(Topic ID: 54503)

Black Knight Club...Members Only!


By mof

5 years ago



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There are 1494 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 30.
#1051 4 months ago
Quoted from hawknole:

That decal is custom because I did not like the stock gate, even after ultra sonic cleaning and other methods. I have the design and could send to you and the process I use if you are interested, shoot me a PM if so.

looks good! Once I have my game cleaned and running I'll have to hit you up about that. I assume it is a nice decal printer paper etc.

Just ordered rubber, decals for targets, and led kit. Boards get shipped out shortly for full repair/refurb.

For some reason they moved the left spinner to the middle ramp gate and the left spinner was swapped with some white one with an S on it. I'd like this back to factory, and reading there were mentioned of making the middle ramp gate make contact with the switch both ball directions. Maybe that is why they used a spinner?

#1053 4 months ago

Got my BK up and running I picked up last week for 320 bucks
The cab is fantastic don’t know how to judge conditions of playfield on this game
40 pin checked out boards are pretty damn good
Weak bottom right flipper never played the game this game is dope wish I had the power on that flipper I want to smoke the left ramp BAD
Great game a friend is coming back to address the flipper after inspection believes it’s end of stroke
The

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#1054 4 months ago
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:

Got my BK up and running I picked up last week for 320 bucks
The cab is fantastic don’t know how to judge conditions of playfield on this game
40 pin checked out boards are pretty damn good
Weak bottom right flipper never played the game this game is dope wish I had the power on that flipper I want to smoke the left ramp BAD
Great game a friend is coming back to address the flipper after inspection believes it’s end of stroke
The

Welcome to the club, your BK is in decent shape, super price. Looks like it needs a good cleaning and some new rubbers and you will be good to go. You need to be almost perfect on that bottom right flipper shot even with a good EOS, enjoy.

#1055 4 months ago

So I was looking at the EOS switch that corresponds to the weak right flipper
It is not the right one the metal leg is 2 inches where the good one is 1 1/2 inches
Is this the problem? Whoever put it there moved it back a little so it would hit in the right place
So,if that is a problem,should I just go ahead and change them all?or leave well enough alone
Annnd I want 2 displays just the glass display part anyone know a good place to get a couple all I can find are LED ones I would like to keep it original
Any help would be appreciated

#1056 4 months ago

The eos switch should be normally closed. If the contacts are bad the flipper can be weak.

The flipper mech should open the switch when it is engaged. And reduce power when it is in hold position.

You can use any high voltage switch to accomplish this. I’ve seen plenty of different configs when people didn’t have the factory switch.

But the rule is - if in doubt, throw it out.

#1057 4 months ago
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:

So I was looking at the EOS switch that corresponds to the weak right flipper
It is not the right one the metal leg is 2 inches where the good one is 1 1/2 inches
Is this the problem? Whoever put it there moved it back a little so it would hit in the right place
So,if that is a problem,should I just go ahead and change them all?or leave well enough alone
Annnd I want 2 displays just the glass display part anyone know a good place to get a couple all I can find are LED ones I would like to keep it original
Any help would be appreciated

I agree with black_knight, both of mine are weak so I’m replacing them with the prebuilt fliptronic like flippers from pinball life mentioned in Vids guide

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606

I’ll post back when I’m done but I’m sure it’ll be a huge improvement

#1058 4 months ago
Quoted from Pintor:

I agree with black_knight, both of mine are weak so I’m replacing them with the prebuilt fliptronic like flippers from pinball life mentioned in Vids guide
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606
I’ll post back when I’m done but I’m sure it’ll be a huge improvement

I've played games with them and they weren't any stronger than rebuilt originals.

#1059 4 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I've played games with them and they weren't any stronger than rebuilt originals.

Since 'strength' is determined by the coil, and they use the same one, they aren't going to be. And frankly they don't need to be any stronger, they usually just need to be rebuilt.

