would this capacitor work as a replacements for the filter capacitor ?
has same specs but not sure if its leads hook up the same way.
(Topic ID: 319695)
Linked Games
Black Hole
Gottlieb, 1981
Topic Gallery
Johns Creek, GA
I suggest posting in this forum:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-club-members-only
Have you tried calling or emailing Pinball Resource to see if they have the correct part?
Quoted from bluespin:Have you tried calling or emailing Pinball Resource to see if they have the correct part?
I agree. Call Pbr with the number out of the manual so he can get you something that will work.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Matthew2015:... not sure if its leads hook up the same way.
That one in the photo has leads for soldering on the wires.
1 week later
can someone help with checking this wiring manual ?
i am working on the 4 stand up targets and some of the wring appears to be not attached or missing.
i have these wires that attach to the first target but i don't have 2 color sets of wires for rest of the targets .
they only have one wire attached to them and not two like the first one. despite the manual saying there should be .
or maybe i read the schematic wrong.
IMG_4225 (resized).JPG
IMG_4224.JPGmanual (resized).pngHere's what mine looks like, hope it helps. The blue/brown traced double wire on the bottom switch in pic is common to all the targets via the bare wire soldered across them all, then each target has its own separate wire on the other lug.
299509414_1616644982067016_5310474634454842262_n (resized).jpg
4 weeks later
i have done more work on it but now i cant get it to boot . it shows the number "six" on the display and the ball saver gate keep firing . i don't' know what to check next.?
only backbox lights up and tilt lights on , is that what's could also cause the score displays to glitch? this pinball has the most stubborn i have ever worked on , i would hate to give up when i have already gotten this far. just random stuff on displays.
somebody please tell me what to check , because i don't have any idea.
IMG_4311 (resized).JPGQuoted from Matthew2015:i have done more work on it but now i cant get it to boot . it shows the number "six" on the display and the ball saver gate keep firing . i don't' know what to check next.?
Go back to the work you just did and inspect it close or disconnect it. You might have controlled lamp voltage or ground running into the switch matrix.
The wiring might have been disconnected for a reason, there is a short somewhere in the matrix.
good news , i noticed that some of pins bent in were not making contact on the a3-j1 and the a1 j4 connectors between the driver board and the mpu so i bent them out a bit and now it no longer tilts on boot . so it will kind of play now as the flippers work . some other bulbs did come on playfield but there still some bulbs and some switches not working yet. some sound effects but no continuous background sound.
after looking at the a3 j3 plug closely, i noticed it had some broken pins and pins that were bent in and not not making contact . how do i repalce the pins in these and what tools do i need?
IMG_4321 (resized).jpgIMG_4322 (resized).JPGQuoted from Matthew2015:how do i repalce the pins in these and what tools do i need?
This is the one with the obsolete pins that are impossible to find. Molex KK series 4366.
Molex 08-03-0304 (singles) or 08-03-0303 (on strips), Qty 66 for these two connector housings.
1. You can get a kit from Docent Electronics (Order # CAGS5-A1J4-K) that contains all of these wires with pins already crimped on the ends and you simply replace them one by one reusing your plastic housings. Based on the wire colors, it looks like yours was already done using a Docent kit. Maybe do it again just replacing the broken ones and keeping the rest for spares.
https://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm
2. There are knockoff Molex pins you can get from just one guy on eBay (equipment99.com). A little less expensive than Docent, but a little more work to crimp them on yourself.
3. NOS (new old stock) of the obsolete Molex pins from eBay and other vendors. Twice the cost of option 1 and 2 above.
-------------
If you crimp, you'll need a crimper tool that does the double crimp. In any case, you'll need a tiny flat-blade screwdriver, safety pin, or a suitable pin removal tool; whichever works.
See: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/General#Pin_Crimping_Tools
I bought this one and it takes a little practice to figure out the size since the numbers on the tool are marked in square mm. If you can convert mm squared to your wire gauge, then you're golden.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FR38529/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
they came back on after i put a fuse in , but the score displays are still showing random things on them.
i did try swapping the displays around and cleaning the connectors the but and it still does the same thing.
i found the cpu board my black hole uses.
i just need make sure the switch setting are correct but it does not have all those dip switches like the original board.
it was made in 2005 and it uses a serial port to change setting which my computer is too new to have a serial port. maybe i should get a rottendog mpu ?. it might fix those glitchy displays problems i am having
Quoted from Matthew2015:i found the cpu board my black hole uses.
i just need make sure the switch setting are correct but it does not have all those dip switches like the original board.
it was made in 2005 and it uses a serial port to change setting which my computer is too new to have a serial port. maybe i should get a rottendog mpu ?. it might fix those glitchy displays problems i am having
http://ni-wumpf.com/Legacy/System80CPU.html
You haven't even fixed the bad connections yet. If it were me, I'd slow down, refer to PinWiki, get those loose/broken pins replaced first; and then do some logical and methodical troubleshooting before blindly blasting it with part$.
