Count me in too! Picked up this project machine a couple of weeks ago.

I know own the two machines I grew up with. We had a Big Deal at home, but I spent all my money on BK whenever I could find it.

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Just had rottendog test and fix my boards. Great service from them by the way.

Getting ready to reassemble my BK and thought I'd clean up some wiring first. I have fuses for the rectifiers and ran a across this hack. I guess it's related to the transformer move and GI wiring that I saw in another thread. I can't locate it now does someone have it handy?

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Also if there is someone in the Atlanta area that has brought one of these back to life let me know. I need some serious help! I have plenty of beer if you accept that as payment!

I don't have displays, but I have a new Rottendog power board and a new Kohout sound/voice board combo if anyone is looking.

The new machine arrived today. Looks great and has a fresh Kruzman pf.

Abandoned my project when I found this here in the market.

Needs a little setup after its journey. Looking forward to getting some good playtime in this weekend.

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That sounds like a good idea if you have the budget. Rottendog is plug an play unless they have hacked the wiring harnesses too badly.

However, if there is something on the playfield that is burning it up, you will burn the new board up too.

I have an unused Kohout sound/voice board if you end up needing one of those.

Hans, I'm just trying to get most of my money back. These boards are still in the wrap and never opened. The voice board is unique to BK so not sure that will help you. You should check with Kohout for the sound board only, I don't want to split these yet.

Chosen, have fun with your machine, it's worth the wait.

It's like every thing else in this hobby you can't worry about what they used to sell for only what it is worth today.

What would it cost to have someone restore your playfield and cc it? Probably way more than 900.

I got lucky and found a restored machine with a new bronze pf with kruze cleanup and cc, Mayfair bg and nice cab in the low twos. This was in the last year but I don't think there will be another one like that out there. By the way this one was posted here on pinside so you all missed a great deal.

I'll be buried in this one too. BK is what sucked me into pinball when I was a kid.

Well it's worth 1400 to the owner of one right now.

All the multipliers are the same blue color on my cpr pf.

My other Williams machines group insert colors together.

Id get the same color in all 4.

swampfire did it check with him

You should change the name to the Green Knight.

Sorry, I'm not a fan of those LEDs behind the bg.

Interesting, I've never seen one of those before, figured it was just LEDs.

I've got color matching LEDs in my BK pf, but whites on BG and GI.

I thought it was a bad LED job and it reminded me of this...

bttfLEDs (resized).jpg

Are the outline and trough switches on the same column in the matrix?

Check to see if other functions on it are working. Could be the wire or a diode on that circuit.

The uppers are wired directly to the lowers on the lower coil tabs.

The issue will be bad solder joints on the coil, the coil itself, or something mechanical.

Power goes to the lower flippers first then up to the others. It's related to the lower coil/mech.

You are right it does start at the upper not the lower. I had to open mine up to check.

Check for voltage at the lower coil then make sure you check the solder job on the upper left flipper.

Game will not start without 3 balls in the troughs.

Ah, yeah what are you waiting for...

Those are sweet.

Yes to the triptych.

The thing is, it plays crazy! A new, cc'ed pf on this machine is awesome!!!

I was preparing to refurb a BK when I found a completed one with cpr/Kruzman pf, matched LED's, new bg and a very nice cab. Needless to say, I paid a lot, and sounded crazy at the time. But I couldn't have duplicated it for the price, let alone the time and effort.

And it was worth every penny.

Look up vid’s thread on updating flippers. It includes coils and new mechs.

I highly recommend it to freshen up the feel of the machine.

no

You are right, I did use the 30/750's. I normally don't buy coils unless they are needed, but these came fully assembled so it was easier to buy them that way.

I'd hate to have flippers that acted and felt differently on the same machine, so I did both upper and lower and dont regret it at all.

Both the upper and lower playfields are pretty small, so not sure the 50's are needed - but I'd like to play one that way.

I've got my pitch pretty steep, so the left ramp has to be perfect to make it. Every other shot is great with the upgrades. I'm sure if I lowered the pitch to what it was designed for even the ramp would be easy.

Where are you? Ernie Liffers is in Cumming ‭(770) 889-3000‬.

Schwaggs and I are in north ATL and have BKs if you need help.

Have you done any troubleshooting?