However the new mechs are designed better and have a couple of advantages:

They are snappier, maybe its the improved linkage design, maybe its the better spring, but they are noticeably more 'active' than the original design.
Removable coil stops. The older coil stops were built in to the mount and could not be replaced. The newer mounts use stops that can be replaced.

All these 40-year old machines have had their flippers replaced many times. And if your machine has original mounts I'll bet you a $1 they are the original stops and are worn down significantly. If they are, any new mechs you put in will get torn up quickly, as the plunger gets pulled in too far.

The point is, if you are rebuilding your flippers, you need to replace everything anyway, including the flipper mount, so why not do the upgrade? You can buy an entire assembly, already put together, including coil for just a couple bucks more than the parts alone. All you need to do is solder in the coil, and you keep the old one as a spare.

#1060 4 months ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

And if your machine has original mounts I'll bet you a $1 they are the original stops and are worn down significantly. If they are, any new mechs you put in will get torn up quickly, as the plunger gets pulled in too far.

It's hard to get original data on this but as far as I've been able to find, the original coil stops were 1/4 inch tall, and so are the ones on my original bases. No mushrooming either.

Quoted from Black_Knight:

The point is, if you are rebuilding your flippers, you need to replace everything anyway, including the flipper mount, so why not do the upgrade? You can buy an entire assembly, already put together, including coil for just a couple bucks more than the parts alone. All you need to do is solder in the coil, and you keep the old one as a spare.

The don't feel the same, I'm not a fan.

#1061 4 months ago

I get the feel thing. I like original most of the time, but this upgrade is a no-brainer for me.

If you don't like the feel, buy the old style rebuild kit. But you should still update the mount and stops so you can easily replace in the future. Here's why:

The top plunger was installed by the previous owner right before I bought the machine, maybe 1500 plays since the rebuild. The linkage was not smooth and was binding in both directions.

This happened because the stops were so worn, but not replaced. Original on left, new on right. It's a big difference but there is no mushrooming. Cant get an accurate measurement on the stop but its probably 3/8 not 1/4 inch.

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#1062 4 months ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

I get the feel thing. I like original most of the time, but this upgrade is a no-brainer for me.
If you don't like the feel, buy the old style rebuild kit. But you should still update the mount and stops so you can easily replace in the future. Here's why:
The top plunger was installed by the previous owner right before I bought the machine, maybe 1500 plays since the rebuild. The linkage was not smooth and was binding in both directions.
This happened because the stops were so worn, but not replaced. Original on left, new on right. It's a big difference but there is no mushrooming. Cant get an accurate measurement on the stop but its probably 3/8 not 1/4 inch.

No guarantee at all the stops are the same depth. They switched depth and plunger length all the time. My links aren't colliding with the bracket, the stop stops them short of it. I'd love to get a measurement on PBL's replacement bases, but I don't even know where they got their measurements from.

#1063 4 months ago
Quoted from Pintor:I’ll post back when I’m done but I’m sure it’ll be a huge improvement

Please do...thank you for the replies
I am going to change the switches but now I am really wanting to get this kit ha ha thanks again for enlightening me to this I love this game I want to be the best it can be
I want to keep original though
I guess it’s a lot to think about
At least I made a decision and got a Mayfair backglass
Peace

#1064 4 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

No guarantee at all the stops are the same depth. They switched depth and plunger length all the time. My links aren't colliding with the bracket, the stop stops them short of it. I'd love to get a measurement on PBL's replacement bases, but I don't even know where they got their measurements from.

True, various era stops have different lengths. Have a look at how many different part numbers there are for WPC and up coil stops. If you order a pair of each for spares (like I did, i'm a parts hoarder, and I admit it), you will see the difference between the stops is the length of the actual stop. Physical mounting is identical.

This being said, I have modded the flippers on a few of my system 6 and early WPC era games. I feel the change in spring to external on T2 really helped the feel of those flippers. I don't see that much differnece on System 6 and 7 era as it relates to power.

I agree with zacaj, a properly rebuilt flipper is just about as good.

