Every one I've seen has a trim nail in there to keep the metal piece from moving.

-Hans

Yes it’s a nail

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Thanks!
So mine didn’t have one when I when I stripped the top.
Easy thing to get though.

Appreciate the help

So I'm working my way through the mechs on my game, doing the drop target banks now. Is there some trick I'm missing to get these things back together easily? I was able to - but felt like I needed 3 hands to balance everything.

If you ever needed to replace 1 spring on these I'm guessing you have no choice but to pull/disassemble the entire target mech...

I've never tried doing that while the mech is still in the machine, but I have found during my BK restore that the drop target mechs are much simpler and easier to disassemble/reassemble vs. early Bally and early Stern (IMO).

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Yeah, they aren't too bad really once you get the mech out, just have to get the bars on there while ensuring the targets stay in place and springs hooked.
Unless there is a way to loosen those bars to the point you can slide out a singular target, you'd certainly have to pull the whole thing.

I struggled with those as well. Springs would come off at the last second. Kept telling myself ok one more try.
I ended up using tape to hold the drops in place.

Smart man, I'll try the tape on my next mech (1 down, 3 to go)

Where did you get the BK drop target stickers?

Marcos. $12 for a complete set. https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/30-7603

Joined the club today, I'm super happy
It has got a few problems though, will have a good time repairing/cleaning:
-No sound, only voice (and repeats everything he says, normal?)
-Weak flippers
-Needs cleaning and new rubbers
-Left magnet makes a lot of noise

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Or use these instead of the boring factory ones...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-knight-clubmembers-only/page/18#post-4173772

Fixed the sound (bad C9 socket and broken PIA at C10) and the weak flippers. Next fix: make the left magnet less noisy. The right magnet makes no sound at all, but when using the left one it (transformer?) makes a lot of sound... Anyone got an idea? The magnet works as intended and is grounded well, it just makes noise..

Check the small coil next to the one making the noise, possibly its making the humm or rattle that some coin doors make when the coil is energized. Also check that the leaf switch is properly spaced when its off and properly engaged when its activated.

Having a hard time deciding between options for replacing the playfield on my BK. CPR just released a new version after many years, but my hopes were dashed when I found out they are still going with starburst inserts rather than the jewel ones on the original, reportedly since not all the molds could be found.

Mirco has had one out for a while now that is claimed to use the jewel inserts throughout (not sure how they sourced the originals), but given the numerous reports of issues with them I'm not sure I want to risk it.

I can keep my stock one that is not horrible but definitely has some wear here and there, go with the CPR one with the non-standard inserts, or go with Mirco.

While CPR is not perfect, I do have 3 repro playfields of theirs (Whirlwind, Flash and Spectrum), and other than getting the Whirlwind one with the odd line in the graphics on the lower half of the playfield I am quite happy with their work, and even that one issue does not really bother me.

Not having seen a BK with starburst inserts, how much of an impact does it have on the look of the game?

Really, people still consider Micro as an option!? Good luck.....

The shoot again text art is incorrect on the CPR one, I’d avoid it for that reason alone.

I recently bought a CPR FT playfield, the first one they sent had blurry black text/lines and also the orange background is more yellow and trees not as sharp.
They sent a replacement that got damaged, corner got bashed so gave me a $100 back. Same tree and orange thing, giving it a good few months to cure/dry before installing and the inserts are sinking as they were level and it started to warp so put rails on both sides, this is in a climate controlled room.
I might as well have gone for the Mirco one instead of waiting years for CPR to do them again.

I put playfield protectors on my BK as was in good condition with cupped inserts and very happy with how it plays and looks, really fast and ramps no problem now.

Wellllll, at least you received customer service! Instead of a bunch of excuses or denial of responsibility. But still that sucks. Unfortunately options are at a minimal.

Unfortunately it’s the same end result, I would rather fit a hard top or playfield protector from now on and be done with it. Life is too short.
Seems like they really need to go to Kruzman to finish the job properly.

Where do Spooky get their playfields from as they don’t seem to have any complaints, at least that’s one thing lol

Totally agree: I can recommend the hard top. Possibly more work to remove, sand/flatten and re-bond all the jeweled inserts (which frankly look better for that game than starburst), and despite a few minor alignment issues, the end result is spectacular. Not everyone likes the hardtop, but it worked for me and I am still happy with it two years later: zero wear and zero issues.

