(Topic ID: 54503)

Black Knight Club...Members Only!


By mof

7 years ago



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There are 2276 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 46.
#851 2 years ago

My BK is working again. After sitting for a couple of years, gathering an ever increasing pile of stuff obscuring the top glass, I was inspired by this club to clear it off to share a picture. I couldn't look at it with out wanting to play it. When it stopped working I suspected the connection between MPU and driver board, but was busy with other thing, and so the pile began. I know it is not a permanent fix, but just reseating the two boards has the game working again. Now I just have to refrain from playing it until it gets some cleaning and new rubbers.

#852 2 years ago
Quoted from dcannan:

Every pin I own except one I've owned over 20 years. Just getting back to the hobby I'm amazed at things like drop target stickers being remade that in my time were only available by being lucky enough to find some dusty nos that an operator happened to still have. I used to repair my boards to the component level.

Welcome home.

Almost any technical problem or any pinball part can be sourced somewhere on this forum.

1 week later
#853 2 years ago

Hey everybody!
I've been given the task of restoring a BK for a friend, and it looks to be quite a project. I've done some pf restoration in the past, so that's not terrifying to me, but the first thing I noticed on this game is that most of the inserts have sunken badly. So, that's a ton of work right there...I was hoping there would be an insert kit available but haven't been able to turn anything up. Are there resources out there for this?

#854 2 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Hey everybody!
I've been given the task of restoring a BK for a friend, and it looks to be quite a project. I've done some pf restoration in the past, so that's not terrifying to me, but the first thing I noticed on this game is that most of the inserts have sunken badly. So, that's a ton of work right there...I was hoping there would be an insert kit available but haven't been able to turn anything up. Are there resources out there for this?

Are they sunken or cupped? Seems like if they are simply sunk in you could relevel and epoxy them? I think those are going to be hard inserts to find. Best of luck. Great game. Let me know if you should need any pics as I recently tore one down completely.

#855 2 years ago

looking for a few BK plastics if anyone is holding....all off the upper pf. The big yellow sword plastic on the front of the upper pf, the long rectangle piece right below that, and the upper left corner big plastic on the upper pf.
Any help appreciated

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#856 2 years ago

Okay folks, I'm in! This one is gonna take some time. Haven't decided which way to go with this playfield yet. Someone local has a really decent original (his BK has a CPR playfield in it!) but he hasn't decided what to do with it yet. Trying to be patient! The cabinet is in decent shape and the back box looks pretty clean as does the underside of the playfield.

Just trying to get it up and running at this point. Couple of sets of drop targets aren't playing nice, no right flippers at the moment. the left magna save parts were cannibalized and no sound which is absolutely the worst! I was looking forward to getting laughed at by the machine!

I will tackle one issue at a time and see where this adventure takes me!

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#857 2 years ago

Rare to see so much wood showing, without the usual sloppy operator repairs and touch ups.

#858 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

Okay folks, I'm in! This one is gonna take some time. Haven't decided which way to go with this playfield yet. Someone local has a really decent original (his BK has a CPR playfield in it!) but he hasn't decided what to do with it yet. Trying to be patient! The cabinet is in decent shape and the back box looks pretty clean as does the underside of the playfield.
Just trying to get it up and running at this point. Couple of sets of drop targets aren't playing nice, no right flippers at the moment. the left magna save parts were cannibalized and no sound which is absolutely the worst! I was looking forward to getting laughed at by the machine!
I will tackle one issue at a time and see where this adventure takes me!

Outside Edge is doing hardtop of Black Knight. Not sure when it is going to be released though.

#859 2 years ago
Quoted from AMBoggs:

Outside Edge is doing hardtop of Black Knight. Not sure when it is going to be released though.

I'm aware that they are and know they are getting close. I sent them an email for an ETA and a price. I think this might be the way I'm going to go. I've done 3 playfield swaps over the last couple of years and I'm not sure that I want to do another one. With winter approaching in Canada, it wouldn't be too bad to tackle it but the hardtop looks like a simpler alternative.

1 week later
#860 2 years ago

Hi everyone, first post after joining the club. I got my BK last year and man is it a blast!

The previous owner did a bang up job of cleaning it up and making it a sound game. I do however have a problem with upper targets / pop bumper not scoring and was wondering where I should ask my question (new to BK club and pinside). Do I ask here, or is there a specific thread?

Thanks in advance.

#861 2 years ago

No reason you can't ask here! Do none of the targets register on the upper playfield or just certain ones? Did the problem just happen or has this been an issue for a while?

#862 2 years ago

I'd assume you've got a row or column of the switch matrix out...

#863 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I'd assume you've got a row or column of the switch matrix out...