I also agree with Black_Knight that if you are rebuilding the flipper completely (which means replacing the coil stop) you might as well upgrade the frame to the model with removable coil stops (its actually cheaper or the same price depending on which coil stop you need) and at that point, you are looking at about $3 in parts to upgrade to external springs.

#1065 4 months ago

I joined the club yesterday. A fifteen hour day in total, about 9 of it driving through monsoon conditions, and a few others loading and unloading (my buddy grabbed another pin at the same location). This was very loved at its former home and as a result I have a lot on my plate. I am currently looking for a plastics set and BG as the BG in it literally disintegrated on the ride home. I would also be interested in a replacement PF-doesn't have to be NOS or repro, just better than what I have.

I am hoping to get it unloaded tomorrow. It's not booting, but that is really the least of the woes. I'll post some more detailed pics when I get it set up. It's one of those scenarios where it spent the last 30+ years in a home, but a home that did not understand maintenance.

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#1066 4 months ago

Here's a bit more detail to my pickup. After giving it a very thorough look over yesterday I was thinking of snagging a repro CPU/Driver board, but it doesn't look like any system 7 repro PCB's exist. I see some conflicting data about the Rottendog 3-6. Has anyone had success with their BK and an aftermarket board?

Restoration/Pickup Thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nerdygrrl-gets-knighted

#1067 4 months ago

Your boards don’t look that bad, even looks like a recent 40pin replacement. But that other wiring is crazy.

Rottendog is no good for this game. Too many emulation issues and probs with sounds.

I sent my boards to barakandl. He did a great job for less than buying a rd. Even had him do a spare set incase I found a project without boards.

Love my BK. We used it in the Pinvasion Classics tournament last month. Had to adjust the upper trough lockout, but then played flawlessly for over 200 games that weekend.

#1068 4 months ago

I agree with black_knight , your original boards look pretty good to me. They are easily bullet proofed. New 40 pin, new ROM sockets, MOSFET lamp matrix mod, new capacitors, reflow or better (but more $) replace header pins. Not that much work and you will be set for another 30 years. Just make sure to have all your boards touched up (CPU, Driver, Power Supply, Sound and Speech).

People that have recurring issues with original boards typically DO NOT put all the needed work into them. They do the bare minimum to get them working which doesn't avoid the 80% worn out parts that will fail in a few months.

#1069 4 months ago

Thanks guys! I saw all of that green and some sketchy looking traces and got a bit worried. In the process of getting this setup now and then can dive into it a bit more.

#1070 4 months ago

OK the outputs/inputs on my "white" connector got nuked. I am guessing these are the GI lines. That being said, this is not the connector that comes from the ISO-it goes to the front of the cab which seems weird to me.

Can anyone tell me where these wires originate in the cab and where they go in the back box. I am doing my best to go through the schematics, but I am having a hard time finding it (could be the 100 degree heat).

Many thanks in advance.

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#1071 4 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

OK to outputs/inputs on my "white" connector got nuked. I am guessing these are the GI lines. That being said, this is not the connector that comes from the ISO-it goes to the front of the cab which seems weird to me.
Can anyone tell me where these wires originate in the cab and where they go in the back box. I am doing my best to go through the schematics, but I am having a hard tie finding it (could be the 100 degree heat).
Many thanks in advance.

Looks like bottom left board B mostly & possibly one green/x on A and power just to the right of that then feeds to left flipper switch and coin door on front of cabinet. Pics posted in reverse order.
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#1072 4 months ago

Looks like GI lighting for the coin door. Does it look like the coin door lights or wiring shorted out? Pins 1 and 2 on connector 7P1/7J1 on page 21 of the manual.

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#1073 4 months ago

Thanks guys, I will check that out in the morning. Coin door lights totally make sense (derp should have occurred to me).

#1074 4 months ago

In a situation like that, it may be easier to just pull the whole playfield from the cabinet. Once the wires are disconnected it just lifts out. Then you can flip it over and trace things out easier.

