(Topic ID: 54503)

Black Knight Club...Members Only!


By mof

7 years ago



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There are 2276 posts in this topic. You are on page 27 of 46.
#1301 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Is the ball actually hitting that? It's probably going to be centered from the plunger lane

I am not sure. But I am about to work on several bits of the game, so I figured I would look deeper at it. But you bring a good point. Don't sweat it if it's not an issue. Last week I took a ton of photos of all aspects of the game so I had a good set for before / after photos, and / or if things go south for any reason, I have lots of reference images. I had not really noticed this before. But as I was looking through the photos I saw that it looked out of alignment.

#1302 1 year ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

I am not sure. But I am about to work on several bits of the game, so I figured I would look deeper at it. But you bring a good point. Don't sweat it if it's not an issue. Last week I took a ton of photos of all aspects of the game so I had a good set for before / after photos, and / or if things go south for any reason, I have lots of reference images. I had not really noticed this before. But as I was looking through the photos I saw that it looked out of alignment.

I've been meaning to take my loop thingy off and clean the inside sometime. I'm sure it's horrible

#1303 1 year ago

Do you have a iPhone? You could do a slow motion video and see if it actually contacts the guide rail.

#1304 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

Do you have a iPhone? You could do a slow motion video and see if it actually contacts the guide rail.

I have a Pixel 2 which can also do 240 frames per second. It's a very good idea Travish!

#1305 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I've been meaning to take my loop thingy off and clean the inside sometime. I'm sure it's horrible

The ramps look to be stainless, but when I looked into my loop thingy (heh... elegant name) it too was not pretty. I am thinking this will be a wire wheel on a drill. Given that lubes are bad news for pins, I have been thinking about what to put on the metal afterwards to prevent new rust. I could hit it with a coat of clear, but I worry that it will fall apart over time and cause a mess of flakes.

#1306 1 year ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

The ramps look to be stainless, but when I looked into my loop thingy (heh... elegant name) it too was not pretty. I am thinking this will be a wire wheel on a drill. Given that lubes are bad news for pins, I have been thinking about what to put on the metal afterwards to prevent new rust. I could hit it with a coat of clear, but I worry that it will fall apart over time and cause a mess of flakes.

Mylar strip maybe? It'd be cool if cliffy or someone could make a nice replacement

#1307 1 year ago

I wouldn't use a wire wheel. Use really fine (like 1000 grit) sandpaper longwise. Just like you do for regraining the rails. Since it's stainless you don't need to do anything except wipe them down to make sure all the residue from sanding is cleaned. I make custom stainless rails and guides with my shear and break and you can't tell them from factory.

Edit: the side rail is stainless but the "loop thing" appears to be anodized/plated steel.

#1308 1 year ago

Don’t use sandpaper. Use scotchbrite very lightly.

#1309 1 year ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Don’t use sandpaper. Use scotchbrite very lightly.

I used a high grit wet sandpaper on all of my stainless ball guides and ramps. The came out beautifully only problem is that the lines start showing up again as you play the game more. I think that's inevitable.

#1310 1 year ago

travish, Hey I went and did a recording. It's funny, even at high framerates, the pinball passes so fast. So, I used quicktime so I could just page though the frames so at least the movement was visible. I then took a screen capture of the window (hence the odd frame size). It is right on the edge. It's possible that it's just barely scraping, but that's just a raw metal edge and thinking that each of these balls is going to hit this every game, it will start to wear.
Edit... I am not sure why the image is not showing up. It looks like a dead link, but it's not.

I am wondering if I might be able to make a little plastic inner shell. Something that gives the ball enough room to fly through, but covers any rough edges on the back side and as it's coming out. Perhaps even a vacuform sort of thing.

This is the first time I have touched these pinballs for a few years. They desperately need to be replaced. I have pulled them out. If I need to roll something around I will do it, but, they are pulled for now.

#1311 1 year ago

Get a small metal punch and a hammer and tap that nail back into place. I just did this with mine. Problem solved.

2018-09-17 20.52.15 (resized).jpg
#1312 1 year ago
Quoted from chaskett:

Get a small metal punch and a hammer and tap that nail back into place. I just did this with mine. Problem solved.[quoted image]

I was looking at that. But the ball seems to travel right under the nail. I would think it would deflect off the wall if it was touching the nail. But perhaps the speed causing the compensation. Was it causing a problem? This is where I was thinking that if I pulled the guide off the wood, and carved it down just a little, it might meet up flush with the metal u-turn thing.

