gaps between the horse and the sword seem wide on some, very thin on others, and that's only the yellow so it's not just variance between the positioning of the red and yellow stencils.

#2149 3 months ago

My BK has the offset button, transformer is in the head but it has the System 6 version of the power board, serial #462265.

#2152 3 months ago

Williams factory management meeting, 1980 - "These Black Knights are sellin' like hotcakes, we'll have to hire a dozen more workers, run extra shifts and make another set of stencils. And the credit button is randomly positioned in relation to the artwork, totally unheard of, needs to be fixed. No kidding, I'm looking at the flyer right here. You're the point man on this, Frank, take the ball and run with it."

2 weeks later
#2164 77 days ago

How do these color-capped LEDs look when lit? I did a little experimenting too with making my badly faded blue inserts look more like the BK flyer and repro playfields... just dark, smokey blue. I tried blue LEDs but didn’t like the look, too bright, too pure blue, too garish and neon-ish especially since I'm sticking with #44s otherwise. I’m trying various warm white LEDs with no cap (so looks more like a #44 filament) and differing layers of blue & purple cellophane and 2-sided tape to make colored ‘lenses’ to stick on the top of them. Still dialing in the process and color but looks like this. I made the 2X & 5X purple because those are the only ones that are definitely purplish vs. the others on my BK, what color is left that is. Weird thing is on the flyer and repros the two purple ones on mine just look blue (?)
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#2166 77 days ago

This white LED/color filter thing I did was a special case because these darn blue inserts can fade so much they aren't really doing anything. If faded badly they are pretty close to gray like mine, so you're stuck with the particular hue of the LED instead of the resultant blue color of the insert itself. I've got an 80s Stern and Bally with really dark blue inserts and I use blue LEDs in some of those where a #44 is too dim for my liking and they look great. Funny how these rather 'blank' inserts get interpreted differently, some people reverse it and light the 3x/4x's purple instead, or make the blue drop target timer inserts purple, all kinds of combos out there.

1 week later
#2167 67 days ago

Occasionally the first ball into my BK upper lock would bounce back up a little after it bottomed out and then get stuck behind the last switch wire form and not register, so I’d give a little nudge to knock it loose. Turned out it wasn’t the switch pressure - the tip of the eject arm was slightly peened right at the very tip just enough for a barely-moving ball to get hung up behind it. A half-second on the grinder fixed it. Boy there sure isn’t a lot of clearance there between these eject arms when it is at rest and the bottom of the eject hole. : )

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1 month later
#2177 26 days ago

I saw this on ebay, it's a production topper for BK to advertise how many balls it was set to for 50 cents. I think it went for 200 bucks. I wish somebody would reproduce these! I wonder how these were 'got' back in the day. If it was reproduced you could always rivet your own two little brackets on it. Does anybody have one of these originals on their game?

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#2191 25 days ago
Quoted from HHaase:

I have the same pair, and it just never looked right, so I took it off a long time back. Though the originals are all screwy too with the upside down lions.

Heh I just bought a pair from them on Ebay yesterday too so waiting for them. I didn't even know these existed until I saw the auction or anything about the originals being upside down or the clear edge or not or the color preciseness. The first would bug me more than the other two but oh well they weren't really assembly line factory equipment anyway so I thought I'd see how they look without having to buy a whole set. I was already thinking I might end up preferring them not there.

#2193 25 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I hear you could just screw the plastic pieces on top of the metal return lanes.
Or, put the plastics on standoff and mount them with longer screws.

I figured putting them on top would be the way to do it, otherwise all you have is the plastic and I could see them getting chipped or broken by the ball. But maybe not since my EBD clear inlanes seems to hold up fine and plastics are sturdier than back then.

#2196 24 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I always wanted to see what the return lanes would look like with the plastic mounted
with standoffs would look like. I know Williams had a metal bell spacer that was a low
profile than the normal sizes that are used on the games back then,
I have the size as 21/64" tall; Maybe someday.

Does anybody know if there is an actual backstory to these prototype plastics? All I have found is everybody just calls them prototypes. They weren't on the game on the flyer. Were they simply included in original replacement plastics sets by Williams and that's all anybody knows, or were they really used on a prototype at the factory and if so, how did they mount them (?) Seems strange that they were even produced to begin with, the other Wms games during that era only had the stainless steel return guides not plastic ones, nor decorative plastics on top. Might be more understandable if BK was the first to use steel guides and they'd put plastics on top to jazz them up but it caused issues so they dumped the idea for good. And then on top of it they print the friggin' things upside down, the whole thing is weird.

#2215 23 days ago
Quoted from HHaase:

I have a guess what that add-on board is for. I'm betting it eliminates the 2nd switches on the special solenoid controlled coils..... meaning the pop bumper and slingshots.

Seems like a lot of trouble to go thru just for relatively measly pop and sling scoring that don't have any other major scoring purposes. Even for switch test you can test those without lifting the pf by actuating the mechs manually right? I've never had any problem with the scoring of those on my Wms machine from that era. And why would they bother noting the name of the game on the board, i.e. BK and Firepower so far. Still very weird.

#2219 23 days ago

See what it does if you block the scoring switches with that board plugged in.

