The lack of wear is weird. I’m happy it’s just mostly dirty, but I agree that the normal places are not there. I say weird because the rest of the machine is trashed, smells bad, etc.

I have hope. Did some test cleaning.

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Maybe the dirt protected the playfield from wear, lol.

You hit it exactly. The switches on the locked/drained shots were not registering that a ball was in place. So I would try to start a game but the game thought there was only 1 or 2 balls on the field. Cleaned those switches and the game starts up fine and plays fine but other spots need cleaning. At least its no board need replacing.

Since I replaced the batteries with a remote mount I thought I messed up something there.

Since the game did not start it would not pop up the drop targets. But it was all due to not registering 3 balls into the field. The drop targets are still sticky and need love, but the game play alright.

Lesson learned it may be the small components you aren't thinking of that are your biggest headaches. And finding/fixing those could save you time and money.

So the boards have quite a bit of alkaline damage and I’m just going to start clean with kohout.

I wanted to figure out how long the batteries were in there, but they are so old that they don’t have a best used by date.

Had to base it off the logo. Energizer used this logo from 87-93. So potentially 30 year old batteries.

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Just joined the club I’m looking for a sound and speech board any one have an extra? I also am looking for the very back left plastic that covers the ball lock and left ramp.

Thanks
Joe

Aftermarket sound/speech boards are available:
https://nvram.weebly.com/wms-d8224-square-sound--speech.html

Looking for some help with an odd speech issue. Speech works when I use the test button, but not in game. In game when there is speech, it sounds like static and someone whistling over it. Almost like someone whistling at a ballgame.

The whistling is one of the sounds the game can make, it sounds like yours game is playing it at the wrong time. This can happen if one or more of the signals from the CPU board are not making it to the Sound board properly. They leave the CPU board on J8 (right side of the CPU board) and enter the sound board on J3 (left most on the top of the sound board).

Try reseating these to see if that makes a difference. If you haven't already, you should reflow the solder on these header pins (all the pins on these boards for that matter).

If that doesn't help, run the sound test in diagnostics (instructions in the instruction booklet). This test verifies the connection between the CPU and sound board. Pressing the diagnostic button on the sound board itself only verifies the soundboard and ROMS themselves are functioning. The diagnostic test triggers each signal line one at a time. From this, you should be able to tell which one is not making it to the sound board. From there you can trace it to a wiring problem or a dead output on IC36 (PIA).

Thank you! This helps a lot. I should be able to track down the issue with this info.

Two questions regarding the 1980's Black Knight 1) when the ramp bonus is lit, what tells the machine that you have sent a ball up the middle ramp? and 2) I don't have a gate at the top of the middle ramp. Should I try to add it and Are they available?
Thanks for any information.
Jim

It may take some searching around, but you should have that gate for the middle ramp. It looks like this:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-6505

Marco's is out of stock on it but I haven't looked at any more places.

More importantly, do you have the hardware/bracket for the gate or is that missing as well? On the underside of the playfield in that area...is the wiring and switch for the gate present/disconnected? That's what tells the game to award the Bonus/Mystery scores....the ball goes up the ramp and enters the upper playfield passing thru the gate, the gate activates the switch, and scores.

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Here's the parts diagram for that whole assembly, with part numbers.
Can probably skip the right side post though in this case, since Black Knight uses one of the ribbed red posts in that location.
Was a somewhat generic assembly.

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perfect information. I see the switch, but need three pieces, 12-6505, 12-6484, and 01-6644. Much appreciated for your fast and excellent response.

I think this part may be the whole assembly and it’s in stock. I would email them or call to confirm. Some of my the parts references on marco seems to be not complete.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-11235

And just so you don't drive yourself nuts trying to adjust it - it also will score the mystery in multiball if a ball comes DOWN the ramp.

Does anyone know where I can source reproduction cabinet labels? I’m overhauling my BK. Would like to replace the adjustments pouch and back box warning and information cards. Also on the back of the cabinet the factory game decal. Mine is missing or worn off.

I also have a rebuild thread. Welcome input and thoughts.

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You can find a lot of good stuff here: http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

Getting closer. Sprayed some Sherwin Williams Emerald a bit ago. Still wet in pic. Should flatten a bit. So far I really like this paint.

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I have seen 3 machines now that all have the same problem. The plastic on the left side of the machine all wrarps in the same way. I already have to order new plastics but want to avoid this on the new one.

