(Topic ID: 201649)

Black Knight

By Limited89

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

center drop down targets lower level the middle target will not reset (come back up) Just got the game Saturday new pinball owner. I did pull board up and push it into the up position and it went down when hit but never came back up. It will score when hit with the target in the down position I believe as the lights light up when I knock all of them down or it just constantly registers as being down Any ideas? Thought there was a single rest for all targets but could be wrong. Also on a side note only two light on behind the upper cabinet work one that blinks in the upper right corner and the ball in play light. All other do not light up and I checked all the bulbs work.

#2 6 years ago

What does the drop target bank look like under the playfield? Anything broken? Do the rest of the targets come back up?

#3 6 years ago

They should all reset in unison. Does the center target not come up at all when they reset, or does it just drop down immediately?

#4 6 years ago

Everything looked good under cabinet it is the middle target it won't come back up after it is knocked down after I manually push it up. The others rest fine it just stays down

#5 6 years ago

Most likely something is broken then. There should be a ledge that all three targets reset on. The coil pulls the ledge upwards to push all three targets back up, so if the target isn't going up then it must not be making contact with the ledge anymore.

#6 6 years ago

There is a single solenoid in each drop target mechanism that resets all 3 targets into the "up" position. This solenoid has a triangle shaped piece of metal with 3 tabs, one for each target. It is possible one of these tabs broke off. Lift the playfield and have a look!

Old Sytle: http://www.actionpinball.com/pics/01-7036a.jpg

New style (performs the same function): http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/01-7036

#7 6 years ago

I recently had this same problem with the lower left bank on my BK, the middle target was jammed and not moving up or down at all. Not sure if this was the entire cause for it, but the target's spring had somehow popped off the metal tab on the target housing. Gave me an excuse to remove, clean up and tune up the entire bank, and now it's back to working like a champ. In fact, it's working so smooth now that the other three banks seem a little balky in comparison.

#8 6 years ago

Thanks for a the help I did not know if it was a single reset mechanism or if one reset all three at the same time. I have three manual that came with the game but am looking for one that might have a diagram with part numbers etc. got all the wiring ones but no mechanical ones. New pinball owner never worked on one before. This was my favorite game when I was growing up and came across and opportunity to own it so I jumped on it for a very cheap price. I shall check to see if the tabs have broken off or if the spring has come off when I get home tonight. Now just have to figure out why only two lights behind the glass back board work and not the rest. Also a quick question about the right flipper. Cannot remember if is was normal for the right flipper not to seem weak and not be able to send the ball all the way up the left side ramp to the upper level. It will sometimes but only seems to when I actually kind of give the flipper button a harder push like I am helping the flipper to send the ball. I did clean the contact for the flipper button on the right side did not help have not looked at the EOS for that flipper yet.

#9 6 years ago

Here's a diagram: http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1980/files/mobile/index.html#117

In those years the mechanical stuff was in a separate parts manual.

If your flippers are weak can't hurt to rebuild them with new parts. There are kits available online.

Most of the lights on the backglass are General Illumination lights that should come on as soon as you turn the game on (like the ones under the plastics on the playfield), and aren't controlled by the CPU. There are some other lights (like Game Over) that are CPU controlled. Which lights exactly are/aren't working?

#10 6 years ago

There was 3 lights working back there but I did something and only 2 work now. The High score light flashes and the extra ball light flashes when you acquire the extra ball. There was one other one that stayed on constant some where next to the extra ball but cannot remember what is was. Those are the only GI lights working behind the glass. I did remove some of the bulbs and made sure that they worked and were not burnt out. Do not know if these are like some Christmas string where one goes out and they all go out or not.

#11 6 years ago

Also does anyone know where I can find a new or used inside ramp on right hand side as mine is worn and is buckled so if the ball is moving slow it gets stuck in it and you have to pull the glass off and remove the ball. I could disable the tilt mech and bump the machine in the mean time.

#12 6 years ago

Not sure where to get the original ramps but someone on here is selling this mod: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1080-the-mod-couple/00866-new-custom-black-knight-illuminated-mod-replacement-ramps

You could also remove the ramp (4 tiny phillips head wood screws - 2 at the top and 2 at the bottom) and bend it back into shape, and screw it back down.

On the light issue, have a look at the manual, second to the last page should be the Lamp Matrix and the Switch Matrix tables. The Lamp Matrix table show the Same Player Shoots Again and High Score to Date are in the first column. Same Player Shoots Again is in Row 1 and High Score to Date is in Row 6. The other lamps that are not working are on Rows 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8 so those signals are not making it to the backbox. Since other lamps on the playfield that are on these rows are working, we know it isn't a driver board problem. This leaves a wiring problem as the likely cause. There is a small connector in the wiring harness from the backbox to the light board. With the machine off, disconnect this connector and have a look at the pins to make sure they are not corroded and are physically strong. Plug it back together and make sure it is fully seated.