-Hans

#1075 4 months ago

Need some help if someone doesn't mind snapping and posting a couple of pictures. I have a loose wire. I'm pretty sure I know where its from but I don't want to guess. I think the yellow wire was attached to the one side of the extra ball light. Can someone verify for me please? Thanks!

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And if you're wondering, this is the before shot:

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And this is the after shot with the hardtop installed (sorry, crappy screen capture on my phone from a video):

Screenshot_20180703-204639 (resized).png

#1076 4 months ago

Nice work on the hard top! I can't see the color of the wire very well, is that a yellow wire with green trace? I can take some pics for you today before I put my PF back in.

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#1077 4 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I can't see the color of the wire very well, is that a yellow wire with green trace?

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! That was the one. All the lights are working again. Thanks so much!

#1078 4 months ago

After joining the club and being so pumped I then went on a rollercoaster back and forth getting this game 100% and considered selling it
I have come to my senses
I need to replace a display
Part of me wants to stay original
But with the price a display is I have to consider all new all the way with the LED displays
Anybody have an opinion on these
I think the orange would look dope

#1079 4 months ago

I have no issues with LED's they run cooler and draw less power.

#1080 4 months ago
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:

Anybody have an opinion on these

I have XPin orange displays in my Firepower. They are gorgeous but that's my personal opinion. The only thing preventing me from switching my BK to them is cost and the fact that every one of my original displays is perfect.

Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I have no issues with LED's they run cooler and draw less power.

When you switch them you can get rid of the high voltage circuit that feeds them. You can pull the fuse out. Definitely less heat and less power.

#1081 4 months ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

I have XPin orange displays in my Firepower. They are gorgeous but that's my personal opinion. The only thing preventing me from switching my BK to them is cost and the fact that every one of my original displays is perfect.

When you switch them you can get rid of the high voltage circuit that feeds them. You can pull the fuse out. Definitely less heat and less power.

Ohhhh that’s good to know. Thanks!

#1082 4 months ago

OK, I finally got a chance to scope out the schematics and the connector. While this is the "cabinet wiring" and it looks like everything is coming straight from front of the cab, I noticed this on the bottom of page 21 (thanks Schwaggs). It appears there are two GI lines that originate from the upper PF and go into this connector at pins 1and 2. This makes sense given the GI from my upper PF is also cut.

If anyone has the time and could snap a pic of how these two lines run off of the upper PF GI and go to this main cabinet harness I would be super appreciative. I am guessing there has to be some other kind of disconnect in there. That are I am super off base.
Screen Shot 2018-07-06 at 10.24.19 AM (resized).pngunnamed-4 (resized).jpg

#1083 4 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

OK, I finally got a chance to scope out the schematics and the connector. While this is the "cabinet wiring" and it looks like everything is coming straight from front of the cab, I noticed this on the bottom of page 21 (thanks Schwaggs). It appears there are two GI lines that originate from the upper PF and go into this connector at pins 1and 2. This makes sense given the GI from my upper PF is also cut.
If anyone has the time and could snap a pic of how these two lines run off of the upper PF GI and go to this main cabinet harness I would be super appreciative. I am guessing there has to be some other kind of disconnect in there. That are I am super off base.

Looks like those pairs of wires shoul be soldered to a GI bulb socket. You can see the hole in the upper PF in your picture, below the wires, just to the right of the switch bracket.
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#1084 4 months ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Looks like those pairs of wires shoul be soldered to a GI bulb socket. You can see the hole in the upper PF in your picture, below the wires, just to the right of the switch bracket.

Well dang, I thought I had it. It seems my reading of the schematics is correct, but my theory of loose wires was not. Back at it I guess.

Many thanks for the pics!

#1085 4 months ago

OK legit think I have it figured out. What threw me was that I had a GI line on both sides of the white connector and then the remnants of what was pictured. After looking at the schematics again, it appears that previous owner moved the GI lines to an open spot on the connector, but left the remnants in place.

