Hi all, I am restoring my BK with a new CPR playfield and am pretty much back together and I have a ball drain problem. While in play if the ball goes in the middle drain into the trough nothing happens, it acts like it is still in play. Also the left & right drains do not register. I triple checked all 3 switches, visually inspected the wires several times and can't find anything. Fuses look good. Before I did the playfield swap all drains were functioning properly. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Are the outline and trough switches on the same column in the matrix?

Check to see if other functions on it are working. Could be the wire or a diode on that circuit.

Hmm, everything else works. It looks like the outline and trough switches share a white/yellow wire, there is also a green/orange wire that is prevalent. I traced both back to the MPU by hand and it looks good. Possibly I will have to do a true connectivity test on those wires next. I forgot to mention that I did replace the trough coil and was extra careful rewiring it but maybe something got screwed up. If I supply external power to the coil the trough switch fires so I sort of ruled that out.

Do the magnet buttons register in switch test? They're also on the same column as the outlanes. Check the switch matrix diagram--make sure all switches on the same columns and rows as the problem switches are working.

Just ran through diagnostics again. All solenoids fire, even the outhole (1), so it is not the new coil. No errors on switch test. Manually operating the magnet switches register properly. The left outlane (11) registers some times, could just be a bad gap. The weird thing about that is during game play it makes the horse gallop noise which is the inside lane rollover noise. The right outlane switch and outhole do not register during game play or during the manual switch test. So further isolated to just the switches with the left not being as bad as the other two. Thanks for the help so far.

Are you testing with your finger or a ball?

Looking over the switch matrix, i see both the right outlane switch and outhole switch are on the same row. I would very carefully examine *all* the switches on that row, including the *right coin switch*. Test all the switches on that row (row 4), do any other switches work?

If any of those switches has a white-yellow wire or diode that's not firmly attached, you can get weird behavior/lack of response from other switches on the same row.

Check switch gap if everything else looks ok. In order to clean the switches, take a business card or folded up piece of paper and gently squeeze it between the contacts and drag it through to wipe the dust etc on the contacts. Do not use a file, that can damage the gold plating on the contacts and make them less reliable/stop working. A file can be used on higher current switches, such as the flipper button switches and flipper end of stroke switches.

Switch matrix diagram for reference:

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Both

Thanks will give this a try and let you guys know what I find. I did learn the business card trick and have been using my business cards on my switches. I am with you, kind of leaning towards a dead diode or disconnected diode.

Just tested the right coin switch manually via switch test and it is working fine. All other switches in row 4 work. I have continuity between white/yellow wire of the right outlane and outhole and between the green/orange wire of the left outlane and the outhole. Still investigating diodes.

Those 3 diodes test good

You want to make sure your have continuity from the white-yellow wire on every switch on row 4 to the connector at the mpu. Also check the diode for every switch. To be clear, i mean check from the white-yellow wire on the outhole, right outlane, right coin switch, left ramp rollover, and the pop bumper *scoring* switch. Note the pop bumper has 2 switches--an activation switch that ball closes by rolling over the skirt/platter around the base of the pop bumper, and the scoring switch that gets activated when the pop bumper coil fires. I believe that's the switch you want to look at. You'll know which one to check because it'll have a white/yellow wire going to it. If all the wiring is definitely good and all the diodes check good (i presume you're removing one leg from the switch to test the diodes), check the switches in question for continuity. If the switches themselves have continuity when activated with your meter on the lugs as the same leaves as the contacts, it may be a board issue.

OK frunch, thanks for the help. I will test tomorrow.

Found it! Disconnected wire at the pop bumper. Thanks everyone for their help, especially frunch. Woot woot. BTW, the horse gallop noise is valid in all 4 lanes.

NICE!!! This was tricky because the pop bumper has 2 switches, one of which could be easy to overlook. Add to that the fact that the pop bumper worked for all intents and purposes (just didn't score)...