Same here. I'm in the middle of a BK restore as I type.....hardtop/playfield finished, working on the cabinet now. Can't wait to play it again!

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My playfield was exposed for who know how long and the art was destroyed.

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Lacquer just went down today, going to ink around the inserts and do a couple more coats then it'll sit for 30+ days to gas out.

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Nice work, those inserts look really flat.

Thanks!

The arrows were the only ones that were curling slightly on the ends, re-glued them before final sanding.

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My pf is too nice to really do anything to it, but I did finally pull all the arrow inserts and straighten them with heat and reinstalled. Game's spent it's whole life in home use but the inserts still warped over that time. Ball was beginning to make that hippity-hop sound when rolling over the sticky-up ends. The round ones are cupped a little bit, not bad, I might try doing the UV resin thing to them at some point to level them.

The same with mine, I just put playfield protectors on and it plays much better now. Easily making ramps when before not so easy.
The only thing I don’t like is that I have had to increase the magna hold time for the ball to settle, otherwise all good.

I have an older CPR playfield, with the starbursts, and I honestly prefer them over the original jeweled inserts.

With the jeweled ones you can kinda see the bulb at times, and still get bright spots from the filaments. Particularly with the bigger inserts.

Have they fixed the FIGHT AGAIN text or is it still wrong?

My playfield is from the original run, I don’t know about current production. I wasn’t aware there was an issue with that text, was there a difference in the font or something? Here’s a photo of mine.

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From my LE

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Man the CPR print quality sucks so bad. Every time I see it against an original I'm blown away. Just black blobs everywhere

My apologies to CPR on the Fight Again, it was Mircos that got the fight again wording wrong. Which on that is the least of the possible issues...

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That’s absurd! They thought nobody would notice?

I understand they might not be perfect but I'm happy to know that CPR, Mirco and Outside Edge give us some options. These are small companies with not a lot of staff. I think CPR has 8-10 employees and some of them have full time jobs outside of the hobby.

To me, what these folks produce is a lot better than having worn, flaking playfields with raised/cupped/loose inserts in a game.

I tend to not be too harsh on repros. After all, most people tend to not notice the misprinted outlanes on almost every original Williams playfield on BK. Don’t even get me started on the leaf switches. That went on for years.

I wouldn't mind if they acknowledged they were selling inferior products, but CPR basically attacks you if you even bring it up and refuses to admit there's ever any issues. Not a good way to run a business. And no chance of them ever trying to improve if they won't see that they still have work to do

Yep. If we could have Hardtop level art on a wood playfield that would be the Pièce de résistance.

Hey Guys;

I can explain the starburst inserts easily. On our original run we had to use Starburst inserts because there were no jeweled inserts anywhere. But I believe we we did use the original films so the art was the exact same. On our latest run we had discovered an insert maker that had what we thought was all the jeweled inserts and we made a small run (under 20 PFs) BUT it turned out they didn't have the jeweled arrows so using some jeweled and some starburst seemed like it would be wrong so we again chose to go with the starburst as it gives the installed PF a more modern look and definitely makes the inserts light better vs plain bottom or even jeweled inserts.

Mirco make's his own inserts so he just went and made his own. Years ago we even used a lot of Mirco inserts but they are designed much differently than original inserts to facilitate his manufacturing process. His PFs have no lip for the insert to sit on like the original PFs did so we had to custom fit each of his inserts which was time consuming and a little inaccurate. I know this has caused him a lot of grief in the past but it does make it easier to make PFs with his robot glue setup.

People always talk about inserts sinking in the PFs but at least in our case that is impossible because the insert is sitting squarely on a lip inside the PF. What people do see though is the clear setting up. We put our clear on much thicker than any original manufacturer ever did and as the clear cures you can see the contours of the surface below. When we silk screened everything you could even see the thickness of the original ink in the clear. The issue was when the PF was new the clear hadn't fully set up yet, it was still hard as a rock but over the next months and years the clear shrinks a little more and you can discern some of the surface details below. That's why when you send a PF to one of the aftermarket clear coaters they take a long time to get them back to you, its not that they are working non stop for a year on your PF, they are waiting for the clear they have put on the cure down so they can sand it level again. We've done it in the past but obviously we can't hold all our PFs for 12-18 months before they are sold.