Also, do some Googling and try to locate the "B.H.H.H.C. Black Hole/Haunted House, Gottlieb System 80 Club of America" repair guide by The Pinball Lizard, Joel Cook and Vickie Huisenga. There is a ton of good troubleshooting information in this PDF. Read it cover to cover in addition to referring to PinWiki.
Quoted from Matthew2015:they came back on after i put a fuse in , but the score displays are still showing random things on them.
What kind of random characters? All show the same thing as each other? They are blinking, rolling, etc? If they show different things, do the random characters stay with the display when you swap them around? You didn't unplug any displays while powered up, right? Are you able to boot and get to the display test?
Quoted from Matthew2015:i swapped the displays but they show the same thing.
What exactly does that mean? When you swapped, the random characters moved with the actual display or the random characters in score display position 3 stayed in position 3 after swapping?
Can you boot and get to the display test?
they stayed in the same position regardless of what display was plugged in.
also here is what the lower display and credits display show.
i went into the test mode and it displayed diffent things but nothing that makes sense .
so let me know what i should check next.
IMG_4324 (resized).JPGIMG_4325 (resized).JPG
Quoted from Matthew2015:they stayed in the same position regardless of what display was plugged in.
also here is what the lower display and credits display show.[quoted image][quoted image]
Yes, so if they stayed in same position, that confirms a problem with the MPU or connectors. Fix the connectors first.
Last time I saw displays like that though, it was after somebody unplugged/plugged in displays with power applied.
it will check that next , i tried the display test which you get to by pressing the test button 19 times but nothing shows on the displays.
Quoted from Matthew2015:it will check that next , i tried the display test which you get to by pressing the test button 19 times but nothing shows on the displays.
You don't exactly have to hit the test button 19 times.
• Hit the test button once to enter diagnostic mode.
• Then hit the start button once to skip the accounting data and go to step 16.
• Then hit the test button three more times to get to step 19.
its looks like the display connectors form the cpu board have already been repined but it looks like they did not do a good job.
the pins on the front seem okay but the way they are soldered on the back looks so bad.
the two connectors from the mpu board are the only ones that are used for the displays , right?
its either that or a bad chip on the mpu. where can i find a replacement for this connector?
okay after i swapped the displays again i noticed that the type of messed up graphics is different on each display i plug in , like missing segments or locked on segments.. could it be showing it could a problem on each display . could it be one of those two ic chips on the display ?
i swapped the lower playfield score display with the lower right and the displays show different messed up text then it did before.
could it be the 2 ic chips have failed on these displays?
IMG_4330 (resized).JPGIMG_4329 (resized).JPGIMG_4331 (resized).JPGa84e06fd8f68e86c18879b6aa5ec36856c0f1fab (resized).jpgQuoted from Matthew2015:i swapped the lower playfield score display with the lower right and the displays show different messed up text then it did before.
could it be the 2 ic chips have failed on these displays?
Maybe on one, but on all displays? Do you have a known good one you can try in that position? Do you have another machine you can try the display in? I would not dig in too much farther before changing out the pins and verifying connections.
You also need to get more methodical with the troubleshooting. Have you read the PinWiki section about the displays? Did you find the Black Hole/Haunted House Gottlieb Club repair guide PDF?
i don't have a another display or a working to test in there.
no , have not looked into that repair guide but i will.
i have most of the pinball working now , i got the background sound and speech to work by flipping the switches on the sound board . most of the coils are working and it will start and finish a game now. but the only other problem is that when i boot it up , one of the ball drops from the out hole into the plunger
for the ball releasing into the plunger on boot , i found some info on what is likely causing the issue.
its called a Power on "Thunk" when this happens. and the fix is not that simple.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Power_on_.22Thunk.22
i am still having the same problem with the displays .
i found some info on testing the udn6116 chips on the displays with a multimeter.
i have tested my displays and got reading that indicate that some of the pins on some of the the udn6116 chips the don't work.
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/#display
1 week later
update : i have just about everything working except for the displays. i figured out the issue is a bad connector that goes to the J2 slot on the mpu board.
so i have ordered a new connector to fix it.
i was about to put in a Trough Lighting Kit. it came with some clips to hook it up to a bulb socket . can someone show how they hooked theirs up?
i assume its a bulb socket connected to the GI. but not sure which end each the two clips hook on.
Quoted from Matthew2015:update : i have just about everything working except for the displays. i figured out the issue is a bad connector that goes to the J2 slot on the mpu board.
so i have ordered a new connector to fix it.
i was about to put in a Trough Lighting Kit. it came with some clips to hook it up to a bulb socket . can someone show how they hooked theirs up?
i assume its a bulb socket connected to the GI. but not sure which end each the two clips hook on.