#1313 1 year ago

I dealt with the same problem on my BK at some point, SpaceAce. The solution was exactly what chaskett said--make sure that nail on the metal guide rail is firmly pressing the guide rail into the wood next to it. Just like he said, a good whack with a nail punch might just be the solution. Good luck!

One other thought: you said you pulled the game out of storage recently. Has it been properly leveled since? I'm wondering if maybe the playfield is flexing a little bit or something due to an unleveled stance. That's more of a shot in the dark though.

#1314 1 year ago

Hey frunch
No, not pulled from storage. It's always sat where it is right now. When I found the machine the people whom I bought it from had it sitting on the floor with the legs and head off. It's been set up in my place and in the same place for it's life with me. But following your same thought, I had pulled the playfield up and tried to shift it. I was looking at the little leggy things that sit under the metal glass guard lock thing (apron, or is the apron the black part with BLACK KNIGHT with the cards on it?) Anyway, I was looking at that seeing that there was a couple mm of space to the left and right, so I tried shifting everything left. But I guess all that stuff is all tied together. But, yeah, I will try what you guys are suggesting. I am open to anything. I wanna make this thing sing.

In a positive note, I pulled out my box of arcade goodies (all my spare pushbuttons, leafs, balls, lamps, ... parts) and found that I did have the plastic for the lower area next to the left ramp. It's in perfect shape aside from being a little warped. I remember now that it never fit right because of the warpage and it was fighting with the plastic from the upper playfield. So I left it off. Thanks to this site, I have found a couple of solutions for how to unwarp plastics, so this is a fixable thing.
Missing_Plastic (resized).jpg

Lastly, and to add some interest / mystery to what's going on with a Limited Edition... I looked at the serial numbers last night. I made a comp in photoshop of the serial number on the box, and the serial number which I found in the head. They do not match at all. So, first, I suppose I should ask, are they supposed to? The box serial places it safely within the time of the LE release. The head serial places it more in the early portion of the original release. So... Wassup widdat?

Serials (resized).jpg

#1315 1 year ago

It's possible someone got them mixed up if they had both disassembled at a warehouse, but I'm curious where the lower transformer in your newer box would have gone then. Can you take a pic of the platform in the back down there?

#1316 1 year ago

When you say platform, do you mean the board that is crossing the lower box sort of towards the back? If so, I have a photo... It's just a fuse and an emi filter. The transformer is in the head.

Filter (resized).jpg
#1317 1 year ago

That's what I meant. Doesn't look anything like mine though. Wonder if it was transplanted

#1318 1 year ago
Quoted from frunch:

I dealt with the same problem on my BK at some point, SpaceAce. The solution was exactly what chaskett said--make sure that nail on the metal guide rail is firmly pressing the guide rail into the wood next to it. Just like he said, a good whack with a nail punch might just be the solution. Good luck!
One other thought: you said you pulled the game out of storage recently. Has it been properly leveled since? I'm wondering if maybe the playfield is flexing a little bit or something due to an unleveled stance. That's more of a shot in the dark though.

Keep an eye on the guide and nail after several plays. Chances are the hole is worn and the nail will pull out again. You might have to pull the nail with tweezers or needle nose pliers, break off a toothpick in the hole, and then reinsert the nail with a small hammer and punch. Here are the tools i used for the job and i didn't have to remove anything from the playfield.
1537291686631-1201932192 (resized).jpg

#1319 1 year ago

So... What is this thing, and what does it do? (not the volume pot, the metal bracket above the pot).

BracketThing (resized).jpg
#1320 1 year ago

Lifting the playfield...
I know we can use the little retractable arm to keep the playfield lifted, but it worries me every time I do it. There are several things that concern me about it.
1. Given that the support is only on one side, I can not imagine that the amount of flex is good for anything in the machine.
2. It's just a little point, so I am worried that I might bump the PF and have this thing come down on my head.

I tried to pull out the table a little farther to get more height with the lift post thing, but being that there's more weight in the air, the bottom slips until everything equalizes. On the newer machines, it looks like there might be a hinge like 2/3 into the playfield? If so, this is very cool. Eventually I will be making a rotisserie which looks to make life much easier, but dollars will not allow it just now, so I will have to work inside the machine.

