Congratulations on your new machine. I am presently looking for a project Black Hole myself.

Do you have to turn it off? Have you tried starting a new game or hitting the slam switch?

I had a random tone get stuck on power up and power down on my Gottlieb Volcano, which has same sound & speech board as yours. I finally tracked it down and fixed it. Follow the saga here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-80-sometimes-a-random-continuous-sound-on-boot

You do not have to replace these headers, nor do you have to use the punch-down style connections. All of the single-sided KK-0.156 Molex headers in a Gottlieb System 80 can be re-pinned with crimp-on pins pushed into the original header body.

The Molex pins are part number 08-52-0072 (18-24 AWG) and are readily available at most places including Amazon. Just have to borrow, buy, or make a pin release tool. Also get a good crimper tool that will make the proper double-crimp.

The way to do it is how the schematic shows. What is this fuse wired into? Why do you say you don't think it was wired correctly?

There was an old Gottlieb service bulletin that talked about adding fuses to slingshot circuits; is this for that?

The schematic shows one wire with color 766 on one side and TWO wires on the other: color 744 and the one going to the service outlet hot side.

If you have two wires on each side, then you'll have to physically trace the extra one.

Yes, otherwise, the fuse would be bypassed. After complete, I would pull the fuse out to verify that it kills power to the machine as intended.

Those are controlled by solenoids 1 and 2, if I am reading the manual correctly. They both fire together but not independently, if I understand your description correctly.

I would conclude:

• the Driver board is working since the two solenoids fire at all
• the inputs and matrix are working since each target is scoring properly

We can pretty much rule out the game logic, right? What are the chances the PROM is corrupted but the game still plays?

So I'm thinking it's something screwy in the logic of the Z28 decoder (74LS139).

It's a guess, but it's a cheap guess. If you don't want to randomly swap chips, use your logic probe to examine the inputs and outputs of Z28 when the solenoid is supposed to fire.

Screen Shot 2022-09-01 at 10.05.45 PM (resized).png

https://www.futurlec.com/74LS/74LS139.shtml

I'd power it down and unplug it the connector.

Check for continuity of the ground pin back to ground buss.

Then power up the machine and measure voltages at the connector.

Pin 19 - Ground
Pin 18 - +5 VDC
Pin 17 - +42 VDC
Pin 16 - 3 VAC
Pin 15 - 3 VAC

Screen Shot 2022-09-02 at 8.44.20 PM (resized).png

From the Black Hole manual:

MPU switch 30 to turn Attract mode on/off

MPU switch 32 for background tone (Sound board only, Sound & Speech, this switch stays off):

Screen Shot 2022-09-12 at 1.10.34 PM (resized).png

Sound board switches 3 and 4 for attract mode:

Screen Shot 2022-09-12 at 11.26.24 AM (resized).png

A wire bending jig is mentioned in the wire's description:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-8593

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-WS-KIT

Local hardware store like Ace Hardware would have e-clips in the bins in their nuts/bolts aisle. You can buy them one at a time there for probably something like 25¢ each. It's also a great place to get oddball stuff like bushings, springs, t-nuts, etc.

But why? What is wrong with the original sockets? I just cleaned mine with a scratch pen and good to go.

You would still have to completely remove any style of socket to take apart the pop bumper. Nothing gained there.

I guess I don't understand the issue or how having wires would be easier there. Soldering two wires together under the playfield is always more difficult because you need a third hand. Plus you'd need to tape or heat-shrink the exposed wire connections and then deal with that next time.

On my four pop bumpers, I just tinned the ends of the socket leads and the wires with solder ahead of time. I held the wire against the lead and touched them with the hot tip of the soldering iron for a couple seconds. Easy and quick.

This is the one with the obsolete pins that are impossible to find. Molex KK series 4366.

Molex 08-03-0304 (singles) or 08-03-0303 (on strips), Qty 66 for these two connector housings.