I had a problem on my BK a while back where the start button wasn't working. I checked so many things until i finally looked at the switch matrix and realized i had to check every other switch on the same column and row as the start switch. Sure enough it was the ball-roll tilt on the left side of the cabinet had a wire broke off (same row as start switch). That's when i finally 'got' how the switch matrix works, and perhaps more importantly: how to troubleshoot it.

Good job!

Just wanted to post an update and completion to this post hoping it may help someone in the future. Cody and others you were correct. I ended up changing out the 74HCT154 chip with the "bump" in it and the game now works Perfectly as do all the displays! Simple extraction and Great Plains had them out to me for a minimal $3. Only moderate disappointment in the entire ordeal to be honest is after buying the board, displays, and countless other items from Rottendog I did not receive any response, support, or guidance even after multiple calls and emails. Sad to me as in the past the support has been remarkable and the products used to be fairly premium. Thanks again to All on this forum for reaching out to provide guidance, the BK lives on and the restoration can begin.......

Thought I'd weigh in on the Rottendog cpu vs the original board set.

If you know how to fix them and bullet proof them, then by all means use the original, but it's still a shitty board set. The interconnect flexes over time and they're just a pain in the ass in general. So if you're going to have to send these off and pay $150 or so to fix them, just to have them crap out at random down the road, it might be a better idea to sell them for a small chunk and offset the cost of the new all in one board made with 21st century technology.

I've used the Rottendog several times over the years, I haven't had any serious issues. Just a switch row knocked out from a short, but it was a socketed chip, replaced and it was good to go. Not sure what issues there are with Black Knight, but I've used it in this game too and didn't notice anything.

There are good repair people that can ''do these'' old board sets up, but that does not always eliminate design flaws and many of their 30+ year old components are prone to failure.

I had Chris Hibler work on a system 80b cpu, he did a fine job, and a couple years later with very little use, it crapped out again. I don't believe it to be his fault, it's just a bad board design.

Just my thoughts and experience on it.

NEW Custom Black Knight Illuminated MOD replacement ramps

Show your beloved Black Knight the love he (or she?) deserves! Are your 37 year old ramps dented and showing their age? New from The Mod Couple we offer you this complete plug and play Illuminated Custom ramp set to make your Black Knight Shine!! Simple install, you don’t even have to raise the playfield! (Maybe 15 minutes?) Precision cut from the same stainless steel and hardness as original with a Custom highly detailed theme art cut to accent each piece. Each ramp has an illumination filter as shown with LED back lighting. Light grain finish applied though you could polish them too a shine if you wished. As seen in photo, it does a great job of adding some much needed light to that area while also giving it a Truly custom look!! Everything is included in the kit!! Plug and play LED setup, Both left and right ramps Pre-formed to original shape, and a bottom adhesive shim to ensure level installation. Completely Reversible granted I’m not sure Why you would remove it? Does Not effect ball roll or play. Light up the Knight with this personalized kit. Ramps are in stock now and ready to ship. Feel free to PM me any questions or inquire about purchase. Complete kit is $117 plus 6.95 priority shipping. Thank you for viewing our New Product!!

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Dave and Darcy

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Very cool.

Thanks Vintage. Hard to photo how great it looks live. In my opinion it looks like something Williams would have done to add value and a unique look. Definitely lights up that area which is normally pretty dark.

Those are pretty cool, is the surface smooth? If there's a hint of cut in the metal, won't it scratch the ball and dull them pretty quickly?
Usually we don't see metal cuts where there is ball travel because of this . Even cliffys will dull a ball faster than factory without cliffys in place. So, just curious to see how often the balls will need replacing when using these if they cut into the ball???