Won't be able to verify for sure until the rest of my PS/MPU rebuild parts arrive on Monday. Thanks for all of the pics and help guys. It was very much appreciated.

#1086 4 months ago

Pulled my boards to get freshened up..... this plug didn’t want to let go....

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#1087 4 months ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Pulled my boards to get freshened up..... this plug didn’t want to let go....

Well, look at the positive, that's one less pin that you need to remove when you replace the header! You'll be lucky if there isn't any board damage!

#1088 4 months ago

CPR has put the BK plastics sets back up for sale! Not sure if many of you have seen this but this is great news!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-floodgates-open-plastics-amp-glasses-releases

Happy shopping!

#1089 4 months ago

Bought a set this morning pumped!

#1090 4 months ago

As I posted earlier I picked up BK for cheap and the cab is fantastic,very clean inside and boards are sound for the most part.
I ordered a new plastic set today,got the Mayfair backglass,and put in led displays.
I heard a playfield is coming out from micro in September so I was thinking I couldn’t have got this at a better time.

Back in the day my brother always preferred Flash Gordon over BK where as I prefer BK

I really enjoy the game and love the feeling it emotes.
It’s like in that moment I am back in time and I feel like it’s playing defender or tempest way back when.
Should I be this excited about the chance to slip a new playfield in this game?
My brother thinks it’s way over the top and unnecessary and I will never see my money back.
I feel with this game it’s not about the money.
I had a FG I parted out and a guy REALLY wanted the coin door.I could see this so I told him he could have it.He insisted on paying...
He told me he found a FG at the dumps and had restored the whole thing and was almost done and sent pics it looked amazing.
I remember thinking why would anyone go through this when you can just buy one pretty decent for 1500?
I guess it wasn’t about the money
I think this game has ALOT going for it besides it’s pinball “value”
I love bringing this thing back.
I don’t want to do 30% and just play it and sell it.

So,again,should I be this damn stoked about a new playfield?
Has anyone put one in and have an opinion?
Thanks,going to go play one more round against him

#1091 4 months ago
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:

As I posted earlier I picked up BK for cheap and the cab is fantastic,very clean inside and boards are sound for the most part.
I ordered a new plastic set today,got the Mayfair backglass,and put in led displays.
I heard a playfield is coming out from micro in September so I was thinking I couldn’t have got this at a better time.
Back in the day my brother always preferred Flash Gordon over BK where as I prefer BK
I really enjoy the game and love the feeling it emotes.
It’s like in that moment I am back in time and I feel like it’s playing defender or tempest way back when.
Should I be this excited about the chance to slip a new playfield in this game?
My brother thinks it’s way over the top and unnecessary and I will never see my money back.
I feel with this game it’s not about the money.
I had a FG I parted out and a guy REALLY wanted the coin door.I could see this so I told him he could have it.He insisted on paying...
He told me he found a FG at the dumps and had restored the whole thing and was almost done and sent pics it looked amazing.
I remember thinking why would anyone go through this when you can just buy one pretty decent for 1500?
I guess it wasn’t about the money
I think this game has ALOT going for it besides it’s pinball “value”
I love bringing this thing back.
I don’t want to do 30% and just play it and sell it.
So,again,should I be this damn stoked about a new playfield?
Has anyone put one in and have an opinion?
Thanks,going to go play one more round against him

Everyone puts a different value on games. If you plan on keeping it, then you decide what you want to put into and don't worry about getting your money back out. I have a Firepower that I bought for $1100 CDN. It was my first pin. It now has a CPR playfield, CPR plastics, Mayfair backglass, Xpin displays, new flipper mechs, full LEDs with some customizations. It plays and looks fantastic. My pinball friends that have access to brand new, $10K games (Iron Maiden, Star Wars, Houdini, Guardians, Dialed In, etc.) think it's amazing. I've probably got $3K into it never mind the time and effort that went into doing a playfield swap and all the rest of the work I've done. I have no intention of selling it. Ever. So I don't really care what I have invested. If I was forced to sell it I'd be lucky to see $2K and I understand that is the reality of the situation. I can live with that.