Yup, looks like column 5 on the switch matrix. All the upper playfield drop targets and the pop bumper are on that circuit. There will be a green/black wire going to each of those 7 switches. Check that wire (or pair of wires, as they Daisy chain from switch to switch) at each switch, give it a light tug to be sure it's firmly attached. Do the same with each diode on each of those switches as well. Sometimes they're hanging on by a thread, just enough to cause trouble. I'd start there, most of the time you'll find a wire/diode just isn't attached somewhere. Good luck! Let us know what you find.

#864 2 years ago

In case anyone is looking, apparently Planetary Pinball is working on remaking the BK backglass. I was told something should be coming soon. Not sure if this is news or anything, just thought I would share.

#865 2 years ago

Hi guys, thanks for allowing me to ask here.

I had to replace the pop bumper ring and rod (shown here, I hope) as one of the arms had broken off and made the pop bumper non-operational. I must have hit or nicked something I suspect.

In the upper playfield, the targets drop, don't count, nor does the pop bumper score. Dropped targets get reset when the ball play is over. I've traced the column 5 wiring and tested all connections from the drop targets / pop bumper back to the main board, and all seem to check out (black / green wires).

In the switch test, with all targets up, they don't register as stuck switches, even if I manually drop the targets (I tested 29, lower right, right target) and that registers as stuck once I drop it during the switch test (which I believe is correct).

I read somewhere that changing the pop bumper may short out the main board? Is that true, or can I confirm that somehow? I've since ordered a new pop bumper assembly and hope to swap that out with the (faint) hope that this may remedy my problem, but I suspect it may be the board itself?

As per checking diodes, would one of them cause all 7 issues (6 drop targets + pop bumper)? I'm going to check that next.

Thanks.

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#866 2 years ago

To narrow down if it's the driver board or playfield: disconnect the switch columns and rows connectors on the driver board at connectors 2J2 and 2J3 (upper right on the driver board). You can run a jumper between any pin on the column header pins and any pin on the row header pins to test the switch circuitry on the driver board. Pin 5 of the column connector (2J2) is for column 5, so you can try running a jumper from that pin to any pin on the row connector (2J3). If the switches respond when using the jumper, the driver board should be ok (though it would still be worth re-flowing the solder on the headers for the switch matrix if you haven't already)...

#867 2 years ago

Were the drop targets ever registering or is this only a problem since you have been working on the pop bumper?

The risk with messing with the pop bumper is only if you do it when the power is on. There are 2 switches on the pop bumper stack and if you short one to the other or ground out the pop switch, you can kill the driver for the switch matrix.

Frunch's procedure will help you rule out or identify the board as your problem. If it is indeed your board and you have reflowed the solder on the switch matrix headers, the most likely culprit is IC18 the 7406 hex inverter.

#868 2 years ago

Hi guys, thanks for the suggestions. (sorry for the late response - likely would have been best to ask my question after the holidays when I had more time ),

I'm quite a novice here, so I just want to make sure I'm following frunch's suggestion properly. I assume when you say "disconnect the switch columns and row connectors on the driver board at connectors 2J2 and 2J3", you mean the connections as per the 2 images below? I believe that's 2J2 at the top and 2J3 underneath? I think so, but want to check.

To verify the board is working properly, I would run a jumper from, say column 5 (the GRN-BLK) to any of the row connectors, say row 3 (WHT-ORN). This would imitate the triggering of the top-left 3 bank upper target if I am reading the switch matrix properly. How do I verify that the switches respond? Do I need the pin on? Sorry for the stupid questions...

To answer Schwaggs' query, yes, all was working until I replaced the original piece of hardware. I had the machine plugged in, but not turned on (next time, unplug to be safe), so hope that isn't it.

Lastly, I've checked all the diodes as well, and they seem fine.

Thanks again!

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#869 2 years ago

Those are the correct connectors.

Are you familiar with the diagnostics for the game? You have to use the switches on the coin door (open the door, you'll see 3 push-button switches on the 'back' of the coin door)... If you have the manual, you can follow the instructions from it. If not, the manual can be downloaded for free at ipdb.org (search for Black Knight). Basically, you push the middle switch into the down position (it will stay down until pushed again, which will pop it back up), then push the 'advance' switch to the right of it. That should start the display test. Push the middle button again so it pops back up. Now, pushing the advance button again should begin the sound test. Pushing advance again starts lamp test. Pushing it again starts the solenoid test. Push the switch again for the switch test. If any switches are being activated, the number of the switch(es) will appear in the credit/ball count display (refer to switch matrix diagram in manual to decipher which switches it detects are closed).

I would start the switch test, then run the jumper between a column pin and row pin and check the display to see if any number appears. I'd probably try a working column first, and make sure it registers a switch closure (a number will appear on a display) when the jumper is on any row pin. That way you'll know you're doing the test correctly. Then try running the jumper from the pin for column five and see if it registers a switch closure when the jumper is on any of the row pins. If no numbers come up, then we know the chip Schwaggs mentioned (IC18) is the most likely culprit.

