(Topic ID: 214132)

Black hole grd mods

By Groover88

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Groover88
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

Hello pinsiders!! So last night my wife and I are enjoying a few adult beverages playing my new black hole and she starts acting up (the game that is)! When I hit the start button the ball wouldn’t load into the shooter lane and the displays would go blank right after I hear a click under the playfield. I checked all the switches and found nothing. So today I finally bring myself to upgrade the power supply, finish ground mods, update pop bumper boards and do the pull up resistor mod. Hoping to slove my problem. So I pull the power supply board out, pull the heat sink, replace r10,r3, cr7,with parts from gerbers upgrade kit, I also grounded c1 cap to the heat sink and ran a jumper on the back side of the board from ground to the heat sink mounting screw! I put her all back together and plug in the j1 conn and turn it on and Snap the f 2 fuse pops! I had the same issue a week ago but instead of replacing components I just grounded the c1 neg side cap but when I unhooked the c1
Cap ground the fuse wouldn’t blow and the game would work fine. So I unhooked all the ground mods I did this morn and now I’m not getting 5 volts at tp4 it’s at 1.9vdc. So I tried adjusting the trim pot to get 5 volts and I’m getting no voltage change. I can’t figure out why when I hook up c1 to heat sink for ground and do the jumper on The back of the board it pops fuse f2? I assume my pot is bad and that’s why I’m not getting my 5 v adjustment. This is my first gottlieb and I understand they are different than my bally and Williams games. I guess I’m glad that I enjoy working on them as much if not more than playing them but I definitely want to make this thing bullet proof and don’t want to worry about if it’s gonna work or not for the day. Any help would be appreciated!!!!

#2 6 years ago

Have you read first about doing ground mods on system 80b before you did any of that work?

#3 6 years ago

Actually I did not. Am I missing something?

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

Actually I did not. Am I missing something?

System 80b are way different that Bally/Williams...I would not start doing mods on this beast if it was my first System 80(This is just me saying).
I have owned 3 black holes in the past...If your going to dig into it expect a long journey.

#5 6 years ago

I’m starting to agree with ya. I was under the assumption that black hole was a system 80 not 80b. I’ve done some board work and I am by far no pro but I get it done eventually. I know these are temperamental games but I love the game play just as much as I love working on them. I’ve got a pine wood derby with my son today so I’ll have to time to research this more later. If you think of anything I’m missing I would really appreciate the help. I’m half tempted to grab another power supply board that is already done with the upgrades but I’ve been in maintenance for 25 years and my brain isn’t wired that way. If I do go that route do you have any recommendations on with brand is better?

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

love working on them.

We all do,For right now if i were you i would focus on getting the game to work and to play first..

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

I was under the assumption that black hole was a system 80 not 80b.

Your assumption was correct. Black Hole is system 80, not 80b.

#8 6 years ago

I thought so quench. I did manage to find my 5 v issue I reflowed
The trim pot and had a bad solder joint now I have 5 volts and the game boots and plays again! Which is great. Just gotta figure out why when I do the power supply ground mod it keeps blowing my f2 fuse. More trouble shooting after the pine wood derby.

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

Just gotta figure out why when I do the power supply ground mod it keeps blowing my f2 fuse.

If there is a short between the darlington transistor on the heatsink with the heatsink, and you are using the heatsink as a groundplane (Groundupdate) you will blow the 12V fuse.

If this is the case , check the mica insulation shim between the transistor and the heatsink.

#10 6 years ago

MarAlb I though that myself
So I checked from the heat sink to both pins of the transistor with my meter and got a quick beep then nothin on each.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Your assumption was correct. Black Hole is system 80, not 80b.

Trust me its 80b...

#12 6 years ago

Mine is a system 80. All the ones I’ve worked on have also been System 80s. Why would his be an 80B?

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

Just gotta figure out why when I do the power supply ground mod it keeps blowing my f2 fuse.

The reason this happens is because Gottlieb uses 2 different grounds because they used 2 transformers. C-1 is for the smaller transformer and the heat sink is for the larger transformer. By connecting the 2 grounds you are causing the short. There are certain ways you need to do the ground mods, if you are not sure how to make the connections then ask and I or someone else can show you where and how they need to be done. PS BH is a system 80.