My BK is a different story. It was supposed to be a budget restore. I decided to go with a hardtop rather than search or wait for a playfield to become available just to save a few dollars. Then it got the full LED treatment. Then I decided to put new flipper mechs in. Then I decided to get the CPR plastics even though mine are really pretty decent. Now that it's all coming together I have to decide if I want to spend the money on a new backglass. All of a sudden it is no longer a budget restore.

Bottom line is at some point, unless you're a flipper, you stop worrying about what you've spent on it. If you look at it and play it and it makes you smile, screw what everyone else says. These things become a labour of love, especially if you are doing the work. My buddy was always concerned that he could get out what he put into a machine when he sold it. I got tired of listening to him. What value do you put on your enjoyment and usage of a pin?

So do what you want and don't listen to anyone else. As long as you can afford it and it makes you happy, that's all that matters!

Just my 3.5 cents (adjusted for the Canadian/US exchange rate, no tariffs added).

#1092 4 months ago

If the game is that important to you, and you are in at a low enough dollar value, I would do it.

I’m in the same boat, about to get a Mayfair glass will more than likely do a PF as well. For me it’s about bringing a game back to life.

#1093 4 months ago

Same here, I’ll never get the money back that I put into this pin, including the new Mayfair backglass. But at the end of the day the game makes me happy and I plan on keeping it forever. If you have the time and $$$ to spare then why not!

#1094 4 months ago

I broke C15 when trying to get the IC out of my PS, which looks like a 470 pF cap. Does anyone know if I should order the 50V or 100V from GPE? The manual doesn't quite state.

I am so mad, I was so close to having a fully working PS. Yet another GPE order coming up.

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#1095 4 months ago

You can go higher with voltage rating without any trouble. Just don't go lower!

#1096 4 months ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I broke C15 when trying to get the IC out of my PS, which looks like a 470 pF cap. Does anyone know if I should order the 50V or 100V from GPE? The manual doesn't quite state.
I am so mad, I was so close to having a fully working PS. Yet another GPE order coming up.

Its a low voltage circuit (15V max), you can use either.

#1097 4 months ago

Hi all,

Well I got my Knight a while back and was supposed to be fully working. It had some issues mainly needed new score displays. I Took the playfields out to clean, some new coil sleeves and some minor adjustments. When I put the playfield back in and hooked it up I started to blow the coil fuse and heard a coil fire. After looking around I found it was the ball release coil. The diode on the coil was also in 2 pieces. Replaced the diode and the coil still locked on at start. I then replaced the driver and pre driver transistors. The driver transistor had a low reading when I tested so I replaced it. Now trying again on the initial start up for about a second it was fine and then it locked on again and blew the fuse. I checked the drive transistor again and the one leg is a short to ground. I tested the coil and I am getting around 4 ohms with that. I have checked the wires from the coil and nothing appears to be shorted. Looking at the schematics the only thing I can think of is IC1 or IC5 the PIA. I checked IC1 by doing a diode test and I am getting around .5 for all of the legs. Is there anything I am over looking? To me its odd to pull the playfield then have board trouble. The interconnect had the female part replaced and since I had it out I replaced the male part too. If I’m not over looking something simple would replacing the IC1 and then the PIA be the next step? Thanks in advance I cant wait to get this up and running.

#1098 4 months ago

If you disconnect the solenoid connectors to the driver board, does the fuse still blow?

#1099 4 months ago
Quoted from frunch:

If you disconnect the solenoid connectors to the driver board, does the fuse still blow?

If I disconnect 2J11 the fuse doesn't blow. Pin 5 on the connector now is grounded due to the driver transistor being shorted.

#1100 4 months ago

Looking at the schematic, 2J11-pin 5 is the ground for the lower-left 3-bank drop target reset coil. Have you checked the coil, diode, and associated transistors for that?

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