(Topic ID: 54503)

Black Knight Club...Members Only!


By mof

6 years ago



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There are 2095 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 42.
#401 4 years ago
Quoted from jdzwir123:

Congratulations I just picked mine up on Monday and can't wait to get it up and running.
image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Thanks for the pic, that will be a big help.

#402 4 years ago

Where did you get those custom cards? Looks great!

#403 4 years ago

Sometimes when I turned it on the displays don't come on and sometimes they do come on. Anybody know how to fix that?

#404 4 years ago
Quoted from Gnatty:

Where did you get those custom cards? Looks great!

Thank you! They came from pincardz on Facebook, he has a limited number of pins he makes cards for, and black knight is one of them, find him on face book, and he can tell you how to get them.

#405 4 years ago

My left kicker coil is stuck when it's connected to the driver board.
When I remove the board connector it stops so I'm pretty sure that it's a play field issue.
I'm not sure where to start looking. Has anyone had this problem?

#406 4 years ago
Quoted from jdzwir123:

My left kicker coil is stuck when it's connected to the driver board.
When I remove the board connector it stops so I'm pretty sure that it's a play field issue.
I'm not sure where to start looking. Has anyone had this problem?

Why would you think that? If you remove the 'board' connector and the problem goes away wouldn't that lead you to believe the board is the problem? I'd be looking at Q1 (predriver) or Q2 (power) transistors which drive solenoid 17 the left kicker. That's assuming that the connector you are removing is 2J12.

#407 4 years ago

I read it on a forum. I did replace Q2(the larger one). The problem still persists. I know that any part can go bad but is it really common for the small ones to go bad?

#408 4 years ago

I've got no 28v for solenoids, I'm guessing this may be the problem, I wanted to be sure with you guys...

This was done by the previous owner, and it "worked" when I picked it up, lol

I've got a new power supply, so no issues there, no blown fuses

image.jpg image-532.jpg
#409 4 years ago

Yes, the pre-drivers often go bad....Test Q1. Don't shotgun your board and replace parts without testing them. Everytime you heat your board with an iron you are stressing the traces, solder pads, etc. There are guides in pinwiki and Clay's guides on how to test these transistors.

As a systematic approach, tho, if you remove 2J12 from the driver board (please confirm that this is the connector you are removing) and the sling coil releases, then the ground signal to the coil is coming from the board via 2J12. if the coil doesn't release, then the ground signal is somewhere in the playfield.

If you remove 2J12 and it releases, then the pin associated with sol17 is getting ground from the board. The two most common causes are shorted Q1 and Q2. if those checkout, make sure no traces on the board in that area are shorting out and look clean.

If all that checks out, then you can check the resistors around Q1 and Q2. R7, R8 and R9 I believe. The good news, is that the left kicker is a 'special' solenoid so I don't believe any 'logic' is involved in firing it....just the switch from the PF. So the last order of business is to make sure the left kicker switch isn't shorted. That switch comes in on 2J13, so try removing 2J13. If the coil releases, then the switch is shorted, likely in the PF. These switches don't have diodes but Cap/Resistor in parallel with the switch so make sure those aren't shorted.

This may be where you got confused on what you read...removing 2J13 would help diagnose whether it's a PF problem...but 2J12 does not. That's why I'm asking to confirm which connector you are indeed removing.

#410 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

I've got no 28v for solenoids, I'm guessing this may be the problem, I wanted to be sure with you guys...
This was done by the previous owner, and it "worked" when I picked it up, lol
I've got a new power supply, so no issues there, no blown fuses

28VDC comes off the rectifier BR2 shown behind your hand in your picture. That rectifier has AC or ~ markings, and +,- markings. With your meter on VAC, put the leads on the two terminals marked AC or ~. Do you have AC? Should have roughly 25VAC. If so, then put meter on VDC and put leads on + and -. Do you have 28VDC? If so after the rectifier it goes through some connectors and fuse F2. If you have a good 28VDC at the rectifier, start measuring with your meter along the way to see where you lose it.