My question is this... Is it a bad idea to pull the playfield out far enough that I could stand the whole playfield vertically? I would need to find a way to secure it, but this would give me far greater access to the underside. Obviously I don't want to cause damage to the playfield, so I have not yet lifted it like this yet. I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Safe, or bad idea?

#1321 1 year ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

So... What is this thing, and what does it do? (not the volume pot, the metal bracket above the pot).
[quoted image]

There's supposed to be a ball in there that would roll to the back and hit that switch if someone picked up the game

Quoted from SpaceAce:

2. It's just a little point, so I am worried that I might bump the PF and have this thing come down on my head.

There should be a hole to stick it in so that's less likely

Quoted from SpaceAce:

My question is this... Is it a bad idea to pull the playfield out far enough that I could stand the whole playfield vertically? I would need to find a way to secure it, but this would give me far greater access to the underside. Obviously I don't want to cause damage to the playfield, so I have not yet lifted it like this yet. I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Safe, or bad idea

I do this all the time. Some games even have dips in the rails the playfield lays on so you can put the bottom in there to keep it from sliding. As long as you pull it out far enough that it can't tip you're fine. Also make sure not to set it on the back plastics

#1322 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

There should be a hole to stick it in so that's less likely

There is, but it is just not very deep.

Quoted from zacaj:

There's supposed to be a ball in there that would roll to the back and hit that switch if someone picked up the game

Dig it. Makes sense. Nifty solution actually. Well... there's a use for one of the pitted balls.

Quoted from zacaj:

I do this all the time. Some games even have dips in the rails the playfield lays on so you can put the bottom in there to keep it from sliding. As long as you pull it out far enough that it can't tip you're fine. Also make sure not to set it on the back plastics

Got it. I will be careful. No need breaking other things trying to fix current broken things.

#1323 1 year ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

Dig it. Makes sense. Nifty solution actually. Well... there's a use for one of the pitted balls

I think it's technically a different size for some reason. Not sure a normal one will fit.

#1324 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I think it's technically a different size for some reason. Not sure a normal one will fit.

Yes they are 15/16ths so little smaller than a "normal" ball. Also space, your missing your tilt bob.

#1325 1 year ago
Quoted from Travish:

Also space, your missing your tilt bob.

spaceace , the hanging pendulum thingy.
tilt (resized).jpg

#1326 1 year ago

Heh... Well crap. Gonna have to get rid of it then.

So is that an easy find? I can't imagine it would be as hard as finding plastics, correct? I knew it was the tilt mechanism, but this is my first pin, so I had no idea.

In other news, I started taking capacitors off my power supply. I had no idea that the filter cap was glued in. Made removing it somewhat problematic. But I got it done.

#1327 1 year ago

SpaceAce,

If you need any help I've got 4 sys 7 machines you could look at including a BK in Sandy Springs. Also, swampfire is in Duluth and is always a great resource to help out new pinball guys.

#1328 1 year ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

SpaceAce,
If you need any help I've got 4 sys 7 machines you could look at including a BK in Sandy Springs. Also, swampfire is in Duluth and is always a great resource to help out new pinball guys.

And you took the BK name too. Nice goin' on that. Yeah that would be awesome. Heck if nothing else, I'd love to see just see your collection. You have a great range ( old to new). As mentioned earlier, I am working on re-capping the power supply, and sound. I am also going going to replace the 40 pin interconnect.

#1329 1 year ago

I was having an issue where the upper lock wasn't registering if i had 2 balls in the apron trough. I would then have to repeatedly hit the flipper buttons to get the ball to eject into the shooter lane, with no lock ball register. I figured out the kicker arm in the trough was getting stuck in the up position not allowing the apron trough ball to register and move into the "on deck" shooter position. Apparently hitting the flipper button would shimmy the ehect arm eventually. Removed the arm, cleaned the pivot pin with alcohol, lubed the pivot with synthetic oil, and all is working as it should! Just a reminder to keep your metal on metal joints lubed with an oil that won't attract dirt to gum up the machine. Metal on nylon and nylon on nylon never need lubed.

2018-09-20 13.45.06 (resized).jpg20180919_132336 (resized).jpg
#1330 1 year ago

Finally got my BK project booting into attract mode.

