(Topic ID: 94003)

Black Knight 2000 Club - Knights of the Lightning Wheel.

By NextoPin

7 years ago


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  • 887 posts
  • 178 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by BriPin
  • Topic is favorited by 99 Pinsiders

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There are 887 posts in this topic. You are on page 18 of 18.
#851 4 months ago
Quoted from RonKral:

I'm having a strange problem with my BK2K.
It looks professionally installed - is it factory?
[quoted image]

Hey Ron - I would agree that it sounds like a stuck switch in the service menu, but if you've eliminated that, then possibly something up with the dedicated switch matrix. Attached a pic of my service buttons (needs a cleaning when you look at this up close, gross ), and looks like I have a diode on the left hand switch as well.

IMG_8304 2 (resized).jpg
#852 4 months ago

This diode is factory standard, i have it on my BK2K, Whirlwind and SoF

#853 4 months ago

I have a question about the end of stroke switches in Black Knight 2000.

In short, while my left flipper and my upper flipper have one EOS switch, my lower right flipper has two switches there: one that is normally closed that opens when the flipper is flipped, and another that is normally open that closes when the flipper is flipped. Is this normal for BK2Ks, or is my machine just weird? I checked my Swords of Fury, my only other System 11, and all four of its flippers have only one EOS switch.

The reason this is important is that thanks to thirty+ years of metal fatigue, the part of this switch pair that is moved by the flipper that frobs these two switches has snapped off completely, so I need to fix this somehow, either by replacing one or both switches, or adding a new piece of metal to be the trigger for these switches.

Thoughts?

#854 4 months ago
Quoted from RonKral:

However, when I try to go into diagnostic or settings, it
goes into a loop yes/no, yes/no, yes/no again and again.

Are you sure you are trying to enter diagnostics? Sounds like you are trying to reset the high scores.

Quoted from RonKral:

There IS a diode across the terminals and I've never seen this before.
Is this normal? Can someone look at their machine and see?
It looks professionally installed - is it factory?

That switch is the "High Score Reset" switch. It is switch 8 (18) and is part of the switch matrix. It requires a diode.

system11_coin_door_switches.jpg

The diagnostic switches are separate inputs to the CPU board at 1J14. They are not part of the switch matrix.

#855 4 months ago
Quoted from Finrod:

In short, while my left flipper and my upper flipper have one EOS switch, my lower right flipper has two switches there: one that is normally closed that opens when the flipper is flipped, and another that is normally open that closes when the flipper is flipped. Is this normal for BK2Ks, or is my machine just weird? I checked my Swords of Fury, my only other System 11, and all four of its flippers have only one EOS switch.

Thoughts?

It's factory. The manual shows the flipper wiring.

bk2k_flipper_wiring.jpg
#856 4 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

It's factory. The manual shows the flipper wiring.
[quoted image]

I don't understand its purpose, though. I would imagine that it has to do with both right flippers being on the same flipper switch, as opposed to the usual double flipper switches used on other Williams machines with upper flippers, but I don't understand enough of the electronics to understand what's going on there. It's also making fixing it a pain in the sawdust.

#857 4 months ago
Quoted from Finrod:

I don't understand its purpose, though. I would imagine that it has to do with both right flippers being on the same flipper switch, as opposed to the usual double flipper switches used on other Williams machines with upper flippers, but I don't understand enough of the electronics to understand what's going on there. It's also making fixing it a pain in the sawdust.

My guess is that ONE is for the hold coil, and the other is for the switch that tells the CPU that you pressed the flipper button?

#858 4 months ago
Quoted from Finrod:

I don't understand its purpose, though. I would imagine that it has to do with both right flippers being on the same flipper switch, as opposed to the usual double flipper switches used on other Williams machines with upper flippers, but I don't understand enough of the electronics to understand what's going on there. It's also making fixing it a pain in the sawdust.

It is good that you are trying to understand the WHY.