#411 4 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

28VDC comes off the rectifier BR2 shown behind your hand in your picture. That rectifier has AC or ~ markings, and +,- markings. With your meter on VAC, put the leads on the two terminals marked AC or ~. Do you have AC? Should have roughly 25VAC. If so, then put meter on VDC and put leads on + and -. Do you have 28VDC? If so after the rectifier it goes through some connectors and fuse F2. If you have a good 28VDC at the rectifier, start measuring with your meter along the way to see where you lose it.

Thank you. The vac is 29 volts, the vdc is 43 volts

I measured the rectifier on the left in the picture, I suppose this is BR2. The orange wire coming from it is disconnected from the harness that goes to the power board.

Am I ok to proceed in re connecting the wire to the harness? Or should I replace the rectifier?

#412 4 years ago

I replaced Q2, I agree I should have tested it first before replacing. I tested Q1 and found that it is really bad, went to radio shack bought a new one. I hope that is the end of this so I can play some pinball. Thank you again for your help.

#413 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Thank you. The vac is 29 volts, the vdc is 43 volts
I measured the rectifier on the left in the picture, I suppose this is BR2. The orange wire coming from it is disconnected from the harness that goes to the power board.
Am I ok to proceed in re connecting the wire to the harness? Or should I replace the rectifier?

Yes, BR2 unloaded will read ~ 40VDC, so rectifier is good. I would reconnect the wire....just make sure it is reconnected to the correct pins on the harness. Follow the schematic when in doubt on IPDB.org...It's a crappy copy, but you can blow it up a bit to read the pin out connections.

#414 4 years ago
Quoted from jdzwir123:

I replaced Q2, I agree I should have tested it first before replacing. I tested Q1 and found that it is really bad, went to radio shack bought a new one. I hope that is the end of this so I can play some pinball. Thank you again for your help.

NP...hopefully that fixes your issue.

#415 4 years ago

Q1 and Q2 replaced. The coil is still locked up.

#416 4 years ago

I fixed my wire issue, got 28volts!

Then started a game, upper left flipper not working. blew the solenoid fuse when the drop targets started to reset, dang, back to checking wiring and diodes, I'd gladly pay someone to fix this sucker after all the work I've got in to her

Thanks for the help robertmee!

#417 4 years ago

The game worked when I picked it up and now the left kicker is locked. Boards have hacks, burns and more.
I guess I'll just buy a new driver board. Any recommendations????????20150519_224241.jpg

#418 4 years ago
Quoted from jdzwir123:

Q1 and Q2 replaced. The coil is still locked up.

Did you pull the switch connector to make sure it's not a shorted switch?

#419 4 years ago

No. I'm new at this and not sure what that is but I have schematics. How does that work?

#421 4 years ago

Homework. Will do.

#422 4 years ago
Quoted from jdzwir123:

No. I'm new at this and not sure what that is but I have schematics. How does that work?

As explained a few posts above;

"If all that checks out, then you can check the resistors around Q1 and Q2. R7, R8 and R9 I believe. The good news, is that the left kicker is a 'special' solenoid so I don't believe any 'logic' is involved in firing it....just the switch from the PF. So the last order of business is to make sure the left kicker switch isn't shorted. That switch comes in on 2J13, so try removing 2J13. If the coil releases, then the switch is shorted, likely in the PF. These switches don't have diodes but Cap/Resistor in parallel with the switch so make sure those aren't shorted."

So, do this, step by step and report back. Use your schematics to verify the connectors:

1) With game off, pull connector 2J12 on driver board. If you look at your schematics you'll see that this connector has the ground from the driver board that goes to the left kicker coil.

2) Turn game on, let boot and start a game. Don't worry if things don't 'work' as this connector you've pulled controls multiple coils. Coil should remain off. If it doesn't then you have a short in the PF for that coil.