For something like this it’s best to drop it off at his house.

F2 is for solenoids but doesn’t include flippers or magnets.

You could run through the coil test a few times and see where it fails. Might take a few tries and fuses.

You should visually inspect all the coils and look for any issues like bulging wires burnt paper or bad diodes.

Could be physically shorting a coil out so look for anything loose or close to coil tabs.

The eos switch should be normally closed. If the contacts are bad the flipper can be weak.

The flipper mech should open the switch when it is engaged. And reduce power when it is in hold position.

You can use any high voltage switch to accomplish this. I’ve seen plenty of different configs when people didn’t have the factory switch.

But the rule is - if in doubt, throw it out.

Since 'strength' is determined by the coil, and they use the same one, they aren't going to be. And frankly they don't need to be any stronger, they usually just need to be rebuilt.

However the new mechs are designed better and have a couple of advantages:

They are snappier, maybe its the improved linkage design, maybe its the better spring, but they are noticeably more 'active' than the original design.
Removable coil stops. The older coil stops were built in to the mount and could not be replaced. The newer mounts use stops that can be replaced.

All these 40-year old machines have had their flippers replaced many times. And if your machine has original mounts I'll bet you a $1 they are the original stops and are worn down significantly. If they are, any new mechs you put in will get torn up quickly, as the plunger gets pulled in too far.

The point is, if you are rebuilding your flippers, you need to replace everything anyway, including the flipper mount, so why not do the upgrade? You can buy an entire assembly, already put together, including coil for just a couple bucks more than the parts alone. All you need to do is solder in the coil, and you keep the old one as a spare.

I get the feel thing. I like original most of the time, but this upgrade is a no-brainer for me.

If you don't like the feel, buy the old style rebuild kit. But you should still update the mount and stops so you can easily replace in the future. Here's why:

The top plunger was installed by the previous owner right before I bought the machine, maybe 1500 plays since the rebuild. The linkage was not smooth and was binding in both directions.

This happened because the stops were so worn, but not replaced. Original on left, new on right. It's a big difference but there is no mushrooming. Cant get an accurate measurement on the stop but its probably 3/8 not 1/4 inch.

plungers (resized).jpg

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Your boards don’t look that bad, even looks like a recent 40pin replacement. But that other wiring is crazy.

Rottendog is no good for this game. Too many emulation issues and probs with sounds.

I sent my boards to @barakandl. He did a great job for less than buying a rd. Even had him do a spare set incase I found a project without boards.

Love my BK. We used it in the Pinvasion Classics tournament last month. Had to adjust the upper trough lockout, but then played flawlessly for over 200 games that weekend.

Yes the cliffy helps. What pitch do you have it set too? The higher the pitch the more frequent the fly through.

Don’t use sandpaper. Use scotchbrite very lightly.

SpaceAce,

If you need any help I've got 4 sys 7 machines you could look at including a BK in Sandy Springs. Also, swampfire is in Duluth and is always a great resource to help out new pinball guys.

Why not send it back to rdog for repair? He’s fixed my boards for free in the past.

Rebuilt flippers with those coils will work just fine. I upgraded my assemblies per Vid's recommendations.

I'm a little confused on your core problem. How are the flippers working if the game doesn't start. Are you doing this in test mode only?

Start button - if you are able to change settings with the button, then you have proven it works.

If the balls are in the trough, switches 17,18, 19 should show closed on the switch test. You said you tested all the switches, but make sure the balls activate these three switches if you haven't already. Alternatively you can use switches 33, 34 & 17 to simulate balls in the upper trough.

I'm assuming you tested the solenoids to make sure the kicker is working. And there is no change to the displays or sound when you press the button, right?

If you've done all that, then my only advice would be to turn off free play (#18) then add credits and see if that works. I'm not familiar with that board, so not sure if there is a bug or anything.

If those are new assemblies then you still have a power problem to your flippers.

Sounds like you have a logic problem on the start button/board. I’m stumped too.

Is this a multi game board or BK only? If it’s multi you could set it to another system 7 game and see if it starts.

Could this be a power board problem or something?

I was referring to the mpu/driver board here. Not familiar with shwimmer, but rotten dog combo board had issues with BK, but that was in their rom. I always have sys 7 boards laying around so i swap them out if i see something funky like this.

