La Porte, TX
Scared too. Jajaja
(Topic ID: 94003)
Linked Games
Black Knight 2000
Williams, 1989
Topic Gallery
Moe
Quoted from JuanSolo:Really could use some help/Ideas on this BK2K I have been working on.
It's a friends BK2K. The entire Playfield was swapped, it worked fine before the swap.
-After the Playfield swap the game would boot and freeze after the "I AM THE BLACK KNIGHT" callout and display 00.
-Before I touched it the owner moved the CPU board to Swords of Fury, (without switching any ROM chips) The game booted and then froze, like it did in BK2K, displaying 00. (I did not see this, but I trust him, read further and you'll see why it's confusing)
-He decided it was something on the PCB after that "test", so he asked me to look at it. I found some really black diodes and some build up of corrosion on connector pins, and tons of cold/crappy looking solder joints. I replaced the fishy diodes, re-flowed the solder on the entire board, as well as emory-clothed all connector pins and the legs of each removable IC. I also installed NVRAM and removed the remote battery. Under the original battery tray there were a lot of scratches across traces but none seemed to go too deep into the green solder mask.
-When I installed the board It booted, I could add coins, and start a game. I completed an entire game and it worked fine for 2 games. I left victorious. He turned it on hours later and started a game, and the similar problem happened again, this time though in the middle of his game. Frozen and 00 displayed. From this point on it is randomly Freezing & displaying 00 or rebooting (exiting out of the in progress game and back to attract mode)
-So I came back and checked all of the connectors, re-seated everything, same issue
-Swapped the ROM chips with Swords of Fury, then swapped the PCBs (So the SOF PCB was in the BK2K with the BK2K ROMS...and BK2K PCB was in SOF with SOF ROMS) and the Game worked perfectly fine in SOF....but the exact same issue happened on BK2K with the random freeze/reboot after (or during 1-2) games. (indicating to me it was not the PCB)
*this confused me as it seemed the issue was NOT following the PCB....which contradicts the initial information the owner gave me.
-So this made me think it might be the ROM chips because that was the only constant (Besides the Playfield+CPU Chips+other PCBs) So I bought new ROMS and put them in, still the same problem using the SOF board with the BK2K chips.
-I bought new CPU chips as well (MC6802P) came in a pack of 5. when I replace U24 with the new CPU chip the game boots and has the same Freeze/Reboot issue. If I replace U15 with a new chip, the machine doesn't boot (Same thing happened in Mousin Around & SOF so it could just be the new CPU chips, however it's weird that it works fine in U24) Only if U15 has one of the original MC6802P chips will the game boot (and have the same Freeze/reboot issue)
-I have swapped every combination of PCBs and CPU chips in his SOF AND Mousin' Around and the issue Never follows the PCB or chips....I am unable to replicate his initial "The problem followed the PCB" diagnosis.
-Now I am at a loss, I have inspected tons of Diodes (I know testing them while installed isn't super reliable) but they seem Ok, I did find one on that looked toasted on the upper-playfield-target bank (and wasn't letting any current pass either direction) so I replaced that one (although it tested fine once removed)
-I have tried playing a game with the sound PCB unplugged, all of the display wires unplugged, and I went one-at-a-time unplugging each Connector from every board, booting up, starting a game (as long as the connector didn't disable the start button) and the Freeze/reboot would still happen randomly. I also tried with the upper playfield hardware unplugged (The lower PCB with J1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 connectors), I have swapped the Power PCB, and the Aux-Power-Driver PCB with SOF & Mousin Around (ones that matched) and no luck, same Frozen and 00 display/random reboot issue on the BK2k table regardless of what known good hardware is in it from the other 2 machines.
any Ideas?
Are you sure it isn't a powersupply related problem. Have you checked back through the power wiring from the main board looking for heat stressed connectors?
I've got a bunch of flashers that aren't working. Looks like someone got a wild hair up their ass and decided to LED... kind of. My flipper lane guide flashers (both sides) have LEDs but won't flash. Tried new LEDs as well as incandescent, no dice. Both flashers up top are LED and they work. Most of the back box is incandescent and those appear to work. Under the uturn is incandescent and works. Most of the others on the playfield appear to not work.
Are the aux and interconnect boards the two potential problem areas or are there other places to check also?
20220413_224843 (resized).jpg 1 week later
Back in the club.
