Black Hole -- one of the *best* Sys80s ever made...

Incredibly well-executed theme
Fantastic old-school speech synthesizer (Friends my age are waiting for him to say "You are space cadet" -- from Gorf)
Good sound effects
Possibly the best backglass show of all time -- up there with Mars God of War
Good PF light show
Two playfields in two different directions
Possibly the best 3-ball multi-ball ever designed, with ball travel in two opposite directions at once on two different levels. A total brain-warp to put it lightly.
Game has good counter-measures to prevent over-trapping of balls with flippers

I started up a Black Hole Club so that other proud Black Hole owners can share the over-the-top love for the machine as well as: repair help, restoration tips, part requests, requesting wiring photos, topper ideas, best LED usage, color matching tips, and upgrade ideas...

RESOURCES / IDEAS:
http://www.pbresource.com/Blackhole.html <-- parts
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pinball/916515-black-hole/faqs/1438
http://www.petesgameroom.net/black-hole-pinball-restoration/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190419151711/http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/blackhole.htm
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/home-for-the-gottlieb-sys1-sys-80b-guys-yep-i-guess-it-a-club
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-ni-wumpf-rule-adjustments

[x] add to your favorites (do this now!)

-mof

Now that I'm 20+ games into an unshopped dry-rubbered Black Hole with 1 dead pop, I have a few thoughts on the game play...

* The #1 drain is SDTM (feels like I have short flippers), I wish there was a center post for sure. So tempting to drop one in...
* The left drain is fun to try and save, you have a chance. Having the pop right there above it, is very evil. I like how Bally Viking does this as well. I wish the left drain had a starpost instead of the metal apron to give you more of a save chance once it drains.
* The pops can really drive the ball back at the flippers hard. The acrylic blue PF only makes this more dangerous. I like the sound of the ball skimming across it (mind you I have the glass off)
* I like watching the ball come down the spiral to the lower PF. I love playing that PF. I haven't mastered the lock shot yet. The advance multiplier off the tip is quite doable.
* I look forward to learning 3 positions on the skill shot. I've never owned a game where you can't change the 1-2-3 lane lights. This is how it should be in my opinion UNTIL the ball passes through them, then you should be allowed to change them (for the pop-hits)
* I had no idea the ball would fly so well out of that tube -- it really flies into the flippers. I will definitely add shopping that solenoid to my list to ensure the ball is max velocity coming out.
* I think it's astounding that it's only a 7-shot game on the upper PF, considering it's a wide-body. The lower PF itself has 5 shots. This gives it more shots than any game I own (12). (All my games have 7 through 12 shots -- I count banks as 1 shot). The game with the most shots I've ever counted is TZ with 18 shots.
* I think it's very odd that the right lane gate helps you once, then drains you if the ball is still in that area.
* Having no inlanes is great. Now we know where Space Station got the inspiration from.
* I find there's one shot that is either hard to hit, or not well used in the game, the right loop shot. I realize there's a 10K green insert in there that lights up, but I don't know that the ball ever got in that more than once in 20+ games.

I look forward to learning the rules. It's still a big mystery to me.

-mof

Has anyone done a motor upgrade?

-mof

Yes.

great vid! made me smile...
-mof

Isn't that gate standard in the game? I have one on mine, but I think its purpose is to prevent a ball rolling back into the tube.
-mof

ok you bent the W shape.
-mof

My motor works, but it's loud. I think I should swap it out of there.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Replacing_the_Black_Hole_.22Spinning_Disk.22_Motor
suggests the one from Servo City.
Do you have any motor suggestions ?
-mof

Another Gameplay question:

What is the goal of being in multiball regarding scoring?

thanks!
-mof

Wait are you saying goal of multiball is the 10 o'clock shot and get those balls downstairs?
-mof

Pssh, I've already gotten that on my machine, only I don't have that meaningless 3 on the left there to distract me...
-mof

1. 3-ball or 5-ball?
2. are there settings for making the "special" reward a free ball?

-mof

Backbox lighting !

What combinations have you tried, and where have you settled for your backbox lighting? Open her up and show us (let's see a lamp shot) and a dark-lighting shot.

(I'll post mine here later today, but for now it's in the 60-hour shop job thread)

-mof

Wow, let's a see a video of what you accomplished !?
-mof

Oh boy, so do we have consensus on this or not? Don't make me create a poll for 10 people to vote on... Let's hear from everyone...

Vote: 3-ball or 5-ball?
And explain why...