36d069365ea4496175de8b13f16ff363024184b8 (resized).jpg

1. You can get a kit from Docent Electronics (Order # CAGS5-A1J4-K) that contains all of these wires with pins already crimped on the ends and you simply replace them one by one reusing your plastic housings. Based on the wire colors, it looks like yours was already done using a Docent kit. Maybe do it again just replacing the broken ones and keeping the rest for spares.

https://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm

2. There are knockoff Molex pins you can get from just one guy on eBay (equipment99.com). A little less expensive than Docent, but a little more work to crimp them on yourself.

ebay.com link: itm

3. NOS (new old stock) of the obsolete Molex pins from eBay and other vendors. Twice the cost of option 1 and 2 above.

-------------

If you crimp, you'll need a crimper tool that does the double crimp. In any case, you'll need a tiny flat-blade screwdriver, safety pin, or a suitable pin removal tool; whichever works.

See: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/General#Pin_Crimping_Tools

I bought this one and it takes a little practice to figure out the size since the numbers on the tool are marked in square mm. If you can convert mm squared to your wire gauge, then you're golden.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FR38529/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

If it were me, I'd slow down, refer to PinWiki, get those loose/broken pins replaced first; and then do some logical and methodical troubleshooting before blindly blasting it with part$.

Also, do some Googling and try to locate the "B.H.H.H.C. Black Hole/Haunted House, Gottlieb System 80 Club of America" repair guide by The Pinball Lizard, Joel Cook and Vickie Huisenga. There is a ton of good troubleshooting information in this PDF. Read it cover to cover in addition to referring to PinWiki.

They're only rated for smaller wire sizes 22-26. The obsolete pins are rated for larger wire sizes 18-24.

Also, I'm not so sure about Molex series 4573 being physically interchangeable with 4366. Otherwise, the rest of us wouldn't be paying more for the Docent kits, OEMs, and knockoffs.

Since all are controlled by MPU, the MPU is probably at the root. But it's just a guess since condition of displays, connectors, etc. are all unknown.

Do you have a logic probe or digital meter? Do you have the schematics? Did you look at the display section of PinWiki?

I eliminated my power thunk using the same model of reset generator chip that's used to replace the MPU reset section. It was not difficult to do. If you only care about the ball popping out, you would just need to attach the mod to the one driver chip that controls that output. Somewhat simpler and at a later date you can always add jumpers to the other output chips as needed.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Power_on_.22Thunk.22

Docent has nearly every single connector housing you could need for System 80. Their style contains the pins permanently in the housing and there are lugs for soldering the wires. I prefer to re-pin the originals, but if that's not possible, Docent has this solution.

https://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm

Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 12.24.03 PM (resized).png

Just wow! That is (or was!) a Docent connector... but looks like a one-armed blind man tried soldering it with a propane torch. Ironically, some of the heat shrink tubing isn't even fully shrunk!

Again, wow!!

I agree... the only option here is clipping it off and starting fresh. A good hot soldering iron with a medium/small tip, quality flux, and decent small diameter solder. Just touching the iron for a second or two should be enough to make the connection. Any smell of melting plastic and you're doing it wrong.

I have ordered from them before. Good people. The owner is retired but answers emails and his daughter fills orders. You email them with a list of parts... they respond with the total price plus shipping. Then you have to send them a USPS money order. They confirm and ship as soon as money order is received.

I doubt it. With the Halloween '22 and election messaging, their home page seems pretty up to date and active enough.

Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 6.41.06 PM (resized).png

There's also a phone number and ordering instructions.

https://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/Forms%20and%20Info%20pages/shippingandpayment.htm

If you're referring to this, Google relies on crowd-sourcing so that information may not be 100% accurate. Notice the phone number on Google is not correct; and the address does not the match where I sent my last payment. (That may be the founder's location- his daughter took over the business last year)

Screen Shot 2022-10-03 at 6.46.46 PM (resized).png

I was merely responding to false information about them being out of business.

If you only unplugged everything, etc. to remove the head for the move, then you likely have a dirty connection(s) someplace. You may also have had some bad connections that broke from the vibrations of travel. Gently clean the card edges and inspect the pins in all the plastic housings. Inspect all wiring and solder connections for breakage.