9127FA61-65CD-4B00-972C-D8E335053548 (resized).jpegB79E4081-7350-418B-B25F-A1CD63BC6C34 (resized).jpeg80814ADD-0301-4297-AD98-653DFA65803A (resized).jpeg4B83C0E7-A2A2-4C7F-8489-B6C61F06240E (resized).jpeg099BE3E4-D80E-465C-B4AD-787B201C6EB8 (resized).jpeg016C7AF8-CCD3-45BE-A71E-0BA90B74752A (resized).jpegCDECEA81-1036-4910-91B1-485FC012F6A1 (resized).jpeg51F7AE1C-1603-48DD-9EE5-95BABBF48D9C (resized).jpegBC780B7C-ED98-41FF-AA15-639525D71BAF (resized).jpegRemoved the odd color choices in the inserts, like the purple. Also removed the cool white LEDs in the backbox and replaced with regular bulbs. Shopped and new rubbers installed and plays fantastic.
IMG_7836 (resized).JPGIMG_7838 (resized).JPGIMG_7840 (resized).JPGIMG_7841 (resized).JPGIMG_7839 (resized).JPGIMG_7844 (resized).JPGIMG_7847 (resized).JPGIMG_7848 (resized).JPGIMG_7849 (resized).JPGIMG_7850 (resized).JPGIMG_7851 (resized).JPGQuoted from PoMC:Back in the club.
Looks to be a fine example! Hang onto it this time!
Quoted from PoMC:Back in the club.
No magnet wear and all of the support arms on your right ramp are intact. Nice survivor!
Quoted from BriPin:No magnet wear ...
Looking at the layer errors on the lower right near the magnet, it looks to be a Mirco Replacement playfield.
Quoted from mastercello:Looking at the layer errors on the lower right near the magnet, it looks to be a Mirco Replacement playfield.
No, it's original. Build date May 9, 1989
Quoted from PoMC:No, it's original. Build date May 9, 1989
The machine cut factory mylar and wear at the drop point from the wireform gives it away.
1 week later
Wiener Neustadt
Quoted from pvogel3634:Can someone please take a picture and give me a quick measurement or two on the latching bar that holds the upper playfield in the up position? Mine is missing. Thanks
[quoted image]
20220508_102129 (resized).jpg20220508_102147 (resized).jpg20220508_102214 (resized).jpg20220508_102224 (resized).jpg20220508_102244 (resized).jpg
16519983001752576217879081235851 (resized).jpg16519983376629181623663966151490 (resized).jpg 2 weeks later
Hello. My BK2K will register magnasave when hitting the right flipper button ONLY if the trouph 1 switch is active. No other switches on the magnasave or trouph 1 column or row so the same thing. If the trouph 1 switch is not active, the magnasave switch works normally (from the edges test)
Any suggestions what to check?
I've tested (and replaced for good measure) the diodes on the magna save, trouph 1, and right lane change switches. They all tested fine.
Thanks!
Quoted from harig:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]
Even though I wasn't the one who asked for this - man, you went above and beyond. Thank you.
Quoted from attack7777:Even though I wasn't the one who asked for this - man, you went above and beyond. Thank you.
Thanks
At least someone honors the effort 
as there was not the slightest 'thanks' from the requester
Off we go for a health check / nvram / light servicing. Probably thinning the herd a bit soon, idk.
That GI plug....yiiiiikes. I'll repin that while I'm at it.
Quoted from harig:Thanks
At least someone honors the effort
as there was not the slightest 'thanks' from the requester
Thanks much, I may need that some day.
Quoted from BobLangelius:Thanks much, I may need that some day.
You are welcome
Glad it is useful
2 weeks later
I have two system 11B boards ready to ship monday, one to one original board design. Upgraded transistors to not need the second set of high wattage resistors.
Check it out:
https://pinballbasement.com/products/d-11883-system-11b-cpu-board
1 week later
Quoted from Dwboca:Joined the club today, also rounded out my collection of all 3 black knights
Excellent!
Quoted from Dwboca:[quoted image]
Nice, don't think Ive ever seen all three together.
Quoted from RobW:Nice, don't think Ive ever seen all three together.
Its quite exciting. I don't think i have until we completed the set. They all play different but equally fun
2 weeks later
Well, boards are back. I'm still fighting flasher issues. I get voltage at the socket during solenoid test, just like at other (working) flashers. Swapped bulbs. Nothing. I don't get it. I have like 4 that just don't seem to work: flipper lanes, far left (under the upper PF), and the top in the head (BLACK KNIGHT lettering). I believe all the others work.
If it's not any of the boards in the head, but I have voltage at the sockets... where do I look next?
20220705_214628 (resized).jpgQuoted from KSUWildcatFan:Well, boards are back. I'm still fighting flasher issues. I get voltage at the socket during solenoid test, just like at other (working) flashers. Swapped bulbs. Nothing. I don't get it. I have like 4 that just don't seem to work: flipper lanes, far left (under the upper PF), and the top in the head (BLACK KNIGHT lettering). I believe all the others work.