#2220 23 days ago

<<Collecting all three arrows again (while still acting in a paired manner) gets the "I cannot defeat thee">>

It says exactly that? It's supposed to say 'I cannot slay you, you win' when a credit is won, 'I cannot defeat thee' isn't listed in the phrases list in the manual and 99% mine never says that. If it does say that and it never should especially for just a target completion would be SUPER weird. When that happens does anything else happen like an odd amount of extra points or a credit or anything?

#2224 23 days ago

If it is a switch doubler causing the goofy target bank behavior it wouldn't still do it when removed. I suppose the switches being doubled like that if somebody indeed did it on purpose as opposed to just a glitch would sort of bypass the problem of one or two targets switches getting real dirty or totally failing, then a player would be more likely to still be able to advance the completions for extra balls and not get all pissed off. That sounds too weird though. And so what does the board do in that Firepower... And the speech phrase that shouldn't happen at that point. Like you said in the vid - weird!

#2225 23 days ago

Finished up the ‘correct the faded blue & green inserts with modified warm white LEDs’ thing on my otherwise-#44-equipped BK so they look as close as I could discern from pics to the original hue and with 44-like brightness level. Used multiple layers of blue and/or purple (or only green) cello as necessary, laminated together with 2-sided tape. For the blues (the worst) I cut into disks big enough to block any white light leakage and applied them to 2X brite warm white no-lens LEDs. Green inserts not as faded, 1 layer of green + tape sealed around 1X clear-lensed LEDs brought ‘em back up to snuff. Already had the LEDs, maybe 5 bucks for the cello.

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#2229 22 days ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

For what it's worth, I played all last night with the board out and.didnt notice a difference. I'll be putting it back in incase it is to do with burning coils but it's an odd thing, that's for sure.

The LED on it, does it ever light up or blink to begin with? Like when game is on, during play, during diagnostics or when activating the coin switches, see if it ever comes on or blinks or flashes. The thread about the one in Firepower doesn't mention if the LED comes on or not either. Course it's always possible the board itself has failed and why you don't see any difference with it in or out, whatever the hell it's supposed to be for.

Is it possible it's related to how a game can't start if the cpu doesn't see all three balls sitting in the trough(s) so this thing somehow bypasses that in case of dirty switch(es)? Board age is only 2 years older than BK and Firepower and that switch thing would kill earnings, those are notorious for being glitchy even after they have been cleaned. Firepower, same thing where it has to see all three balls, and it was their first solid state multiball. Goofy idea, all I can think of.

#2232 17 days ago
Quoted from EilersPark:

A quick update. I picked up a set of these on Ebay from ClassicArcades. Based on the pictures they didn't look like an exact match with the CPR ones, but for the price I thought I would take a chance. The size, shape and fit is good, the artwork is good except it goes all the way out to the edge unlike original or CPR plastics and the deal breaker for me, the green color is off. The CPR ones match the green on the playfield, these don't so I decided not to use them. I'm not upset with ClassicArcades, their price was fair and for some these may work, I'm just picky. Here is a picture to compare.[quoted image]

I’m going to keep the ClassicArcades ones I got this week of the ‘prototype’ lane guides. Yeah these don’t have transparent edges but the green vs. the tiny bit of green there is on my original plastics looks the same to me, and honestly since I put them on I totally forgot they were even there during play especially since they aren’t backlit. Every version has something 'wrong' with it - they either look dumb upside down or the art is non-original because somebody flipped it. If Williams had printed them correctly but still not used them or they had used them on some first run games, even upside down, THEN I’d be obsessed with getting those exact ones even if I had to buy a whole set. And nobody seems to be sure exactly how these were planned to be mounted... like this, or stacked above the guides on posts, or without the steel guides altogether and lit. They are a nice touch though.

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#2238 16 days ago

Wish there was a way to prevent fly-thrus in the ball trough when a thru-the-flippers drained ball comes in so fast and at the right angle that it ends up in the shooter kicker or even all the way to the shooter, without triggering the outhole switch for a sort of free 'extra ball with bonus memory'. Doesn't happen very often at all though, gotta be same issue with other Williams games from around then depending on the layout. Oh well at least it's a freebie as opposed to gipping you.

#2240 15 days ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

I wrote Cliff an email about this upper guide piece. Anyone elses pretty mushroomed? Mine has alot of hop when hitting the rubber. A fast shot up the left ramp can hit the rubber and bounce straight down the centre ramp without touching the flipper.

Mine doesn't any mushrooming there at all but not a lot of mileage on it. Is that just the result of balls shot towards the target bank and glancing off the rubber? Mine does a tiny bit of hop there especially if the ball's really moving, I bet they all do but not enough to prevent a flipper shot or hopping all the way over it and down the ramp. I've always used white rubbers, might be a little skinnier? Where your guide meets the rubber doesn't look dinged at all so maybe you can slightly adjust that end of the guide upwards a teeny bit via the screw holes or the red post or something like that. Maybe if the guides screws are loosened you can push upward while retightening and get a little higher positioning on it.

#2242 15 days ago

Did you verify exactly how much is the 'scoop' effect and how much is just it hitting the rubber by pulling that end of the rubber off and flinging a few balls down there real fast with your finger?

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