Otherwise, besides connections, there's not much else that trucking vibrations can affect.

Yep... one or more of the connections is bad.

I'd work backwards from the solenoid to the Driver board connector, etc...

I'm not talking about anything on the boards. I am talking about wires connected to the pins inside the plastic connectors. Start at the solenoid and work towards the connectors rather than starting at the MPU and working outward.

Yep. That's the same one I suggested to you previously.

No. There is no shortcut. You sometimes have to fiddle with it or jiggle the tool a bit. You just need to release the locking tab and it comes right out. If the connector is mangled, look at it under magnification and make sure no part of the pin is bent and catching plastic.

Since Gottlieb controls the copyright, you can only buy from a licensed dealer or used via eBay, etc.

PBR is authorized and sells them for $20.

Part number GM-668

http://www.pbresource.com/Blackhole.html#doc

Don't assume anything. Swap with one of your known working pop bumper boards.

Have you read the PinWiki yet? Seriously.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Pop_bumper_problems

These are simple boards that are fairly easy to repair. BigDaddy, when they reopen, sells a rebuild kit which makes it easier.

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/gottlieb_kits.htm#g-pop1

How are you testing? Are you jumpering between pins 4 & 6 on the driver board to bypass the trigger switch?

Those are called punch-downs. Those are what the "single sided" connectors on your MPU used to look like.

The crimp-on version of these pins are still obtainable and they will fit inside these same plastic punch-down housings without a problem.

Molex 08-52-0072 (single) or Molex 08-52-0071 (on strips)

I found some on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Molex-08-52-0072-Connector-Position-Straight/dp/B06VVJSKWT/ref=sr_1_1

Using Molex crimp-on pins with the punch-down connector...

IMG_3002 copy (resized).jpg

No. I just spliced the two wires together about an inch back from the crimp and left one longer. Crimped onto longer one. Not a big deal.

I would not try to jam two wires into one crimp-on; it's asking for problems since the crimp is not large enough.

It's really not a big deal to solder and heat shrink unless soldering & heat shrinking is something you're not familiar with. I had to remove the punchdown for my score 3 ground and do the same...

IMG_3005 copy (resized).png

Ah yes... the same place where this came from...

from Clay's Guide for System 80

We will agree to disagree.

I simply posted a photo. Do not accuse me of "dissing loads of respected info" when no such thing was ever stated. You obviously drew that conclusion completely on your own.

As far as the original idea. Of course it "works" to crimp two wires into one connector. It also "works" to crimp a connector onto a wire by smashing the barrel end with a hammer, but I wouldn't claim it was done properly.

You're inventing words and ideas I never expressed. We're talking about quality of wiring so the photo speaks for itself regarding that.

You seem to be getting very angry and personal instead of just agreeing to disagree.

We agree! Now let's wonder why they don't recommend.

Yes, they are standard ⅜"-16 bolts, but unsure of the length because mine are not original. You would only need them long enough to make it all the way through the nuts; anything longer is pointless. The washers are just flat washers, but they are larger diameter than standard flat washers. They are also not as large as fender washers. 1.25" O.D. Honestly, I am unsure if my washers are original but they match what I presume are the original indentations in the wood.

This game does not have one.

Todd says "bring a two by four":

Sending you a direct message.

Maybe there's enough plastic left to drill and tap one screw size larger?

SW-06 and/or game shutting down has nothing to do with pop bumper boards, because these do not have any connection/communication to the MPU. The pop bumpers are activated "directly" by the ball (ball impact -> switch closes -> corresponding pop bumper board fires power to solenoid). When a pop board fails, the pop bumper simply fail to activate, and the MPU never knows anything about it.

However, the scoring switches on the pop bumpers connect to the MPU.

(pop bumper activates -> scoring switch closes -> MPU adds points)

"SW-06" represents the scoring switches for all four pop bumpers on the top playfield. Make sure all of these switches are properly adjusted and none are stuck closed. Look for wire colors 855 (slate/green/green) and 666 (blue/blue/blue) to properly identify the scoring switch contacts.