Cool idea either way

Great questions and I do appreciate the input. To start I will say that I have had these ramps in personal test for some 500 plus games now (as shown in photo) and there is no sign of wear nor did I see any pitting of the ball with weekly checks. My opinion is in newer era titles (DMD WMS, Bally, Stern) where ball play and travel is Insanely fast, these old titles like BK are fairly slow playing games. JMO The ramps are extremely thin (.020" Stainless HH) and while the ball does travel over them they really don't register any action or movement. In say a Hobbit which also has monogram ramps and high speed travel I would question ball wear. The surface is extremely smooth (same as originals). As for comparison to Cliffy's. GREAT Product that I have on ALL of my games!! My guess is the reason (though I have not seen it) why that application Might wear is because the ball is Technically jumping over the Edge of the Stainless rim. In my application the ball is simply rolling across it. Hope that makes sense and Love my Cliffy's! lol Thanks again for the feedback, they really do look Amazing and almost bring an element to the game that seems to Belong there which is not always the case for a MOD or upgrade.

The Mod Couple

While I have been in the Black Knight club for awhile now making ramps etc today I Officially and Finally finished restoring my own BK! What a great game and wonderful addition to my collection. A call out to Mayfair for the Amazing New replacement backglass. Truly a piece of art and worth Every penny!! I overhauled the machine from top to bottom (labor of love) with new boards, displays, and complete airbrush playfield touchup. Thanks to VID and his Amazing support documents! I did end up giving the Playfield protector a try on this title though I do not give my endorsement nor would I buy any more for various reasons. Just does not look/play right for me. Personal opinion. Other than that thanks to all on this group for the detailed photos, upgrade ideas, and trouble shooting advice when I was trapped with Rottendog board issues. Turned out amazing and Very much worth the time/research/effort.

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Looking good Yelobird, with any luck I am painting my yellow stencils tonight, getting me one step closer to completion on mine.

Good luck with the stenciling! Luckily I didn't have to go that route with only very minor black touch ups to a rather nice original cabinet. Not the case with the Bally Kiss I'm currently working on. That one was a basket case from top to bottom so I'll see how my hand is with stenciling on that one.....

Does anyone know of a place to get the repro plastic set? Looks like they're sold out on all the vendor's sites, by I see they come up on the Pinside marketplace occasionally. Hoping to find a set to go with a CPR playfield. Any pointers would be appreciated!

~Brad

hepgeek Pinball Center in Germany has BK plastic repro sets in stock.

http://www.pinball.center/en/shop/pinball-parts-by-game/black-knight/6769/plastic-set-for-black-knight?c=2818

Looks like that set is missing a few. If it's a CPR set it is anyway.

I may not be in the club for much longer. I have my Williams Black Knight up for sale. I haven't had a chance to upload any pretty photos yet but I have made a youtube video of all the work I have done to it. This was home owned since the late 80's according to old lady I bought it from. Asking $1800.

-full Comet Pinball LED conversion
-new plunger and springs
-cleaned and re-rubbered
-new target decals
-new pop bumper cap
-new flipper and magna save buttons
-rebuild cap kits for the power supply and sound board (not installed...just preventative maintenance I didn't get to)
-new lithium batteries and new battery holder
-cabinet is solid and overall nice condition. typical scuffs and scrapes. I'd say 7.5/8 out of 10
-playfield is nice w/ some wear around the sword inserts and on right magna sling. Say 7.5/8. Typical ball swirl
-magna slings work great

Needed
-main playfield flippers could use a rebuild.

Looks like PPS has CPR plastic sets in stock (inexplicably). I snagged one, and they appear to still be in stock if anyone else is in need of them.

Picked up a Black Knight, anyone have a spare transformer?

It has no transformer?

My bad, its one of the early ones with the transformer in the head.

The guy started taking the machine apart, so all playfield pieces were in a box, along with various parts of the coin door. So I know for sure i'm missing the coin entry part of the coin door, but might have found that for sale.

I should explain my reasoning. The head of the cabinet appears to not be the original. The cabinet has a spot for a tranformer and the holes and ground strap leading to an empty space.