3) Push connector 2J12 back on. Be careful while working in the back box with game live as there are voltages in there that will hurt you. The connector 2J12 are grounds to the coils. If you push connector 2J12 on, and the coil turns on, pull the connector back off. Report results.

4) With connector 2J12 off, pull connector 2J13 on driver board. This connector has the switches from the playfield that control the special solenoids. Once pulled, reconnect 2J12. Does the coil turn on again or remain off? Report results.

If the coil turns on in step 3 but not in step 4 then the switch from the left kicker is shorted somewhere. If the coil turns on in both steps 3 and 4 then you likely still have a board issue. Report back.

Caveat: If you are uncomfortable working in the head with the power on, you can turn the game off in between each step and back on, and restart a game.

Based on the fact you state the game worked before you transported it, my guess is a shorted PF switch that got jostled...and maybe a loose wire shorted from the switch. Boards don't usually suddenly go bad from a move, unless coincidentally it was just its time.

#423 4 years ago

In step 3 when I put the connector back on the coil engaged.

#424 4 years ago

In step four the coil turns on again.

#425 4 years ago

When I took the wires for the left and the right kicker coil out of the harness on 2j12 and touched the inside metal part of the back box they would ground and energize the coil and when I removed it they de energize again. So they seem to be functioning correctly on the playfield end of it.

#426 4 years ago

Yes I knew the pf side for the coil was correct...what I had you checking was the pf side of the switch that drives that coil to see if the switch was being seen as always on. So it would appear that by the results of step 4 the board is always sending ground. You can follow the schematics and see where the switch drives the predriver q1 which turns on q2 Through some pull up resistors...using a meter you can try checking each component on the board for function and continuity...use the q3 q4 pair next to it as a comparison. Or send the board to Chris hibler who has the quickest turn around time and let him fix it.

#427 4 years ago

I'm almost wondering at this point if I would be better off buying either a rotten dog or getting a used driver board. There is a lot of black and burned resistors on the right side and I'm almost wondering if it's beyond repair because even when I take the left kicker out of the picture the flippers and other solenoids aren't working correctly. I can remove different things out of the connector and get them to function correctly by touching them on the metal 20150519_224241.jpgside of the back box. Screenshot_2015-05-20-11-43-36.png

I do appreciate all your help, I hope someday that I will be proficient enough help other people with their pins.

#428 4 years ago

That sounds like a good idea if you have the budget. Rottendog is plug an play unless they have hacked the wiring harnesses too badly.

However, if there is something on the playfield that is burning it up, you will burn the new board up too.

#429 4 years ago

I don't think the harnesses were hacked. is there any other options besides rotten dog? it looks like everything is working correctly on the playfield, its on the board where it is having issues.

#430 4 years ago

I'm contemplating on the rottendog board too, Jim , the creator of the rottendog board, encourages either way, but we are dealing with a 30+ year old board, that really needs to be sent off to be refurbished, and the interconnect between the two boards still needs to be replaced every so often.

my board seems to work when all connectors are pushed together really tight, but if I ever so slightly push on my board, it resets, haven't even tried to play a game and nudge the machine to see what that does

Im having to chase down the upper left flipper not working, and the controlled solenoids burning a fuse if anyone knows of a way for me to diagnose quickly?

for the solenoids burning the fuse, I'll start by unplugging all but one solenoid connector, and start a game and get each solenoid to fire and try to pin it down that way I guess, we'll see what happens
(I think it may be one of the drop targets, because the first start of a game, the targets all reset in logic, but only one of the sets actually reset before the fuse burnt)

I don't know how to run through the coils one by one in a test mode, unless someone knows

EDIT: meh, found it in the hand book
how do you guys set freeplay?

#431 4 years ago

I just think replacing with a rotten dog instead of trying to refurbish it would be a better bet. I think it would just make everything perform better.