If it's not any of the boards in the head, but I have voltage at the sockets... where do I look next?
[quoted image]
I'm having similar issues with mine though the mentioned lights/lamps do work when I press the flipper buttons.
Quoted from Dwboca:I'm having similar issues with mine though the mentioned lights/lamps do work when I press the flipper buttons.
I'm sure it's something stupid somewhere under the playfield or in the loom. It's weird, because I get voltage at the flashers that aren't working. But my interconnect was serviced and my understanding (probably wrong) is that the flasher warming resisters are all on that..so... I don't know. I'll get it figured out so someone else doesn't have to.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:I'm sure it's something stupid somewhere under the playfield or in the loom. It's weird, because I get voltage at the flashers that aren't working. But my interconnect was serviced and my understanding (probably wrong) is that the flasher warming resisters are all on that..so... I don't know. I'll get it figured out so someone else doesn't have to.
I'm following along. When I get more than 2 minutes I'll put some more effort into it. If I can sort it out ill post here
Quoted from Dwboca:If I can sort it out ill post here
Likewise!
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:I get voltage at the socket during solenoid test, just like at other (working) flashers.
The flashers in this game are all switched (A/C multiplexed). You should only have voltage present when the C side is switched in. This is typically momentary (seconds in duration) when the software energizes the A/C relay. How are you measuring this? What is your definition of "get voltage"?
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:I have like 4 that just don't seem to work: flipper lanes, far left (under the upper PF), and the top in the head (BLACK KNIGHT lettering).
You should quote which flashers work and do not using the manual descriptions. The better your descriptions the more likely you will get help. Bonus points if you using the table nomenclature (1C-8C).
First thing is to actually verify that the drive transistors for solenoids 1-8 work. Make sure that solenoids 1A-8A work in test. If they all work then 1C-8C should work as well if the flasher supply voltage is switched in with the A/C relay switch.
Quoted from Dwboca:I'm having similar issues with mine though the mentioned lights/lamps do work when I press the flipper buttons.
This is likely due to installing all LED flashers (no incandescents). This causes a brief flash of 3C/4C/6C/7C when the flippers are energized. There is a thread on this forum that describes this and how to prevent or fix it.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:But my interconnect was serviced and my understanding (probably wrong) is that the flasher warming resisters are all on that..so... I don't know.
Those resistors on the interconnect board are not warming resistors. They are current limiting resistors. If I assume that the same flashers that don't work in the playfield are the same flashers that don't work in the backbox (insert) - you can verify with the wire colors to be sure - then the common point of failure is the interconnect board. There are board repair technicians out there who offer "repair" services that I have had to re-repair because they were not tested. The same thing applies to "I bought a new board so it can't be bad" - I have seen a brand new Rottendog board with an IC installed with a bent leg not in the socket. Clearly that board was never tested before being sold/shipped.
Quoted from DumbAss:This is likely due to installing all LED flashers (no incandescents). This causes a brief flash of 3C/4C/6C/7C when the flippers are energized. There is a thread on this forum that describes this and how to prevent or fix it.
.
Thanks for this. This is the second time I've been told this.
I'll search out the thread
Quoted from DumbAss:The flashers in this game are all switched (A/C multiplexed). You should only have voltage present when the C side is switched in. This is typically momentary (seconds in duration) when the software energizes the A/C relay. How are you measuring this? What is your definition of "get voltage"?
You should quote which flashers work and do not using the manual descriptions. The better your descriptions the more likely you will get help. Bonus points if you using the table nomenclature (1C-8C).
[quoted image]
First thing is to actually verify that the drive transistors for solenoids 1-8 work. Make sure that solenoids 1A-8A work in test. If they all work then 1C-8C should work as well if the flasher supply voltage is switched in with the A/C relay switch.This is likely due to installing all LED flashers (no incandescents). This causes a brief flash of 3C/4C/6C/7C when the flippers are energized. There is a thread on this forum that describes this and how to prevent or fix it.
Those resistors on the interconnect board are not warming resistors. They are current limiting resistors. If I assume that the same flashers that don't work in the playfield are the same flashers that don't work in the backbox (insert) - you can verify with the wire colors to be sure - then the common point of failure is the interconnect board. There are board repair technicians out there who offer "repair" services that I have had to re-repair because they were not tested. The same thing applies to "I bought a new board so it can't be bad" - I have seen a brand new Rottendog board with an IC installed with a bent leg not in the socket. Clearly that board was never tested before being sold/shipped.