As far as your flippers - If you have a new rottendog power board, then it's more likely a wiring issue than the board.

You should post this outside this thread and see if anyone else has ever seen this on a sys7 machine or with Shwimmer boards.

This isn’t off topic. It’s BK!

Learn to nudge to the right as the ball is coming out. It can be quick, so takes practice.

That way is designed to go to the inlane not the outlane. It's loop, inlane, ramp, for the combo. Lights the lock, ramp hurry up points, and if set up right (and really lucky) you can lock a ball. Best combo in pinball.

Yes. It is possible, but I have only seen it happen a couple of times.

Mirrored.

Next question.

Read this for your flippers https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/46#post-4857092

Vid also has a guide on cleaning playfields. Search for it. It’s worth it.

Pitch is trial and error to find what you like. I like 5.5 degrees.

They can if you upgrade.

Bonz, I upgraded my flippers with full Pinball Life assemblies as Vid describes in his thread. It makes it a very easy replacement and only costs a couple of bucks more. Better springs and coil stops too.

I wouldn't do it any other way, but zacaj is a purist and will disagree with me.

Good Luck.

I like the design, but this is the William's Black Knight Club thread, so it isn't going to fit.

My machine does not have that light socket. It looks like that's the left side lower drop target? If so, mine has one behind the targets, but not under the empty plastic. If you keep it just run the wiring from the existing socket. That must be a product of an early machine too.

As far as your coin question, just set it to free play and ignore the rest. You do that by setting Maximum Credits to 0, in adjustment # 18.

That looks like a white knight not a black one.

Looks like your problem is going to be the pf repair, not the assembly. If you replace it, it will go in the same spot, so not sure how that helps you.

To fix it, get some skewers or dowel rods that fit tightly in the screw holes. Add a little wood glue and let it dry. When you reinstall, make sure to drill pilot holes so you don't rip out the repair with he screw.

Don't forget the spring. If you need to see how it is assembled, the upper trough should be the same or similar enough for you to figure it out.

You aren't going to find these parts, except from someone that's parting out a pf. I'm sure many different Williams games would work if you really want to replace it.

There are two settings that make multi-ball difficult.
#37 - as noted above, you shoot the loop to qualify locks. A decent player will still get at least 1 multi-ball per game
#38 - is worse - memory for ball locks. Without memory, you have to re-qualify and re lock 3 balls after every drain. Makes MB pretty tough.

I set them both to difficult for the SFGE classics tournament and have never changed it back. League guys hate it but it really separates the men from the boys this way.

Don't underestimate the Power of JB Weld for something like this.

It will work in a pinch, and maybe forever.

And you could end up in the Worst Hack Ever thread.

Does it work in coil test or when the machine restarts?
If not, check the power continuity to the coils.

If so check the 3 switches And make sure they are all working independently.

That's column 2 of the lamp matrix.

The matrix is listed on page 9 of the manual. there is a copy here if you don't have one: https://www.ipdb.org/files/310/Williams_1980_Black_Knight_English_Manual_with_paginated_schematics.pdf

Trace the wires for all of those lights and make sure there is continuity and they are not grounding on something loose under the playfield. Where you working under the pf before they went out? If so, you may have just knocked something loose.

If you don't see anything, track down which pin on connector 2J7 it uses and see if there is power there.

Could be a bad diode along the way or on the driver board, or the transistor on the board.

No hinge. Four bolts in the bottom of the head and remove.

There are about 6 wiring harness connectors and a ground wire to the head you need to disconnect. No need to disconnect at the boards.

Mark the connectors with a sharpie or something as there are a couple that are the same and you will blow the board if connected wrong.

I like #2 as well, depending on the PF. Kohout has great boards.

I've got a nice machine with CPR pf, plastics, mayfair BG, LEDs, bulletproofed original boards, and a nice cab. I wouldn't sell it for anything close to 2,500.

GL.

Best advice is to read the manual. It’s not really intuitive like later models but it works fine if you go slow and step through it.

https://www.ipdb.org/files/310/Williams_1980_Black_Knight_English_Manual_with_paginated_schematics.pdf

There's nothing really wrong with it. Unless your plastic is already cracked, it is probably not going to happen under home use.

But if you are worried about it Cliffy sells them as well as a kit for the whole machine.