Screen Shot 2023-01-08 at 1.06.23 PM (resized).png

AFAIK, all Gottlieb System 80 games have these same legs, right?

Ok, thanks. So I dug into this further...

FWIW, according to this post, Black Hole has the same legs as Haunted House, which are 27" front and 31" rear.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/haunted-house-5#post-6913543

Thank you for sorting that out.

Sure thing. Any time.

As sysprog suggested, this seems to be a clue. Everything plays normal except you're hearing a sound that you shouldn't. I suspect that you're getting a trigger from perhaps a bad connection. Otherwise, if it had anything to do with actual tilt circuits, you'd get a game stoppage.

Yes. I agree with @sysprog. The sound signals are triggered by the Driver board. Check every connection/connector from the Sound & Speech board to the Driver board. Sound signals 1, 2, 4, and 8 are pins 6, 5, 1, and 7 in A3J5; and Sound 16 is pin 9 in A3J2.

Check the basic stuff first. Wires/connectors.

GameTronik website?

Have you performed the Sound and Speech board test procedure that is shown on page 18?

Since the speech is generated electronically and some phrases are working, I suspect that your S & S board is perfectly good but the sound triggers are not reliably coming over from the Driver board.

The SC-01 chip contains the ability to generate 64 different phonemes, and the game's phrases are generated by combining these electronic sounds as per the EPROM. The MPU sends a signal to the Driver board, then the Driver board fires its transistors and sends one or more sound triggers, "S1", "S2", "S4", "S8", "S16", and "S32", out to the S & S board, where the EPROM tells SC-01 how to generate the phrase.

Without the appropriate triggers, the sound will not be generated.

You are correct that you have something that is being affected by heat. Since it's only certain sounds, you may want to focus efforts on your Driver board and connectors. The sound triggers come from the Driver. You can get a logic probe and check outputs next time it fails. Do you have the schematics?

Do not neglect the fact that your connector pins can also be sensitive to heat. Have you re-pinned any connectors? Cleaning will not accomplish much if the metal pins are not springy enough to maintain contact. If they are not maintaining solid contact, temperature can have a huge effect. Not only that, a loose connection will get hot, which then makes the problem worse.

IMHO, I am betting the root problem is in the connector pin(s), especially if your S & S board passes the test on page 18.

Are they really for sale? FWIW, I checked the Coos website and it has Black Hole, but it says:

"The (pinball) backglasses shown on the pictures are not for sale but already used for private restoration projects, pictures for showing purpose only."

https://www.coos.net/bingo_e/Backglasses.html

I don't need one, but was curious on price.

Since you said they were for sale, but the website says they are not, I was hoping you knew something more.

Black Hole game head in OH - $40

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/214129437867744/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A2b28593a-cfcb-4aa3-a32a-36031abd64b5

It's likely the display, but you don't need a spare to test. Just move a known good display from another spot into the Player 2 spot; and if it works, you'll know it's the display.

There is very little that can go wrong on these displays. If the glass is good, the chips and other components can be replaced as needed. If the glass is bad, it can also be changed or you can just salvage the good chips from the board. I have spare boards with no glass, I have spare glass and chips... all still fairly easy to obtain thanks to eBay.

The display driver chips can easily be tested as per this procedure:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#/media/File:TestingUDN6118AndUDN7180.jpg

Does this machine have a Gottlieb S&S board with a standard Black Hole sound ROM?

Gottlieb System 80 Sound & Speech cards can not say "error" unless it's part of the game. Black Hole does not say "error"...

Screen Shot 2023-04-09 at 10.03.18 PM (resized).png

It also does not say "error" in the S&S test routine...

Screen Shot 2023-04-09 at 10.03.59 PM (resized).png

Very strange. I don't know what it's saying, but it cannot say "error" even once, let alone five times. (maybe it's possible some MPU or Driver problem is triggering random phonemes that sound like "error"?)

Please take a video of this and post it here. After taking the video, shut down machine and reseat the S&S board connector... then power up and try again.