The problem I have is that it will immediately boot into attract mode with the coin door open (you don't have to flick the on/off switch multiple times it does it on the first try) but will only boot into audit mode with the coin door closed.

I have replaced all the ROM sockets and the 40 pin interconnector. The coin door interlock switch is present and working. I have a remote battery pack with new batteries, D17 tests good and I have 4.45v at pin 22 of the 5101.

What am I missing?

#1331 1 year ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

The problem I have is that it will immediately boot into attract mode with the coin door open (you don't have to flick the on/off switch multiple times it does it on the first try) but will only boot into audit mode with the coin door closed.

Are the batteries installed?

#1332 1 year ago

Yes

#1333 1 year ago

If I pull the diagnostisc connector (IJ4?) from the CPU the game boots every time. Might have a probe at IC5 to see what it is doing.

#1334 1 year ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

What am I missing?

Perhaps a silly question, but... You do have balls in the machine, yes?

When I first got my machine, I wanted to do all the testing without the balls. Just finger tripping the switches n such. I just could never get it into game mode. In fact, I didn't put the balls in because I could not start a game. I still thought it was broken. Turns out it ran fine. Just no balls. Once I put them in, it worked fine.

#1335 1 year ago

I don't have balls in the pin but I am not trying to start a game. I am just trying to get it to boot into attract mode with the coin door closed.
It should do this whether there are balls in or not - but it isn't

#1336 1 year ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

I don't have balls in the pin but I am not trying to start a game. I am just trying to get it to boot into attract mode with the coin door closed.
It should do this whether there are balls in or not - but it isn't

Is it remembering your audits, adjustments etc if you boot it again with the door closed?

#1337 1 year ago

Dunno but will check.

#1338 1 year ago

Ok. Everything took a step backwards. Tried replacing the 5101 as it was already socketed but now the CPU locks up with a "0" displayed and both LEDs lit on the CPU and the machine repeating the same phrase over and over. Put the original 5101 back in but still the same problem.

#1339 1 year ago

Made some progress back to the original problem Just reseated the ROMS and the pin will once again boot into attract mode with coin door open but only into audit mode with it closed.

Quoted from zacaj:

Is it remembering your audits, adjustments etc if you boot it again with the door closed?

The game does remember audit adjustments between power cycles whether coin door open or closed.

#1340 1 year ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

Made some progress back to the original problem Just reseated the ROMS and the pin will once again boot into attract mode with coin door open but only into audit mode with it closed.

The game does remember audit adjustments between power cycles whether coin door open or closed.

Clean the pins on your ROMs. Best would be to clean them and replace the ROM sockets to ensure best reliability. I've had many bad ROM sockets (worn out) on System 3-7 games.

#1341 1 year ago

These two yellow wires got pulled from their respective loop ends attached to the fuse board in removing the head. When I check continuity from the transformer, I have continuity to each wire itself as well as the other one at the same time. I'm assuming it doesn't matter which of these yellow wires gets connected to which terminal? Or should they be connected a specific way?

20180925_113102 (resized).jpg20180925_113121 (resized).jpg20180925_113440 (resized).jpg
#1342 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Clean the pins on your ROMs. Best would be to clean them and replace the ROM sockets to ensure best reliability. I've had many bad ROM sockets (worn out) on System 3-7 games.

Sockets have been replaced but the legs of the ROMs do look a bit grubby.

I usually replace ROMS on project games as a matter of course but these seemed to be OK.

I'll give the legs a clean but is this likely to be the cause of my problem?

#1343 1 year ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

Sockets have been replaced but the legs of the ROMs do look a bit grubby.
I usually replace ROMS on project games as a matter of course but these seemed to be OK.
I'll give the legs a clean but is this likely to be the cause of my problem?

I think so, yes. Especially if you are getting intermittent boot up issues and reseating the ROMs change things.

#1344 1 year ago

So... I did the fireproofing and the bullet proofing. I added the mosfets, removed the resistors, and jumpered. I pulled the resistors, and jumpered the driverboard. I replaced the 40 pin interconnect, moved the batteries off the board, and reflowed all other connectors. I turned on the machine and saw the 2500 4. I went through the diagnostics (twice ) and then it went into attract. While I am really excited. With that excitement, I now get to work though figuring out all the little things that might be wrong. I am a little perplexed, but moving forward.