For any of you who have done CPR playfield swaps into your BK: did you sand/polish the CPR clearcoat to glass before installing? My CPR PF has slight raising around the inserts, and while it's not noticeable, I'm worried it'll be a locus for wear down the road. Just worried that the clear on the rest of the PF might not be thick enough to get everything perfectly level. Thoughts? Opinions? Experience? Just install the damn thing and stop obsessing over minutia?

I installed mine years ago (approx 10 yrs ago), noticed similar raising of the clear above the inserts. It hasn't gotten any worse, and i don't think it's ever been enough to alter the balls path when playing. I'll take a closer look when i get home tonight. Congrats on snagging one of the repros. They came out very nice, imo.

I'm officially in! This game looks super fun, even though mine is a fixer. The guy bought it 20 years ago and eventually stopped paying for maintenance. He didn't know how to take the backglass off so I know the balls weren't changed in that time. The upper playfield is especially torn up.

Batteries are super corroded, pulled those out instantly and just bought a nvram. Anyone want to airbrush up my playfield? Haha. I'll probably clean as best I can and wax a few layers ... maybe with Mylar as I don't know when/if I will go for a CPR. I'd be interested in thoughts on that.

Quick question, my plastics that should be next to the flippers are gone, but what's in the metal guides are the wrong screws even if I can fin/buy those plastics. What type of screw/post will I need?

I'm looking forward to playing this one with my kids!

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There aren't usually plastics there. I think they were in a prototype or something, but not regular? I saw someone selling reproductions of them at pintastic but passed on it

Those plastics are from CPR. Here is what they look like.

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Yup, there are plastics that can go there, but from what i understand they were printed upside down. Personally, i kinda like the steel look anyway. I have 2 sets of those plastics if you're interested in a set.

Congrats on your BK, it's a great game! (and pretty difficult)

Interesting, yeah, those are the ones I saw. I was watching some video on YouTube and saw others with steel, good to know I'm not missing pieces I guess haha!

That upper playfield is supper rough and bumpy ... I gotta think about what to do about that. Gotta go with Mylar to help smooth it out right? Or maybe I find a place to just do the work on the upper ...

I will be doing a restore on my BK with new cpr playfield set later this summer or fall after I finish a Funhouse.

I have the original play field plus a spare populated playfield set. Might be able to get you a better upper from one of my two. Just can't remember what shape they are in and it's folded up for now...

For the Red plastic I circled in the picture... what type of screw holds this down? I tried every screw that was used elsewhere in the machine, but they were too big to fit through the holes on the 4 brackets that attach to the playfield.

I've seen a picture that shows a hex head, but dont think i've seen a #4 hex for sale on any of the pinball sites.

Anyone care to shed some light on what is the proper hardware for this?

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Should be a #6 screw.

Thats what I was leaning towards, but it wont fit without reaming it through. I tried the #6 panhead as shown and the #6 black screw used elsewhere in the machine.

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Hmm the marks from the head of the original screw on the bracket looks like a #6 head size also. Whether it fits or not the proper size should be a 6. Eight would be to big and a four would be to small. Drill the hole just a bit bigger in the bracket.

#6 hex-head sheet metal screw.

That would be awesome! Especially if I can start from a better position that this one, there are some more detailed sections that will be tough to manage, and in general it is just rough.

Ok, need some insight from you guys. After cleaning I'm putting back the wires in the head but it looks like I might be missing a few? I don't see any hanging anywhere, and I didn't take anything out. (At least I think I didn't?) I also see a lot going on in the bottom right of the head that I don't see in other pictures in this thread. Any insight to what I might be missing?

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You're missing the gi connectors because it looks like someone modified the stock setup by running the gi circuits through the fuse bank on the lower right. Not a bad idea to fuse each string (instead of a single 20a protecting them all) but with this modification you bypass the gi relay! You won't have the gi flashing effect during multiball start.