Also, did you try doing the Sound & Speech test as per page 18 of the manual that I posted above? Follow each step as written.

Sound & Speech board, not the "Sound only" board? Which version? There are three that are compatible with System 80. The part number will be on the board.

Does your board have an original Votrax SC-01 chip?

Please post high-res photos of the board.

Whether it's saying "tilt" or "error" is a big difference. This is why I was hoping you could post a video so we can hear it.

And that's not a high-res photo of the sound & speech board.

Screen Shot 2023-04-10 at 3.15.38 PM (resized).png

I'm really trying to help you.

• Can you post a video of the sound so we can hear?
• Did you re-seat the connector to the S & S board yet?
• Did you try doing the S & S test as per page 18 of the manual?
• Which version of S & S board? The part number will be on the S & S board.
• Does your board have a Votrax SC-01 chip?
• Can you post high-res photos of the front & back of the S & S board.

Interesting idea. To get the board to say "four" one time, during Game Over, you first have to go through the entire sound test and then jumper pin 11 to ground. Turning machine on/off removes it from the sound test mode.

I wonder what would happen if the sound test button is stuck closed while having a ground on pin 11? Can you get to the end of the flowchart without touching the DIP switches? With a persistent ground on pin 11 does it repeat the sound or just say it once? But it's still not in Game Over when you first turn it on.

Absolutely, without a doubt, that's saying: "Tilt, tilt, tilt, tilt.. tilt... tilt.... tilt..... tilt....... tilt"

9 times, not 5, starting fast and each one progressively spoken slower.

Sounds are triggered by a combination of input signals coming through the various sound board connector wires. You had a loose connection(s) that just happened to reproduce the address calling for the tilt sound. You were still able to play because the tilt did not come from a tilt switch and the MPU did not trigger it.

You're welcome. Sounds like it would be a good idea to re-pin these connections.

All Gottlieb System 1 and System 80 games use the same 6-digit displays for score and 4-digit for credit. They are very repairable and readily available on eBay... both working and non-working for parts.

ebay.com link: itm

__________

What was wrong with it? The glass or the chips? Aside from breaking the glass or the filaments in the glass, it's almost impossible to mess these up. Depending on overall condition, I might be interested in buying your broken display. PM me.

How can it be the RIOT or anything else on the MPU if you "metered the physical switches" and "they are showing closed"?

Where are you taking this reading? Unplug in the MPU and meter the switches again. You can also read A1-J6 from pin 4 to 14 to see if it's open or closed (pay attention to your meter polarity as you're reading through a diode).

I would disconnect the wires to the switches in question and read the switches and wires separately. It sounds like a short in this circuit someplace. You may have a short in the switch stack so it's electrically closed when it appears visually open.

Also SW34 represents five switches in parallel. Did you locate and test all five of them?

Screen Shot 2023-05-08 at 9.18.31 PM (resized).png

If I may ask... what did the machine cost you?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1161051931962579/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A61a18dc7-ed8b-4383-9714-3a4652358050

I have no idea about the seller or the machine. Buyer beware, as always.

Yes, I believe this to be true. The System 80 Gottliebs with speech that were manufactured for overseas customers, were shipped with plain sound cards, no speech.

By looking at the schematics.

Screen Shot 2023-06-11 at 8.17.49 PM (resized).png

I am guessing it's L19, since L37 is the Captive Hole itself.

Assuming the MPU is outputting the signal, I would check every connection pin between the socket and MPU.

Screen Shot 2023-06-11 at 8.23.59 PM (resized).png

This System 80 Sound & Speech board might be readily available, but the Votrax SC-01 speech chip is hard to find and typically sells for several hundred dollars on eBay. The LM379S amplifier chip is also becoming rare. There's been talk by one or two pinball sellers about a clone of the SC-01, but so far nothing has been produced.

The Sound & Speech board is a B-20887-x, where x denotes 1, 2, or 3. They are all the same board but with minor revisions. In other words, you could get a rev 1 board and make the simple modifications to bring it up to revision 3.