The whimpy flipper could simply be a poorly adjusted End of Stroke (EOS) switch. This switch engages the "hold" coil so the flipper coil doesn't burn up if you are holding the flipper up for long periods. To adjust it propoerly, push the pawl into the coil with your finger so to where it bottoms out. Do not push the pawl in by holding the flipper bat up or you will not end up with the best adjustment as the the slop in the links and such will cause you to end up too loose of an adjustment. With the pawl bottomed out, adjust the EOS to be a gap of 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. If this gap is larger than this, you will notice reduced flipper power.

#13 6 years ago

If the light blinks on and off then it's not a GI light, all the GI are wired together so they can't be blinked by themselves. The GI is controlled by a relay in the back which is fed by the yellow wires coming from the power supply board. Often these wires or their connectors are melted which could be causing your problem.

#14 6 years ago

The GI wiring is fed to the backboard through the same connector as the controlled (lamp matrix) lamps. Sounds like this connector may be loose.

#15 6 years ago

Love this site and getting really good info and thanks for everyone's inputs. I am sure I will have a few more as time goes by. Would love to fully restore this game but having too much fun playing it right now.

#16 6 years ago

Hope the photos loaded

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#17 6 years ago

That switch could be a bit closer but it's alright. Looks fairly pitted though, so it could probably use a replacement. Flipper rebuild kits will include it too.

#18 6 years ago

On the backbox lights, check your fuses

#19 6 years ago

Fuse is good. Wires look intact. Do not know about the two places where the yellow and red wires go into boards and have no clue how to open this two up to check wires

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#20 6 years ago

That black connector is the right one that connects the controlled lights and the GI to the backboard.

It is hard to tell from that pic but are those pins dark and corroded? They shouldn't be green at all and should be clean metal colored.

Also, there are 2 GI fuses, the one on the power board (which is good or all GI lights would be out) and the one on the back of the backboard (you can see it in your picture).

#21 6 years ago

One more issue just came up. Just noticed that when game goes into multi-ball play for 2 ball the ejector by the plunger keeps going off about every 10 seconds. Does not do it in 3 ball multi-ball mode. Do not know if that is normal or not. Hate for that solenoid to go bad or wear out if God for bid I get a good long play in two ball multi play

#22 6 years ago

Also on a note there is a connecter that has two yellow wires coming off it on the bottom far right computer board that's looks burnt. I pulled it off wires look good but the connector is brown and looks burnt. These yellow wires do go into the big black connector in first picture for front panel lights. Been reading blogs and think that that might be the GI connector that regularly burns up but do not know. Will attach photo after I get home. If it is and it is burnt do I replace just the connector or will I need to replace the whole board it connects to?

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from Limited89:

Also on a note there is a connecter that has two yellow wires coming off it on the bottom far right computer board that's looks burnt. I pulled it off wires look good but the connector is brown and looks burnt. These yellow wires do go into the big black connector in first picture for front panel lights. Been reading blogs and think that that might be the GI connector that regularly burns up but do not know. Will attach photo after I get home. If it is and it is burnt do I replace just the connector or will I need to replace the whole board it connects to?

That is the GI power input from the transformer into the power board. It is regularly burnt. One of my boards got so hot there, it unsoldered this connector from the board!

Since it is working (you have GI lights on the Playfield), I wouldn't worry about it for now. If you are planning on swapping the GI lighting to LEDS, you can leave it as the load on that connector with LEDs will be significantly lower. If you are staying classic, you should replace both the part on the board and the pins in connector on the wire side. No need to replace the board, you can replace the connector that is on the board.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Limited89:

One more issue just came up. Just noticed that when game goes into multi-ball play for 2 ball the ejector by the plunger keeps going off about every 10 seconds. Does not do it in 3 ball multi-ball mode. Do not know if that is normal or not. Hate for that solenoid to go bad or wear out if God for bid I get a good long play in two ball multi play

That is not normal

#25 6 years ago

Did you check it with a meter, swap in a known good one, or eyeball it? Sometimes they burn out on the end and look ok when they're actually bad.

#26 6 years ago

I swapped the fuse out with another one from a different position on the board same results

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Limited89:

One more issue just came up. Just noticed that when game goes into multi-ball play for 2 ball the ejector by the plunger keeps going off about every 10 seconds. Does not do it in 3 ball multi-ball mode. Do not know if that is normal or not. Hate for that solenoid to go bad or wear out if God for bid I get a good long play in two ball multi play

I would check those trough switches. If one of them isn't opening and the game thinks there are still two balls in the trough it might keep trying to kick one out. Could also be ball 3 is getting stuck and keeping that switch closed until one drains and pushes it down. Switches 41, 42, and 43 maybe? Look at switch test before a game is started. Which switches are closed? Start a game, grab the ball and hold it in your hand. What switches are closed now? Now go into two ball multi-ball state. What switches are closed now?
Pinwiki could help too: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#General_Illumination_Connection_Design_Flaws

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