#432 4 years ago

That lower right side is pretty crispy...Looks like it affected a couple of ICs too that control the lamp blanking. The upper left hack with the red wire is from the Quad Nor gate IC...it's taking the ouput of the Nor Gate to it looks like something in the Left kicker transistor area but I can't tell what. My guess, is that transistor locked on in the past and burnt up the trace from the NOR gate and that was a jump around. You might test IC9 if you have a logic probe...it could be bad and causing your problem. You can compare pins 1, 4, 10 and 13 with 2J13 disconnected, and see if the signals are the same. These signals drive the pre-driver which turns on the driver transistors...pin 1 is for the Q1 pre-driver.

If pin 1 tests different than 4, 10 and 13, check pins 2,3 and 5,6 and 11,12 and 8,9. See if there is any deviation in the pairs. If so, then IC6 could be bad. If all the pairs check the same but pin 1 tests different then it's definitely IC9.

But I'd be really suspect of that red jumper. It's part of the left kicker circuit.

PS: If you don't have a logic probe, you can use a meter on VDC...you'll see low signals (~0V) and high signals (~5V). However, one half of each pair of pins on IC9 are coming from IC6 which is derived from a strobed signal that transitions from high/low rapidly and so your meter value on those pins will jump around.

Incidentally, the BK schematics on IPDB are missing this page for the specials. I had to use Jungle Lord manual here: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1338/Williams_1981_Jungle_Lord_Manual.pdf page 22

#434 4 years ago

Rottendog is good, but I prefer Kohut's boards:

Http://www.pinballpcb.com

#435 4 years ago

I have an unused Kohout sound/voice board if you end up needing one of those.

#436 4 years ago

I appreciate all your insight but I think that it's getting above my pay grade. I'm going to check in to replacing.

#437 4 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

I have an unused Kohout sound/voice board if you end up needing one of those.

How much you asking for those? Been fighting sound issues on my Firepower since I bought the thing.
Maybe a trade of some kind?

-Hans

#438 4 years ago

After months of prep, and crazy work, she lives and lives well

Added GI, including purple hideout with purple GI, upgraded flippers, cliffy protectors and clear coat. Thanks for all the support!

image.jpg image-749.jpg
#439 4 years ago

Hans, I'm just trying to get most of my money back. These boards are still in the wrap and never opened. The voice board is unique to BK so not sure that will help you. You should check with Kohout for the sound board only, I don't want to split these yet.

Chosen, have fun with your machine, it's worth the wait.

#440 4 years ago

I'm having a blast!, but I keep having to feed it credits, how do you guys handle the freeplay?

#441 4 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

I'm having a blast!, but I keep having to feed it credits, how do you guys handle the freeplay?

Max credits #18 = 0, afaicr that's all you need to adjust...
-mof

#442 4 years ago

I think you posted your pic in the wrong thread mof old buddy

#444 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Max credits #18 = 0, afaicr that's all you need to adjust...
-mof

perfect, thank you Mof!

1 week later
#445 4 years ago

A Little present... a fellow posted these elsewhere, I touched them up and made an Old School Version

EDIT:
New better resized and formatted image:
Black Knight Alt Drop Targets.jpg

#446 4 years ago

After 4 years of gathering goodies together,
the black knight LIVES..
new black glass,
new plastics,
new playfield,
new posts,
cabinet painted,
new speaker,
new siderails,
new legs, latch down,ramps, all stainless steel buffed,
new flipper mechs,
new bumper mech,
re con standup target banks,
displays recondition,maybe pinscore ,
lots of NOS,
hoping to get the resto finished in a couple of months..
old PF getting stripped
1 Strip the BK PF ...jpg
BK getting test run in before tear down
002.jpg
getting cabinet ready for painting
009.jpg
BK in the workshop
016.jpg
old PF
020.jpg
goodies getting sorted
021.jpg
more goodies
022.jpg

#447 4 years ago

Suspense!
I like it!

#448 4 years ago

Thanks to chosen_s I got me some nice new drop decals!image.jpg

image-515.jpg image-279.jpg
#449 4 years ago

Those look great!

Your spinner looks like it's upside down!??

#450 4 years ago

Is it?

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