Normal lower/upper flippers are wired with a cabinet double leaf switch. The first closure completes the lower flipper. The second closure completes the upper flipper. This allows the flippers to be energized independently of each other but always the lower first and upper second. You can hold (cradle) a ball on the lower flipper while using the upper flipper independently.

Simultaneously energizing the lower and upper (a hard press of the cabinet button) will draw high current from the flipper supply at the same time. This will drop the voltage and potentially affect the amount of current that can be delivered. The strength of the power stroke of the flipper is related to the amount of current that flows through the solenoid.

The wiring on Black Knight 2000 is different. The wiring on the right flipper removes the voltage supply from the upper flipper until the lower flipper completes the power stroke. When the lower flipper EOS opens and closes the second switch in the stack the second switch provides the voltage supply to the upper flipper which will then energize. This changes the current draw from parallel to serial. The lower flipper draws all the high current first and when it has completed the power stroke then the upper flipper is then energized and draws high current.

So why do this? The most likely reason is to allow most of the initial high current draw to power the lower flipper to get the ball up the ramp to the upper playfield. The ramp is steep and the flipper solenoid is FL-11630. It's the strongest flipper solenoid Williams used when the machine was manufactured. Williams later introduced two stronger flipper solenoids (FL-15411 and FL-11629).

If you want something comparable you could change the cabinet flipper button to a double leaf switch and wire the cabinet switch like every other game with lower / upper flippers. Along with the switch change you can change the lower flipper solenoid to FL-15411 or FL-11629. This will increase the power stroke of the lower flipper to get the ball up the ramp in the case when someone presses the button and activates both flippers at the same time. The drawback is that now you have a stronger flipper hitting the drop targets on the lower playfield that can increase the risk of mechanical damage from the increased power. Not to mention the potential increase in speed through the U-Turn. It is fast enough already.

So many choices ... but in the end the only thing that matters is the game flips!

#859 4 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The wiring on Black Knight 2000 is different. The wiring on the right flipper removes the voltage supply from the upper flipper until the lower flipper completes the power stroke. When the lower flipper EOS opens and closes the second switch in the stack the second switch provides the voltage supply to the upper flipper which will then energize. This changes the current draw from parallel to serial. The lower flipper draws all the high current first and when it has completed the power stroke then the upper flipper is then energized and draws high current.

This was super educational. Thank you from us fellow dumbasses.

#860 4 months ago

Hi All, I bought my first pin BK2K a few weeks back and I'm loving it more now than back in my younger days at the arcades. I've already worked through a couple of minor issues that I found on Pinside and in this forum. Thanks for sharing / help and the insights - good stuff

2 weeks later
#861 3 months ago

Picked up my 2nd Black Knight 2000. First time diving into it. Spent the last 20+ years in the same house. My guess is it probably came off route in the late 90s but wherever it was located, it didnt get too much play.

Upper playfield needs a little more attention than the lower, including raised WAR inserts. Thankfully no wear in the lower horseshoe. Just dirty everywhere.

20210404_085242 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#862 3 months ago

ahhh - that'll be so satisfying cleaning that up and looking at the before and after. let us know how it turns out

#863 3 months ago

With the counting of the skyway loops to apply to the bonus, can anyone else confim -- does it top out at 99?

I had an absolutely epic game the other day -- my best ever, 29,548,250 -- and I knew my skyway loop total was getting way up there ... it was 80 something before my last ball. Then after my last ball ended it say 99 loops (and 27 u-turns)...so I was curious if that was a coincidence or does it just top out?

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#864 3 months ago

Weird issue maybe one of you can help with... My lower right flipper EOS switch... confirmed working operates correctly until the power switch for the upper flipper closes and then the EOS switch tests closed even though it is physically open... confirmed not shorting off something in the assembly as I pulled the switches apart and can reproduce the results off the assembly. Did my best to trace the whole flipper circuit and cant figure it out...