Good luck!

#870 2 years ago
Quoted from mjvancam:

Hi guys, thanks for the suggestions. (sorry for the late response - likely would have been best to ask my question after the holidays when I had more time ),
I'm quite a novice here, so I just want to make sure I'm following frunch's suggestion properly. I assume when you say "disconnect the switch columns and row connectors on the driver board at connectors 2J2 and 2J3", you mean the connections as per the 2 images below? I believe that's 2J2 at the top and 2J3 underneath? I think so, but want to check.
To verify the board is working properly, I would run a jumper from, say column 5 (the GRN-BLK) to any of the row connectors, say row 3 (WHT-ORN). This would imitate the triggering of the top-left 3 bank upper target if I am reading the switch matrix properly. How do I verify that the switches respond? Do I need the pin on? Sorry for the stupid questions...
To answer Schwaggs' query, yes, all was working until I replaced the original piece of hardware. I had the machine plugged in, but not turned on (next time, unplug to be safe), so hope that isn't it.
Lastly, I've checked all the diodes as well, and they seem fine.
Thanks again!

Post a picture of the switch stack on the pop bumper. Include a view of where the end of the switches rest in the pop bumper mechanism. It is possible you assembled it incorrectly.

#871 2 years ago

Anyone have any reset issues with your BK? I have been trying to trouble shoot this problem. Both flippers energized reset it. Rottendog 327 X - pin power supply. Any help would be great appreciated!

#872 2 years ago
Quoted from dalispictures:

Anyone have any reset issues with your BK? I have been trying to trouble shoot this problem. Both flippers energized reset it. Rottendog 327 X - pin power supply. Any help would be great appreciated!

Cold solder joints on the CPU and/or driver board power headers - reflow the solder or replace the header pins.

At least 2 screws in the CPU and driver boards and all the screws in the power supply board will help with the ground plane.

Bad diode on one or more of the flipper coils

If none of this helps, replace the IDC power connectors on the power supply, CPU and driver board with connectors with trifuricon crimp pins

#873 2 years ago
Quoted from dalispictures:

Anyone have any reset issues with your BK? I have been trying to trouble shoot this problem. Both flippers energized reset it. Rottendog 327 X - pin power supply. Any help would be great appreciated!

I have the same problem. Rottendog 327 and a replacement power board (I forget the brand). My next step is to replace the flipper coil assemblies with ones from Marco, just have not had the time. I'll let you know when/if I get the issue corrected.

#874 2 years ago

Thanks frunch. It appears column 5 is non-operational and I have a board problem. I got columns 1-4 to work with the switch test, but as soon as I try to get column 5, nothing.

Schwaggs, based on this, your suggestion was to replace chip IC18, correct? Is that a simple matter?

Should I still post a pic of the switch stack of the pop bumper? If I replace the IC18, will I short it out again?

Sorry for the novice questions and really do appreciate the help.

#875 2 years ago

I looked up IC18 and it appears that it's chip 6821. Is it a simple replace? I suppose it's best to get the appropriate tool, ground myself AND to unplug the machine to replace (remembering a little of my old computer chip replacement knowledge)?

Thanks all.

#876 2 years ago
Quoted from mjvancam:

I looked up IC18 and it appears that it's chip 6821. Is it a simple replace? I suppose it's best to get the appropriate tool, ground myself AND to unplug the machine to replace (remembering a little of my old computer chip replacement knowledge)?
Thanks all.

IC 18 on the driver board is a 7406 hex inverter. Its right next to the switch matrix connectors. It is a 16 pin IC which is fairly easy to replace. Purchase 16 pin sockets with this chips to make future replacement easier. If you have a good wire cutter, you can cut all the legs off the chip and desolder the legs one at a time. Get some desoldering wick to clean the solder out of the holes.

#877 2 years ago

Thanks Schwaggs (getting closer).

In the first image, I see 2 7406's - the top one in green is 7406PC and the bottom one in red is 7406N. Which one would need replacing?

And I assume you are suggesting installing the white 16-pin socket, as per the red circle in the 2nd diagram?

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1 week later
#879 2 years ago

Anyone ever replace the bell with something else? Maybe a buzzer, chime or knocker?

#880 2 years ago

Looking for opinions. I think the standard knight sticker on the drop targets is a little boring. I saw the alternate that was posted here with the shield and I like it but I thought maybe something else would be cool as well.

So I came up with these ones. I'm sure someone has already done something similar but I haven't seen them.

What do you folks think? I've just shifted the knight up/down in each of the images. Just keep in mind that the bottom section is covered and below the playfield.