- The credits / match display has the first digit (on each number) coming in and out.
- The sound is nearly non existent. And that which is present is rreeeeeaaaalllllyy sssslllllloooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww (and it seems to be stuck on).
- Eventually the machine heats up (or something) and the sound starts to come in. Gritchy at first, and then it comes in nice and smooth (such a great sound).
- I am still working through some bulb replacement to see if I have a ROW issue, or, just a bunch of dead bulbs. I am however interested in how many things I am breaking just trying to change the lights.

I have a lot of things I still need to do. But I want to get the obvious items running. I will be replacing a WHOLE BUNCH of sockets.

#1345 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

I think so, yes. Especially if you are getting intermittent boot up issues and reseating the ROMs change things.

OK. I will order new ROMs so I should know one way or another when I get them fitted.

In the mean time could someone let me know where the red and white ground wire from the magnet relays connects in the back box. Mine is bundled with the wires that go to the black connector in the picture but is then left hanging. The schematic just shows a ground connection.

Thanks.

DSCN2723A (resized).jpgDSCN2724A (resized).jpg
#1346 1 year ago

I scored a CPR black knight playfield (upper playfield only) for $100. Mine was blown out so this worked out. Might be weird having a really nice upper and ok lower.. but whatevs

#1347 1 year ago
Quoted from Andy_B:

OK. I will order new ROMs so I should know one way or another when I get them fitted.
In the mean time could someone let me know where the red and white ground wire from the magnet relays connects in the back box. Mine is bundled with the wires that go to the black connector in the picture but is then left hanging. The schematic just shows a ground connection.
Thanks.
[quoted image][quoted image]

The white with red wire attaches under the screw and wingnut at the front of the hole in the backbox that leads to the lower cabinet. Magnets will not work unless it is attached. There is usually a ring terminal at the end of that wire. If it is missing, recommend adding one back to ensure a secure connection.

#1348 1 year ago

That's great, thanks

#1349 1 year ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

So... I did the fireproofing and the bullet proofing. I added the mosfets, removed the resistors, and jumpered. I pulled the resistors, and jumpered the driverboard. I replaced the 40 pin interconnect, moved the batteries off the board, and reflowed all other connectors. I turned on the machine and saw the 2500 4. I went through the diagnostics (twice ) and then it went into attract. While I am really excited. With that excitement, I now get to work though figuring out all the little things that might be wrong. I am a little perplexed, but moving forward.
- The credits / match display has the first digit (on each number) coming in and out.
- The sound is nearly non existent. And that which is present is rreeeeeaaaalllllyy sssslllllloooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww (and it seems to be stuck on).
- Eventually the machine heats up (or something) and the sound starts to come in. Gritchy at first, and then it comes in nice and smooth (such a great sound).
- I am still working through some bulb replacement to see if I have a ROW issue, or, just a bunch of dead bulbs. I am however interested in how many things I am breaking just trying to change the lights.
I have a lot of things I still need to do. But I want to get the obvious items running. I will be replacing a WHOLE BUNCH of sockets.

On the sound issue, are both voices and sound effects really quiet or just one or the other?

Try moving the voice/sound balance pot on the voice card (smaller of the 2 sound cards) back and forth through it's range to see if that cleans up the scratchy-ness. Do the same with the master volume control in the bottom cabinet.

If that's no good, try reseating the ribbon cable between the sound card and the voice card.

If that's no good, or even if it is fixed, reflow the solder or better yet, replace the header pins on the sound card. All header pins need reflowing on all boards as any of them can have cold solder joints.

For the slowness, try running the sound diagnostics by pushing the test button on the sound card. Let us know if the sound test is slow or just game sounds are slow. Are voices or sound effects slow or both?

#1350 1 year ago

Hey @schwaggs, Actually, it doesn't make any sound at all for between 20-45 minutes (silence), then all at once, it comes in (both voice and sound effects). But it's like little chirps at first. Like... you will get a glimpse of sound here and there. And then when it finally decides to kick in, it's all within about 5 minutes, and then it plays perfectly. I am working recapping and reflowing it tonight. I am not sure if I will get it finished tonight or not (because I really want to play it some more). I found a couple posts about how to troubleshoot it this afternoon, and hopefully between that and your suggestions I will figure out something. I went to Fry's tonight in search of sockets, but I am not paying that much. I will get it from Mouser, or Amazon r something.

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