Also check out Pinwiki for this type of information: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80

A fellow Pinsider developed this product. If I recall, he was in the EU and worked out a distribution deal with US vendors. At $89, it's less expensive than I remember. AFAIK, it works well enough if you cannot get a Votrax chip, but there were discussions about a couple of slight variations in the sounds.

Sounds like you already have this modification. IMO, once you fix the harness between the MPU and Driver by adding a redundant ground and power, the other ground modifications are superfluous.

Yes. Into the hole. CCW...

Get yourself a copy of the manual. You're going to need it for the schematics anyway.

Pages 6-9 explain game play in detail.

I have a Gottlieb Volcano and my serial number, which is on the backbox matches the S/N on my cabinet and coin door. It also matches the S/N on some of my displays and power supply. My Driver board is missing its sticker, my MPU is from a different Volcano, and my Sound & Speech board is from a Caveman. I hope this provides some insight.

It's only proof that your backbox and cabinet came from two different games.

Slightly twisting the tool in both directions, while very gently pulling, helps too. Twisting or rotating pushes the edge of the flat a little more into the tang.

I never needed to use pliers to pull these wires. Force is not required once the tang is released; and pulling the wire harder only puts that much more force on the tang making it even harder to release.

4th bullet point in the manual says both balls should be lost, if I am understanding your question.

Screen Shot 2023-07-26 at 1.49.41 PM (resized).png

A switch gap is too close, bounces, and registers twice for one ball?

Look for switches that detect ball's location... rollover switches are one example. There's also one called "Ball Tube Kicker" switch.

Then everyone with this Pascal board would be experiencing the same.

The likely-hood that the same bug affects two different brands of boards is about zero.

Why not? You've already tried two different boards and get the same result.

100% verified or this is an assumption? Have you physically tested the MPU is getting the signal from every switch in the matrix? Even without a switch matrix test rig, you can put game into switch test mode and manually trip all of the switches to see if all inputs are reliably registered by the MPU.

If Pascal comes back to you and says there is no bug in his board, then making these kinds of assumptions is not going to solve your issue.

Sure... but it can never let you know if a switch is stuck "open".

Maybe there's a broken wire, maybe a connector pin is dirty/broken, maybe a switch contact is dirty or misaligned, maybe a switch is bent too far open and never makes contact... none of these conditions can be automatically tested, and some are not visually detectable. You would need to put it into switch-test mode and manually close every switch to see if the MPU picks it up.

The MPU depends on every single one of the various input signals. If it's not an MPU bug, then it's not getting all the proper feedback from the playfield.

How exactly would the MPU know what to activate if not for the switch inputs?

Unplug A1-J6 (while powered down of course), and then try playing a game without the switch matrix connected.

Correct. His website says that he wrote the software. However, surely others would be reporting the same issue if a bug.

Obviously not.

None of this makes any sense.

Therefore, I am only suggesting that you take nothing for granted, make no assumptions, and simply perform logical definitive testing to rule other things out. Instead, you'd rather argue that it has to be a software bug. You win, and I'll wait to hear about Pascal's forthcoming fix.

Yes, but in my defense, you also said this...

Looking back, I realize now was perhaps a different context, but that was not entirely clear at the time.

Generic? It's just a metal box. There's a cover with three holes, but maybe you don't care about the cover? What exactly are you trying to do? Are you putting machine into service and want to keep the coins locked away from your service staff? Or are you just wanting something for your own use?

I never saw any reproductions or generics. I found my original on eBay several years ago. Try calling Steve at Pinball Resource.

If you don't care about finding an original and don't need the lid, then why not just use any kind of box or container? If you are looking for something with a better fit and a locking lid, anyone you know with some basic tin working tools and a sheet-metal brake could make one.

Maybe you'll get lucky and find a loaf pan or some other square tray that fits. Otherwise, have a sheet metal shop bend one up for you.