Is the light underneath too hot and melting the plastic in some small way? Not fitting properly and bending into place? Bent by ball hits?

Has anyone solved this on their black night?

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Looks to me like the posts are taller than the wood rail and the screw is bending it down? Mine isn't sagging like that though...

One question... Has there been anyone out there who has rewritten the code to change the ruleset? I would like to see a change in the rules that you light the loop special during regular gameplay instead of only the bonus ball. Perhaps you can light special after completing all four sets of drop targets for the second time... and every two time after that.

I haven't done that, but I made a small mod to change the extra ball to award points. Gives a fun little 'jackpot' to go for, especially if you get it at 3x during multiball

On mine the upper right length of the plastic rides on top of the edge of the ramp, raising that edge up higher than where it would normally rest. Doesn't seem to be enough clearance for it to totally fit into that space between the side rail and the ramp. But in 30 years I never even noticed it until I just now looked so I don't see it as a big deal.

You mean all 4 sets 3 times first time extra ball second time special? That's eminently doable. I've been toying around with ideas to have the on-playfield special light during the game too.

Not sure what else would have to light it, there's not a lot else on BK to work with - drop banks would have to be it.

I have fixed a fair amount of distorting plastics using a heat gun and laying them between layers of scrap glass. To help reduce future distortion I do the following : change out to led to generate less heat, lay the plastic down and only install one screw and ensure the other remaining screw holes are fully inside the other plastic cut slots or holes. If a screw is installed with the screw hole off slightly it puts pressure on the plastic and it will eventually deform. File the holes slightly using a round file, Also don’t over tighten them as this will also cause them to bend up and cup.

Lol only code change I ever did was to make the pop bumper flash when you hit it. My skills for code are not great

Just joined the club. Scored a wishlist game. Love the play and taunts.

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Hi Y'all,

This thread has been SO HELPFUL since I got my BK, thank you! Your pics, advice and descriptions are really helpful for someone who is a first-time owner of this game (or any Sys 7 game for that matter).

So, here's my head-scratcher: a few days ago, while playing, the lower left flipper went dead (upper L still functioned). I looked through this thread and did some unseating/reseating of the power side harness, brushed up the pins, looked for weird solder joints, etc. No dice. I looked at the schematic per your advice and saw that 2J12-1 and 2J12-2 are where the flipper grounds are, so I checked out that wiring harness. This is what I found (see image).

It appears that someone has soldered together the two incoming orange flipper wires, then split them back out into pins 1 & 2? And then there are two clipped orange wires? My question is: WHY WOULD SOMEONE DO THIS?

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Also... I should note... as you may have noticed I am using the replacement Rottendog MPU 327 replacement board. I know it has issues with BK, and I am waiting on a better option, but here we are.

Also curious, after snapping this pic I plugged 2J12 back in, and then the lower R flipper and upper L flipper were also dead. Now just upper R works. Doesn't make for a very exciting game of pinball, to be sure!

The universal answer to this question is almost always "because they are a moron".

Pinball PCB for the win, here. Best replacement boardset to stay stock style (assuming you can't get working originals)

If the upper PF flippers work but the lower does not, you should look at the cabinet switch (there are separate switches for upper and lower) as well as the connector between the upper and lower playfields.

Check that you have power at the coil of the non-working coil.

With the power off, measure the resistance of the non-working coil.

Also the connector from the head, I have/had same behavior on mine and it's one of the connectors between the head and the playfield. I need to get in and replace that as it fails at parties all the time... IIRC It's 0062 pins but I don't have an extractor for those pins handy (it's lost somewhere, assuming I ever had one)

Williams split the ground and power sides of the flipper circuit into left and right. That connector is the ground side of the circuit. The separation continues through the flipper control relay on the driver board. An operator most likely did that patch to get around a 1/2 failed relay.

That being said, I don’t know how both sides of the flippers work with one of the orange wires disconnected unless there is a similar hack further down the circuit.

Couple things now that I've had Bk for a few days.

A few lights are out, I've checked the bulbs. They have diode on fixture. Do I have to disconnect the diode to test? Does anyone know the lamp part number

The pop bumper and the left and right kickers stopped working. I've traced it to what looks like a capacitor on the leaf switch thats disconnected. Does anyone know the size of the capacitor?

The cap is 22uf 16V

These caps will not stop your coils from working. They would sometimes fail closed locking the coil on so some operators would cut them out before that happened.