I sometimes hear complaints about customer service and I'm surprised for sure. We are no means perfect, errrr or even close but we do try to answer everybody and always try to make it right. We have always offered a full refund to any unhappy customer often way past what is reasonable for a small business. We also offer small discounts and sometimes offer other creative fixes too. We aren't Amazon or Walmart and any customer can always just return any item they don't want. Some do, but its a VERY small number each year. Its funny though how people will hit Pinside to complain about an perceived error and then never contact us about it and it can't get fixed if we don't know about the issue. We do try to correct issues as they come up with any product, we have done many many fixes over the years and with our smaller batches the fixes become apparent much quicker. When we silk screened everything and someone pointed out a possible error we may have to sell more than a hundred of the items (years of sales) before we remade it and had a chance to fix the issue. Currently, these issues are fixed in art or CAD files right away and with the runs being so small they actually often are in finished products just a few months later.

Thanks
Mike

The ball keeps blasting through the lock when no balls are locked... Even the slowest shots still make the ball fly through, so locking a ball is tough as nails.. Anyone got an idea on how to fix that? Thanks!

Ah yes - the old "fly-through" problem. Very common. There are a couple of ways to fix this, but I found that the simplest is the recommended foam block taped to the top of the 3 ball area, or to the side. Mine is on the side, and 1% of the balls still fly through, so I think the top mounted one is probably better. I actually like my 1% fly-through solution as a reminder that this is a feature of the game. For the "top" installation, the foam block is mounted either to the plastic or the to metal plate. The advantage of the side mounted one is you test and adjust the location before putting the plastic back, and I prefer to have taped to metal instead of plastic.

Going by memory - I just used 1/4" thick foam with tape pre-applied to one side. Lowes or Home Depot should have that in stock.

Here is a pic of my installation.

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Thanks Mike - great response and I appreciate the explanation. And yes, you are right, there are bad suppliers and bad customers. I can personally vouch for CPR and your awesome customer service as you fixed the printing error in my BK backglass by shipping a brand new fixed one. Your communication was prompt, excellent, and your customer service top notch!

Count me in for a BK2000 playfield if you ever decide to make one!

And I miss Halifax - it's been too long since my last visit there.

I also use a small piece of foam like Michel_K17 which does radically reduce the fly-throughs. Cliffy makes a protector for that edge and I put one in my BK as well....that, along with the foam piece, pretty much eliminates all fly-throughs. Every once in a while, if I hit it just right and wicked hard, it'll still fly through but it's rare. I say maybe 1 or 2 times out of a hundred.

Here's a shot of my Cliffy before I tore down my BK for restoration. And yes, I removed the protective film from the Cliffy during the restoration, lol.

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Where is everyone getting rails these days now that resse rails seem to be done?

Pic from earlier in the thread from frunch - I did a similar thing on mine with a ball gate frame turned upside down with an angle, there is NO WAY a ball can fly through the lock. The gate stops it, and it drops. 100% locks.

I can't find the pic I took of it a while ago I thought it would be here in the thread but it's not.... have to organize my pics at some point.

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I taped a piece of rubber in the right spot under the steel plate that sits over the upper lock, with mylar tape (simple and not pretty but you can't see it anyway). Balls that are really flying glance off of the rubber and stay in the lock, never had a ball get past it since.

Good thing you have the steel plate... missing from some games!

Seems like a part that would be easy to reproduce since it's just a flat piece. Or make it out of clear Lexan instead, then try to squeeze some new GI under there to light the plastic. Of course then the piece of rubber thing would have to be ditched for the other methods.

Hey All,
So I'm finishing up a hardtop install, and was able to hook everything back up to start up the game.
Before I did, I noticed that the batteries had started to leak on the holder, so I removed the holder and used vinegar on the board and contacts where the holder was, followed by some iso alcohol. When I start up the game I have the "2500 4" in the upper left display.
With the coin door open I can power cycle the game and it goes right to attract mode, and I can coin up and start a game. There is no digit reading on the LED on the CPU board.

I'm assuming this is normal as there are no batteries installed?

yes