They are super simple to repair... only a few parts. Otherwise, if you need to replace the glass, used displays are on eBay. Even the ones I've acquired that were listed as "untested" have worked or been easy to repair. Just be aware, zoom in on the photos and inspect the glass closely. Two things are a game-stopper:

• White dot in one or more corners of the glass means the vacuum has been compromised. Glass is trash.
• One or more of the horizontal filament wires are broken. It may work but portions will be dim and its life shortened.

(even so, the chips might be worth taking a chance if you can get the display for $10 or so)

Otherwise, the chips can be DMM tested as per the PinWiki procedure and swapped out. Also, check for cracked or broken legs on the glass, which could be soldered.

Background sounds have nothing to do with the SC-01, which is only used for speech.

See: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Sound_and_Speech_Board_Operation

Have you tried the sound/speech board test procedure on page 18 of the manual?

That's probably your issue. In addition to caps, don't overlook that 40-yr-old logic gates on the S & S board can also cause weird things to happen...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-80-sometimes-a-random-continuous-sound-on-boot

Which quote?

You should get another tone, not skip to the end. Maybe the test button is dirty and registers twice/multiples?

You're exactly following the instructions on page 18?

EDIT: Failed to mention he has a Pascal all-in-one board.

You should have mentioned that first.

I thought the "all-in-one" included the sound board?

Otherwise, what part of page 18 or the flow-chart has you confused?

Must be in Game Over mode. Press button and get a tone. If it passes the RAM and EPROM tests, then if all the DIP switches are OFF, it will say "off". Otherwise, if all DIP switches are ON, it will say "on". If you press the test button on this step, then it's skipped and you will get another tone. Then turn OFF DIP switch 1 and proceed to the jumper tests in the box below.

I did that too. No regrets.

The law of supply & demand which is mostly driven by emotion. And although I love this hobby, prices seem to be really crazy.

Therefore, I would not consider that "cheap" for a 42-yr-old System 80 machine that is most likely in a condition where it's not fully reliable until every flaky connection and component is located and replaced. An enormous amount of work that you would "do it yourself", otherwise you're financially under water when complete.

When I recently searched for a Black Hole "project" machine, I came across people asking $2,000 - $3,000 for machines that needed a full rebuild, parts missing, hacked up wiring, or similar. The nice ones, supposedly "fully shopped", seem to be in $4,000 to $5,000 range.

I'm not sure what part of my other post led you to that conclusion. I made zero claims, aside from the accepted reality that 40-yr-old Gottlieb SS machines need some attention to be reliable.

"Cheap" is a completely subjective and relative term. What's cheap for one might be expensive for another. You may think $3,000 for an older machine that is going to need work is "cheap" and I may disagree. This is only my subjective opinion.

Aside from the market forces of "supply/demand", there are no rules to any of this, which was my only point. Some machines are hotter than others. Some prices go up over time and some come down. Older machines from the 50's, 60's and 70's are generally less expensive than machines from the 80's, which runs counter to age or rarity making things more valuable. Overall today, in my opinion, prices are nuts in general... but if they're in demand, lots of people want and are willing to pay, so prices go up.

At one point in history, beanie babies were worth thousands. Now most (not all) are pretty much worthless.

And these Gottlieb System 80 machines were a lot less expensive only a few years ago (for funzies, check out the old Pinside Market ads for Black Hole just 5 years ago). This may have to do with the various plug & play aftermarket boards that eliminate difficult/expensive board-level repairs?

I wasn't referring to a recent Pinside market search, but an actual quest where I talked to folks who sent me photos and a asking price. It was nuts considering that I was literally looking for a broken machine that needed a lot of work, so I was not expecting prices nearly as high as the so-called working machines.

You did not. No apologies required. I was just clarifying that supply & demand is governed by emotion (demand), so therefore, the "if this, then what about that?" are not fair comparisons.

And less... I missed a non-working BH in good condition for $600 last year in WI by only a couple of weeks... followed by one in not-so-good non-working dirty-basement condition in MN for $1000. I would have taken either/both had I been following FB Marketplace more closely.

Save, sell, or give away the old one. It's very easy to rebuild (rock solid once done) and some other hobbyist may want an original.