BK_drop_targets (resized).png

#881 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

Looking for opinions. I think the standard knight sticker on the drop targets is a little boring. I saw the alternate that was posted here with the shield and I like it but I thought maybe something else would be cool as well.
So I came up with these ones. I'm sure someone has already done something similar but I haven't seen them.
What do you folks think? I've just shifted the knight up/down in each of the images. Just keep in mind that the bottom section is covered and below the playfield.

Seeing all those faces just repeated 12 times, I don't think that changing what face it is is going to help that much. It'd be cool if we had some three part pictures to break it up...

#882 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Seeing all those faces just repeated 12 times, I don't think that changing what face it is is going to help that much. It'd be cool if we had some three part pictures to break it up...

Actually, that's a good idea. Let me see what I can come up with. Still like "my" knight better than the original. Sorry traditionalists, unfortunately I'm not one...

#883 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

Still like "my" knight better than the original

Oh, I agree, but it's just like on my Jungle Lord. I bought full sets of new target decals for both and had to take them off, it just looked so bad with 10+ of the same thing just arrayed around the game

#884 2 years ago

The clouds have lifted! Schwaggs & frunch - thanks a ton! I managed to replace the hex inverter 7406 and voila, she's good as new (or refurbished).

Thanks again - I never would have known what to do once I left the electrical checking behind.

11
#885 2 years ago

How about something like this? Just quick and dirty, needs lots more work. I'm open to suggestions. Photoshop is my friend!

BK_drop_targets_3part (resized).png

#886 2 years ago

Ah, yeah what are you waiting for...

Those are sweet.

#887 2 years ago
Quoted from mjvancam:

The clouds have lifted! Schwaggs & frunch - thanks a ton! I managed to replace the hex inverter 7406 and voila, she's good as new (or refurbished).
Thanks again - I never would have known what to do once I left the electrical checking behind.

Nice! Congratulations on the fix!

#888 2 years ago

Is that in reference to the drop targets? Which ones? I have to play with the 3-part set and see if I can get the horses head up a little higher. Might need to reduce overall size so I can shift them up. But if people are liking this, I can put in the effort and see how it turns out. Feel free to critique.

#889 2 years ago

Yes to the triptych.

#890 2 years ago
Quoted from mjvancam:

The clouds have lifted! Schwaggs & frunch - thanks a ton! I managed to replace the hex inverter 7406 and voila, she's good as new (or refurbished).

That's great, man! Thanks for following up. Enjoy your game!

#891 2 years ago

How about this set...? The colours seem to be much better when you actually download and save the image. Maybe just need to do some more cleanup.

BK_drop_targets_3part_v2_2 (resized).png

#892 2 years ago

You should move it up a little more to allow for the bottom that is covered by the playfield. A lot of the graffics will be covered and look like it's to low.

#893 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

You should move it up a little more to allow for the bottom that is covered by the playfield. A lot of the graffics will be covered and look like it's to low.

I'm fighting with cutting off more of the top of the knight with what I lose on the bottom. I took into account where the part number is on the original. If I shrink everything a bit and shift it up, it doesn't fill the space well across the three targets. I would have preferred the knight to be more centered on the target but then the horse's head gets split across 2 targets and there's lots of empty space on one end.

I might try skewing the image a bit and see how it turns out. I just don't want squash or stretch it too much and make it look weird. This is just trial and error. I will print a set and test fit them and see how they look.

Glad to get some feedback travish!

#894 2 years ago

I understand now. If you need an additional tester I volunteer.

#895 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

I understand now. If you need an additional tester I volunteer.

Feel free to download and print travish, if you have the time. Post some pictures if you do!

#896 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

How about this set...?

I Like it!!!

#897 2 years ago
Quoted from dzorbas:

What do you folks think? I've just shifted the knight up/down in each of the images. Just keep in mind that the bottom section is covered and below the playfield.

Those look great! I'd say the one where the graphic is up highest looks best to my eye. Share the file?

#898 2 years ago

Oh holy CRAP, I was just replying to your initial post of the knight head. Those "triptych" ones are KILLER.

#899 2 years ago

Here's the latest. I think the red and yellow background is finally cleaned up, not that you could tell seeing as they will be printed fairly small. My old eyes are going bad so I can't be certain.

Anyway, if someone wants to print them up and test fit them, go to town. I have a colour laser printer so mine won't look very good until I get them printed on vinyl. I think this is the highest res I can upload. If you want me to email you either the PNG or the PSD file, send me a PM.

BK_drop_targets_set2_KDZ_v5_final.png

#900 2 years ago

Cant wait to see those installed on a machine.

I think I would break it up, and go with one set up top, other set bottom (6 knights upper) (2 horses lower)...

-mof

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