Did you check the solenoid fuse on the power supply board?

I did, I didn't take a picture of the one on the right coil. It was attached when I got it. Then was floating after a day. But was broken where wire attached to it. I did my best to reattach it. Worked for 2 games then stopped again

Schwaggs slochar You are heroes to this thread as always, thank you! I will test the power at the coils, check out the cabinet switches and be sure to check the connector from the PF to the backbox. Really appreciate it! What are the odds that this jinky "band-aid" fix is causing the problem, given that it operated OK with this goofy fix earlier?

Not the solenoid fuse. Problem keeps moving around. So Now I go and repin everything. .

I have some playfield lights out. I've changed bulbs. They all have diodes. Could they be bad? How would I properly test

Have you gone through all the items in the bullet proofing thread? For sure re-flowing solder on all the header pins of all the boards and replacing the 40 pin inter-board connector. You will keep chasing gremlins until you do.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6

I have this in my rehab thread but thought you guys would appreciate this. I had to completely rebuild the insert. Wherever my Black Knight set for the last 30 years, it was damp. So it corroded all the sockets, staples, and made the insert swell. I stripped it clean and screwed it to a new sheet of MDF and then used that as a template.

All new sockets and wiring.

Old

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New

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Few pics of the cabinet paint job. Now to assemble.

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So I sold my BK that was fully working and dialed in to another person, but they are having issues after setting it up. He said on first boot the left flippers locked on and it would not start. Then after trying to diagnose, his ground braid that goes to the wing nut in the back box fell down and hot the main fuse and blew the house breaker. Now it gets nothing but GI lighting. I took the boards back to try to see what happened and it is locked up with a zero and both LEDs locked on the mpu.

Game already had PS rebuilt, sockets replaced, all header pins replaced and the 40 pin interconnect on both boards as well and was fully working after that. I am gonna start through pinwiki or Clay's guides for the boards but the flippers locking on seems very odd to me. I first suspected that he mixed up the white and black connectors but he says he didn't. Has anyone seen anything like this?

The flipper locking on is a clue. BK has no electronics other than the flipper relay in the flipper circuit. It appears he must have swapped some connectors.

Thanks. Thats kinda what I suspected. I did emphasize the black / white connector similarity when he took it. I feel bad though and will try to get this up and running for him. It seems like many of the 74xx series ic's have one or more legs shorted to ground that are part of a gate. Seems like a bad sign. This is probably gonna be a major rebuild. I wish I had a working sys 7 board to compare values of the ic legs.

Yep, this is what happens when you swap those 2 connectors. You can't depend on the factory being all black or all white on each, either - I've seen them with every combination. Flippers lock on..... solenoid voltage down the +5 rail IIRC.

Not a cheap repair in terms of time/labor, or if you just replace the boards, money.

Do you suspect I will need to replace every IC at that point? I am guessing Leon's roms won't even help to get started if that kind of voltage went down the 5v side.
Whats also frustrating is that my gq-4x4 doesn't have the rom types listed so I can't test them even. I guess I need to change over to 2716's and 2732's to just get started on this.

So stupid they used the same connector without either A) using different gender or B) wire them in such a way as to ensure when cross connected nothing bad happens or maybe only fuses blow.

YMMV/FWIW etc, Joe's Classic Video Games on Youtube recently had a BK series that dealt with this very issue. He ended up replacing a good number of chips. YIkes, what a pain.

You should be able to use a logic probe on the chips to check for activity in/out, sometimes you're lucky and it's only the eproms that get hosed.... but usually not.

2532 can be programmed/read as 2732 with an adapter:
http://www.thegleek.com/bobroberts/mspacrom.html

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Hey all, joined the club a couple weeks ago. This is my first non-dmd pin. I have a few questions.

1. The wood rails aren't painted black. It seems like they should be. Is this stock or did someone replace these and neglected to paint them?PXL_20211024_194300478 (resized).jpg

2. The lower playfield has a bunch of dirty looking swirls. Novus 1 isn't doing much if anything. I was thinking it was just how the artwork looks but after sifting through pics of others' playfields it seems it is just dirty. I've never used novus 2 because I've never needed to, so I guess I'm a bit nervous to use it and end up scratching the playfield artwork. I guess I'm looking for confirmation that I should use novus 2. Or is there something else you'd recommend?PXL_20211024_192926192 (resized).jpgPXL_20211024_192932303 (resized).jpg