-mof

Ok, so is 3-ball is set with dip-switch 20 ?
-mof

Magnetized solenoid brackets.

Has anyone come up with a permanent solution for them?

Found a good discussion here
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/YlAIIRUP71M

-mof

I fear that center pop!
-mof

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-ni-wumpf-rule-adjustments

good stuff
-mof

Can you demonstrate a quick before/after with a photo? My flippers seem fine, but no idea if that's your "before" set up or not.
-mof

Where's the best place to purchase a .01" copper sheet to try out the Steve Young suggestion to prevent magnetized coil brackets?

I found this, but it's 2.5x thicker than what CNKay called for:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_364215-37672-884459_0__?productId=3478155&Ntt=copper+sheet&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dcopper%2Bsheet&facetInfo=

-mof

I think my "magnetization" issues may have been solved.

Some idiot must have worked on this machine and put back all the pop bumper assemblies incorrectly.

The scoring switches themselves were not installed back into position correctly.

I can't make this $hit up.

-mof

201401-BH-bad-swith-install.jpg

Trying out an easy game mod...

I decided to see how the game changes when the second one-way gate is FORCED OPEN. My goal was to allow enjoying the orbit more, as well as to create a real skill shot.

1) skill shot is either do or die. If you HARD plunge, it goes to the flippers (mostly a safe shot). If you soft plunge and miss, it drains, or sometimes you can slap-save. Very advanced. Like Whirlwind.

2) achieving the "extra ball" shot is now a big risk. This means you want to hit it with the best flipper to NOT make it a hard shot that may drain the ball on its way out.

3) Now that this shot has risk, it means fewer shots to increase multipliers. You now are more inclined to go straight up into the 1-2-3 lanes.

4) Now that the inner orbit is a risk shot, it's close to the Lower PF shot, and that adds risk, since you take that shot a lot.

I think there are pros and cons to it. I like that it's easy to turn it on and off with one rubber tool.

Try it, and let me know what you think. I like my games hard !
-mof

201401-BH-open-orbit-one-way-gate.jpg

Read the comments: this guy programmed his motor to spin at different speed baseds on the mode.

attract
upper PF
lower PF

WOW.

that's brilliant.
-mof

Hmmm... So when we were diagnosing the 5vdc issue with the capacitor, we unplugged everything and have now plugged everything back in, now I don't have:

Lower PF:
1. drop L reset
2. drop R reset
3. ball trough switch

I have:
ball return solenoid (pipe)
pop1
pop2
sling1
plastic-thing-sling2
flipperL
flipperR
saucer
horseshoe switch
all lights
drop target sounds

I checked out the fuses in 17-20 and they all seem good.

Any ideas or suggestions?

thanks,
mof

I have it narrowed down now. Drop banks are fine.

I believe the solenoid is failing to fire for switch 53. I think switch 53 is working, since after I click it, the game changes. I think the blue lights in the bottom no longer light, and I think the game is expecting the play to be over, and for the ball to return to the upper playfield.

I swapped out the solenoid for switch 53. I had planned to all along since it had no sleeve, and it was sloppy action. This didn't help.

Fuse 17 has popped, and I've had to replace it. That didn't make a difference.

I am looking for ideas on how to troubleshoot from here.

Tomorrow is 2/22, and I hope I am only minutes away from reaching my minimum goal, of having a fully playable Black Hole by 2/22...

-mof

Now I'm officially in the club: here's my high score for the evening. 5-ball

I got a multi-ball on my 15th game since getting the game working well. It was worth the wait. Such a brutally fast game. I feel like a cat watching a laser-light, I rarely know where the ball is... It makes me think this is what pinball is all about -- a very fast "shell game" where you shouldn't be too confident that you always know where the ball is, or will be in a few seconds...

Black Hole is the ultimate shell game. It wears you out and wins in the end.

201402-23-HS-400k.jpg

Black Hole -- a rant will be coming some day -- there is no safe place to hide, no safe "mode" to get into, no "breaks" to be caught.

I had one "lucky break" last night in about 15 games -- a ball flew hard into the lower-left drain, and bounced out, I almost cried tears of joy.

-mof

Getting closer to a real score...
-mof
20140302_012139.jpg

Hot on your tail, Steve -- 1.2mil !
-mof

rolled it on ball 5!
201403-BH-first-rollover-ever.jpg

201403-BH-1pt2mil.jpg

Steve,

I installed a blue light per your instructions for my tube. I love how it shines on your shoulder while playing... VERY eerie. It is good UI, cause it lets you know when you've accomplished the goal.