If it's connecting to GI, then it's AC voltage.
So, with AC voltage it does not matter. Only issue is the "trough kit" you speak of would need to be compatible with AC voltage to use the GI circuit...
yes its already compatible with ac voltage , it says to attach the two clips to the wires of a socket socket . i got the trough kit from comet pinball.
it says your supposed to attach it to bare wire right before the socket but mine does not have enough space between the wire and socket. so maybe i could attach it to the socket itself. here's the link for the though lighting kit . let me know what the way way of hooking it up would be.
Quoted from Matthew2015:yes its already compatible with ac voltage , it says to attach the two clips to the wires of a socket socket . i got the trough kit from comet pinball.
it says your supposed to attach it to bare wire right before the socket but mine does not have enough space between the wire and socket. so maybe i could attach it to the socket itself. here's the link for the though lighting kit . let me know what the way way of hooking it up would be.
https://www.cometpinball.com/products/outhole-lighting-kit
You just attach the alligator clips to the socket's solder tabs of any GI bulb. It's in the video clip on the link you posted.
If you can't use the tabs of a bulb, (On your Black Hole), you could also just use the braided wire that is stapled to the PF.
okay , i found a better to do it . i used a three way splitter to connect the flipper buttons and though lighting kit . i was unsure about using the clips since they could fall off so just connected to this socket in the door with the 3 way splitter.
IMG_4339 (resized).JPGIMG_4340 (resized).JPGIMG_4342 (resized).JPGsomething i just found with the displays ,
what i thought was a different result every time i inserted a different display , was actually a different result with the same display . i cleaned the pins on the display some more and it was almost working but with a different result every time i inserted into the same connector so it means that the connectors to the
displays are need replaced too along with the mpu connectors. these connectors are different than the ones on the mpu , how do i change them ?
IMG_4344 (resized).JPGIMG_4345 (resized).JPGQuoted from Matthew2015:these connectors are different than the ones on the mpu
Exactly the same style of single-sided connectors originally on your MPU.
See: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-club-members-only/page/56#post-7190965
Here are crimp pins used in the original punch-down housing...
how will the other wires connect to the other displays in series. i thought it was a pass thru connector .?
? the same wires are needed for multiple displays. can 2 wires fit in a crimp connector.?
Quoted from Matthew2015:how will the other wires connect to the other displays in series. i thought it was a pass thru connector .?
? the same wires are needed for multiple displays. can 2 wires fit in a crimp connector.?
Make a "Y" with solder & heat shrink so you only have to crimp one wire into the pin.
I'm not sure why we're posting identical content in two threads...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-club-members-only/page/56#post-7191673
2 months later
thanks for the help with all the advise ,
taking a break from this then coming back to it , did help me to more clearly think on how to fix the problem.
i replaced the display connectors and the connector to the mpu that goes to the displays and that fixed it , mostly
player 4 is still missing part of its segments but maybe its too to a faulty chip on the display .
still to do replace a pop bummer board and tweak a few other thins but it working like it should.
IMG_4410.JPGQuoted from Matthew2015:... player 4 is still missing part of its segments but maybe its too to a faulty chip on the display...
Swap 3 with 4 and if the problem follows you'll know the display itself is faulty... probably one of the UDN6118 chips.
Quoted from sparky672:Swap 3 with 4 and if the problem follows you'll know the display itself is faulty... probably one of the UDN6118 chips.
Good advice. What pop bumber boards fixes did you do?
Quoted from eyeamred2u:Good advice. What pop bumber boards fixes did you do?
The standard recommended updates for System 80, plus new headers and connectors, plus an LED indicator, plus a "fire" test button.
i swapped them and the problem is due to the displays themselves . the working ones have no missing digits on any the connections i plug them into.
so i will change the UDN6118 chips if that's the problem .
the pop bumpers board had some connection issues but i got them fixed except for one which needed a few parts changed on it so i just got a new replacement board. any body use one of these before? seemed cheaper than replacing many of the parts on the original board.
s-l1600 (1) (resized).jpgright now i working on the drop targets , seems like they are sometimes not coming up when all go down.
Quoted from Matthew2015:i swapped them and the problem is due to the displays themselves . the working ones have no missing digits on any the connections i plug them into.
so i will change the UDN6118 chips if that's the problem .
the pop bumpers board had some connection issues but i got them fixed except for one which needed a few parts changed on it so i just got a new replacement board. any body use one of these before? seemed cheaper than replacing many of the parts on the original board.
[quoted image]
Those r fine.
Quoted from Matthew2015:right now i working on the drop targets , seems like they are sometimes not coming up when all go down.
New springs or check drop targets for wear on the bank.
Pinwiki has a nice section on drop targets
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Ottawa, ON
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