#865 3 months ago
Quoted from SkyKing2301:

can anyone else confim -- does it top out at 99?

yep - both loops and uturns top out at 99

#866 3 months ago

That explains much about the flipper setup-- the lower flipper enables power to the upper flipper when the lower hits end of stroke, but since flippers move so fast we don't notice that the lower flips before the upper, and not having both high-power coils on at the same time on the right side reduces power spikes. I had my understanding of it all wrong; thanks for the info.

1 week later
#867 3 months ago

Ive joined the club today! It needs cleaning and some work, but plays. Cab is nice too!
Thinking about taking off the mylar. It has the old style plastics.

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#868 3 months ago
Quoted from RobW:

Ive joined the club today! It needs cleaning and some work, but plays. Cab is nice too!
Thinking about taking off the mylar. It has the old style plastics.

Nifty! Congrats!!

#869 3 months ago
Quoted from RobW:

Thinking about taking off the mylar.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

it's a hard work don't destroy this masterpiece

#870 3 months ago

Nice. I might rethink removing the mylar if I were you...could be more awful than you're thinking in terms of pulling up artwork.

And get *RID OF* all of that awful black rubber on the playfield. Ick.

#871 3 months ago

As someone who ruined a playfield by trying to pull up the mylar, don't do it

#872 3 months ago
Quoted from boagman:

Nice. I might rethink removing the mylar if I were you...could be more awful than you're thinking in terms of pulling up artwork.
And get *RID OF* all of that awful black rubber on the playfield. Ick.

Ill give it a good clean and polish the mylar and see how it looks.

Is someone making the ramp?

#873 3 months ago
Quoted from RobW:

Is someone making the ramp?

Marco has it in stock.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/PR010

#874 3 months ago

I pulled the mylar off mine a couple weeks ago. Pretty minimal art loss just went slow and used the freeze method. That said the adhesive took several days of work to get off after. Lose a tiny bit of text on my hold bonus insert and then a little bit of paint around one of the wheel inserts.

I was hesistant to try it but decided it was a grail game for me and I wouldnt be happy with rough mylar. Figured worst case if I trashed it I could always grab a mirco one but would much rather use the original.

#875 3 months ago
Quoted from silen7ce:

I pulled the mylar off mine a couple weeks ago. Pretty minimal art loss just went slow and used the freeze method. That said the adhesive took several days of work to get off after. Lose a tiny bit of text on my hold bonus insert and then a little bit of paint around one of the wheel inserts.
I was hesistant to try it but decided it was a grail game for me and I wouldnt be happy with rough mylar. Figured worst case if I trashed it I could always grab a mirco one but would much rather use the original.

How many cans of freeze did it take? Are you going to put mylar back on it or clearcoat it?

#876 3 months ago

2 Cans for the lower playfield. I left the upper alone as it was still in decent shape. I just put several coats of wax on before playing it. I'm debating if I want to either just put mylar in front of the slings and on the magnet or put a playfield protector on. Don't have space to CC it myself.

3 weeks later
#877 70 days ago

Hey, can one of yous guys check the pins on your upper playfield GI relay?

I don't seem to be getting GI flashes on the upper playfield during multi ball.

That is when they flash right?

20210518_171455[1] (resized).jpg
1 month later
#878 38 days ago
Quoted from RobW:

Hey, can one of yous guys check the pins on your upper playfield GI relay?
I don't seem to be getting GI flashes on the upper playfield during multi ball.
That is when they flash right?
[quoted image]

You can swap the playfield GI relay board with the backbox GI relay board. Actually, in the process, I would resolder all the connections on the back of the board. They are notorious for having broken solder joints.

1 week later
#879 30 days ago

I can't find a schematic anywhere. I've been on ipdb and I can only find the manual which has no schematics. Anyone have a digital file? Or am I just not looking in the right place?

#881 30 days ago

Thank you! I thought I downloaded both of those, but apparently I didn't. Thanks again.