Questions:

1. Can you take a photo of where your bulb is placed?
2. I think a newer tube means thicker plastic, which means more reflective material for the blue... is this thinking correct? I feel like mine is more dim than yours.
3. Have you ever thought of putting in a red light when it's NOT open?

thanks!
-mof

Would red just be wired into the "other" yellow insert? Is one on, or the other? I forget the matrix.
-mof

nice ball. I had one like that last night, 700K first, then 10k, 10k, 10k, 10k and finished 740k. Hilarious.
-mof

Anyone got any tips on leveling the blue acrylic ? I have a pack of new grommets from Steve, I just tried adjusting one, and realize I don't get the secret...

thanks!
-mof

What game is more difficult than Black Hole?
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-toughest/page/2
Can you think of one?
-mof

Question: How do I set the replay score?

-mof

TYVM, do you by chance know what are considered stock values for 5-ball ?
-mof

I noticed my shooter is still sticking into the shooter lane a little bit by about 1/4", and I'd like it resting back farther (just so it's perfectly at rest when the ball is at rest in there.) Is my best option a longer shooter barrel spring, like a 1"? -- I wonder where to get one... I already threw a few washers on there to prevent the tip from scraping when the PF is raised...

thanks!
-mof

Want the tip back 1/4"
201403-BH-adjust the tip.jpg

Should I grab a longer barrel spring? From where?
201403-BH-longer barrel spring needed.jpg

What are factory settings for Black Hole in 5-ball mode?

I can't decide whether to include free balls at 300K 600K or leave them out.

On my Williams games, you just set it to "factory - easy/medium/hard" (I always do medium) settings, and it automatically sets the scores where they "should" be, and then you just put it on free play. Usually there are two replay scores at let's say... 1mil and 2mil depending on the game.

With this Black Hole, I'm not sure what "factory" was...

I realize I can do anything. But I'd like to put it in a common set of settings so that I can compete against other owners. (in 5-ball mode)

-mof

Sometimes less is more...
I recommend not using the 24v lamps at all, unless you really like a bright white box of light down there. I removed all of mine, and rely on the plastic GI, and imo looks MUCH better.
-mof

Are those supposed to be for the 4 standups upstairs?
Cushioning the front-side?
Ya, I don't get it. I thought the idea was make sure you have good cushion on the back-side.
-mof

Inspiring -- I can't wait to get back to my Black Hole after getting a few recent acquisitions into working order.

I've got the 7-digit displays from Todd and the eprom from Ed... Close...

-mof

You did it, champ!
I gotta do this too, how many hours did it take ya? Any advice to improve the instructions?
-mof

How have you guys dealt with the excessive wear underneath the pop bumpers?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/22#post-1829420
vid has an interesting suggestion. I'm trying to choose a color.
-mof

It would be HELLA cool to have decals that cover the areas of wear EXACTLY under where the old non-stick mylar patches used to be, then decal and re-cover 'em with sticky mylar...

-mof

Wow, you look to be double lucky in this case... congrats!
-mof

I've only rolled it a few times, but it kills me that those few times are not recorded in the displays for all (and ME) to see.

-mof

Brilliant Idea.
(can they do Gottlieb titles?)
They'll store credit you to more than cover your shipping cost.
Their return packing is top notch.
-mof

1. The COST of your time and removing all the top-side parts to anyone wanting a NOS PF
is MUCH lower than the gain of
2. 100 BH owners having a CPR clear coated set of BH PFs. I mean. That would be a miracle to ~100 people.

I bet you could use a crowdsourced program like kickstarter to get 50 BH owners to pitch in $10, to cover your time, and when it reaches $500 you get paid to do it RIGHT (molex the drop targets out), and get the top side cleared of all posts/targets, then just leave the harness and switches attached underneath and pack/ship it. Reverse when it comes back, and now you've saved the entire BH community from playfield wear.

I'm asking Stu if they can do that title/have any interest...

-mof

Thanks for clarifying that.
-mof

Great question.
Mof

Put up a big one for my friend @blownfuse... I tried to roll it.
I'm sure he gave some quiet pointers while I was playing...
-mof
20180331_875k-Miss-you-Steve2 (resized).png

Yeah, he already did, so I got a box of displays tucked away... Someday...
-mof

Quick rules question: What are the main goals while in multi-ball? I don't see 3x-scoring inserts on the playfield -- is there any scoring benefit to being in multi-ball mode?

-mof

WTF