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Trust me its 80b...

Black Hole came out in 1981 on the system 80 platform. System 80B didn't come out till 1985...

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Black Hole came out in 1981 on the system 80 platform. System 80B didn't come out till 1985...

Now that I have your attention,HELP THE MAN.....

#16 6 years ago

Pfffftttttt.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

Pfffftttttt.

Whatever Jack!! 12yrs and only 332??? This should be a great example.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Now that I have your attention,HELP THE MAN.....

MarAlb and GRUMPY have already offered excellent advice

One thing the OP didn't mention checking in terms of the advice from MarAlb was testing if the heatsink was shorted to the metal casing of Q3. OP only mentioned testing between the heatsink and the two pins of Q3.
Grounding the heatsink while the mica insulator or the screw hole insulators between Q3 and the heatsink are missing or failed will cause fuse 2 to blow since the metal casing of Q3 is connected to the +12VDC input from the rectifier guarded by fuse 2.

Pictures of the power-supply and the mod causing the issue will probably help.
Also without the mod, what voltage is being measured between the negative lead of capacitor C1 and the heatsink?

#19 6 years ago

Let's do this the easy way.Heck with that crap,Look down on other post..

#20 6 years ago

Good morning gentleman! Once again my pin is down! The ground
Mod that is blowing my f2 is a wire from the top side(neg lead
Of cap c1) to the heat sink mounting screw right below it. Shown by the arrows. Does anybody think my incomplete
Ground mods would be causing my current issue? Same as before when I push the credit button when the machine is in attract mode the game displays go blank I get a click under the playfield and no ball is served to the shooter lane. After a min or so the displays come on and pressing the credit button does the same thing. Yesterday reseating all the connectors in the back box seemed to fix the issue temporarily. I’m thinkn a bad connection some where but not sure. The worst part is I put probably 30 games on it before this starts to happen.

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#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

Yesterday reseating all the connectors in the back box seemed to fix the issue temporarily. I’m thinkn a bad connection some where but not sure. The worst part is I put probably 30 games on it before this starts to happen.

Sounds like you found your own problem, connectors need repined.

#22 6 years ago

Here's some vids from my friend Clay one of the best men in pin hobby ever,To those who want to run around crying for mama I did not watch the vids but they do cover a lot of great info about this beast.Just to give the OP a good feel about his problem and while I'm at it JOIN UP TO THE PINBALLNINJA SITE @ cfh@provide .Its covers more than 800 awesome repair fixes through every pin and worth every cent Hands Down..Thank you!! Much more vids and info on his site these are just a few!!

1 week later
#23 6 years ago

I wanted to give an update! My bh is alive once again! I did all ground mods, replaced the power supply with a new rotten dog, repinned the interconnect cable between the mpu and driver board, I also repinned the cable between the power supply and mpu! Seems
to be working great now! Bh is the hardest machine I’ve ever played by far, just got my first multiball lastnight and a score of 500000! I haven’t done the pull up resistor mod yet still doing my research on that! Thanks for the info everyone!!! Here’s a pic of her all lit up. I added 4 green spots to brighten her Up a bit. No sure if I like the green but it will do for now Any opinions?

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2 weeks later
#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Groover88:

I wanted to give an update! My bh is alive once again! I did all ground mods, replaced the power supply with a new rotten dog, repinned the interconnect cable between the mpu and driver board, I also repinned the cable between the power supply and mpu! Seems
to be working great now! Bh is the hardest machine I’ve ever played by far, just got my first multiball lastnight and a score of 500000! I haven’t done the pull up resistor mod yet still doing my research on that! Thanks for the info everyone!!! Here’s a pic of her all lit up. I added 4 green spots to brighten her Up a bit. No sure if I like the green but it will do for now Any opinions?

Congrats! Is it green because it's a zombie?

Impressive amount of work getting it going, but I'm voting you ditch the green. Colored GI just generally doesn't do any favors, imo, except in very limited circumstances.

#25 5 years ago

Yea I agree with you the green has got to go! My 10 year old son talked me into it. I wish they made a 4 plus 1 led with color on the 4 sides and the top led white as to not wash out the plastic colors. Maybe something to try I’ve got enough to sacrifice a few for the cause.

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