#882 26 days ago

Any interest in these being reproduced? In the midst of reproducing one and then I'll start taking orders afterwards. They will be powder coated. (Can be powder coated silver to match the originals, or any color you'd like) Shoot me a PM and I'll add you to the list.

16251827865496342491023937593935 (resized).jpg
#883 25 days ago

So here's the first prototype for the wireform. Going to fix the metal tab to the sling so it's wider. Then sand and polish to make it look smooth and then powder coat it silver. Have a few people interested in these....but also had an idea: what if we also made ramps to go smoothly down the right inlane, making it harder to catch on your right flipper? Would make this game not a right flipper only game. Any interest in those and I'll start prototyping those as well. Would also make the game more tournament friendly.

received_4339242506127663 (resized).jpeg
#884 25 days ago
Quoted from truemagoo102:

So here's the first prototype for the wireform. Going to fix the metal tab to the sling so it's wider. Then sand and polish to make it look smooth and then powder coat it silver. Have a few people interested in these....but also had an idea: what if we also made ramps to go smoothly down the right inlane, making it harder to catch on your right flipper? Would make this game not a right flipper only game. Any interest in those and I'll start prototyping those as well. Would also make the game more tournament friendly.
[quoted image]

I take it that the final product would be a *lot* smoother than what I'm seeing in the prototype, yes? I know that's me being nitpicky at this early stage, but I can't help but wince at the roughness of the thing.

I have to admit that, even though I'm a stone-cold purist in this way, I'm still *very* interested to see what the end result of having it changed to feed the right inlane would be like. It wouldn't be "right", but it would certainly be *interesting*, and it would very much change the way the game is played if so...and it would definitely make Magna-Save more difficult to implement because vision of that area would then be partially obscured. I'm both repulsed by the idea *and* intrigued by the idea at the same time. Curiosity is getting the better of me, though...I can admit that.

#885 25 days ago
Quoted from boagman:

I take it that the final product would be a *lot* smoother than what I'm seeing in the prototype, yes? I know that's me being nitpicky at this early stage, but I can't help but wince at the roughness of the thing.
I have to admit that, even though I'm a stone-cold purist in this way, I'm still *very* interested to see what the end result of having it changed to feed the right inlane would be like. It wouldn't be "right", but it would certainly be *interesting*, and it would very much change the way the game is played if so...and it would definitely make Magna-Save more difficult to implement because vision of that area would then be partially obscured. I'm both repulsed by the idea *and* intrigued by the idea at the same time. Curiosity is getting the better of me, though...I can admit that.

Oh yeah- it's definitely rough and I will be doing a TON of sanding to get it looking nicer, but this is just the prototype- my friend is also going to invest in a smaller welding rig that will definitely help for the future ones. Just installing this and playing a few games with it- ball is very smoothly going down this, it plays exactly like the original. Now to make it look nice.

2 weeks later
#886 8 days ago
Quoted from boagman:

I take it that the final product would be a *lot* smoother than what I'm seeing in the prototype, yes? I know that's me being nitpicky at this early stage, but I can't help but wince at the roughness of the thing.
I have to admit that, even though I'm a stone-cold purist in this way, I'm still *very* interested to see what the end result of having it changed to feed the right inlane would be like. It wouldn't be "right", but it would certainly be *interesting*, and it would very much change the way the game is played if so...and it would definitely make Magna-Save more difficult to implement because vision of that area would then be partially obscured. I'm both repulsed by the idea *and* intrigued by the idea at the same time. Curiosity is getting the better of me, though...I can admit that.

Definitely interested in one of these as unfortunately my game is missing this piece. Have you considered having them chrome plated like the originals? Whilst it might cost more, it might also deliver more interest and help to reduce the overall cost.

#887 8 days ago
Quoted from truemagoo102:

So here's the first prototype for the wireform.

Oh man, I would love to have a good replacement for this. I have mine strung together with a coat hanger! Any updates on your progress?

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