Great response and truthfully I was hoping you would. I'll pour over this tonight in hopes that it gives me some clarity.
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Well, boards are back. I'm still fighting flasher issues. I get voltage at the socket during solenoid test, just like at other (working) flashers. Swapped bulbs. Nothing. I don't get it. I have like 4 that just don't seem to work: flipper lanes, far left (under the upper PF), and the top in the head (BLACK KNIGHT lettering). I believe all the others work.
If it's not any of the boards in the head, but I have voltage at the sockets... where do I look next?
[quoted image]
Sorry for being way late to the party. I also see that you had all the boards sent out. In my case it was the interconnect board. One flash circuit wasn't working. If you have a volt meter you can buzz the in and out of the board to make sure there is continuity.
20220708_211153 (resized).jpg 4 weeks later
Hey all, trying to work out why my 'I' target isn't working -- please see individual thread at https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-knight-2000-drop-target-not-registering ... thanks!
Just brought home a beautiful example of a BK2K. Love this game, love the music, and the flow is just a perfect example of what Williams could do. Heres the catch. Original owner removed the mylar completely, artwork is still in good shape, but the insert decals are a bit rough. They were replaced with above printed decals, which are starting to wear. My plan is to get a good set of decals and the full mylar sheets from Marco. Anyone have any insight on where to find a good set of decals, and am I going about this the right way? Thanks!
Quoted from MydknyteStyrm:Just brought home a beautiful example of a BK2K. Love this game, love the music, and the flow is just a perfect example of what Williams could do. Heres the catch. Original owner removed the mylar completely, artwork is still in good shape, but the insert decals are a bit rough. They were replaced with above printed decals, which are starting to wear. My plan is to get a good set of decals and the full mylar sheets from Marco. Anyone have any insight on where to find a good set of decals, and am I going about this the right way? Thanks!
Joined the club today thanks to KSUWildcatFan (who was outstanding at working with me). Don't have all three and don't plan to but I will settle for "just" BK and BK2000.
Quoted from Michel_K17:Joined the club today thanks to KSUWildcatFan (who was outstanding at working with me). Don't have all three and don't plan to but I will settle for "just" BK and BK2000.
Quoted from SkyKing2301:YOU CAN DO IT YOU CAN DO IT
To quote KSUWildcatFan "Give me your money!"
Congrats on the game.
Quoted from La4s:To quote KSUWildcatFan "Give me your money!"
Congrats on the game.
Ha ha!
I have some financial stuff to tackle and I'm eyeing a TNA2.0. BK2K will be missed in my row, but I'm confident it went to a good home!
2 weeks later
Quoted from MydknyteStyrm:Just brought home a beautiful example of a BK2K. Love this game, love the music, and the flow is just a perfect example of what Williams could do. Heres the catch. Original owner removed the mylar completely, artwork is still in good shape, but the insert decals are a bit rough. They were replaced with above printed decals, which are starting to wear. My plan is to get a good set of decals and the full mylar sheets from Marco. Anyone have any insight on where to find a good set of decals, and am I going about this the right way? Thanks!
Dunno if you went through with the Mylar but you might want to consider a playfield protector instead. Much more reversible if you ever decide to clear coat and I think it plays closer to a clearcoated machine, which I personally prefer (others will disagree). Anyway just a thought!
Joining the club.
I've got a question regarding building the bonus. It seems that the end of ball bonus I am typically seeing is fairly low. I can have seemingly a very good ball, but the EOB bonus might be 10k if that.
Even if you have the multiplier at 5x, it's of little benefit if you barely have any bonus.
So what do you have to do to build a good bonus on BK2K?
Thanks.
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Joining the club.
I've got a question regarding building the bonus. It seems that the end of ball bonus I am typically seeing is fairly low. I can have seemingly a very good ball, but the EOB bonus might be 10k if that.
Even if you have the multiplier at 5x, it's of little benefit if you barely have any bonus.
So what do you have to do to build a good bonus on BK2K?
Thanks.
The bonus is built up by the cumulative number of upper loops and U-turns (over the course of the game). So keep the ball alive longer, collect lots of those, and increase your multiplier, and you'll be on your way to good bonuses.
The upper loop counter maxes out at 99, in case you're wondering.... 
Still trying to find a reason current market estimate for BK2000. Any one willing to share a fair current market value… ?
Quoted from dfester007:Still trying to find a reason current market estimate for BK2000. Any one willing to share a fair current market value… ?
Condition matters quite a bit. Don’t think you’d find a decent one for less than 3k in this market. A fully restored one (new playfields, ramps, parts, LEDs, sound) might push 6 or 7k.
My opinion only.
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