Redondo Beach, CA
Quoted from topkat:does this sling give any points. Mine kicks but doesn’t give me nada?
[quoted image]
I just checked mine. It scores zero points.
(Topic ID: 77057)
Linked Games
Black Hole
Gottlieb, 1981
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Quoted from topkat:What do you think of leds in the infinity lights ( the ones around the edge). I was told it makes a bad reflection on playfield?
I have alternating blue and white LEDs in mine. I think it looks great. All blue seems over powering.
Quoted from topkat:Does it give you any issues with the reflection off glass? Are they frosted ?
Thanks
My LEDs are Ablaze 1 flat tops non frosted from Pinball Life. I think everything will reflect on the playfield glass but that is part of the charm. It is personal preference. As is, I only have LEDs in the infinity lights and a few choice controlled sockets. All my general illumination is old school incandescent. It only costs a few bucks to try it out. Give it a shot and see if you like it.
Quoted from pacman11:No I didn’t see any holes, maybe it’s upside down I’ll check later. Anyone have a pictures of this gate and how it attaches? Thanks!
As requested.
20180821_193251 (resized).jpg 4 weeks later
Pulling Mylar is always challenging on old games. It comes down to personal preference I think. On an old game like your Black Hole I prefer the slow and very messy Goo Gone method. I feel it is less violent. I did a Caveman that way recently and didn’t have any issue with pulling paint.
1 week later
Quoted from Mudflaps:Lit up the flipper buttons and start button using Comet matrix wires and Zitt’s clear button housing. Turned out great!
[quoted image]
I have to say that is pretty cool.
5 months later
Quoted from Lemank:Does anybody have a spinning disk motor? Mine is starting to make some noise and I’m not sure how long it will hold up. Thanks in advance!
The OEM motor sucks. The aftermarket one is actually much better. I believe there is pinsider that sells the part you need. If not, you can score one on ebay.
9 months later
Quoted from iBuyHouses:I apologize if this is a stupid question but is it possible to spray the connectors with silicone to help prevent them from getting damaged?
Yes, it is a bad idea. You don’t want to spray anything on them that coats including contact cleaner. High percentage alcohol is the best and makes sure it dries before putting it back on. The idea is to get a nice shinny metal connection.
By the way, you do need new pins. Looks like they lost all of their tension. The funny thing about ground mods is they aren’t needed for the most part. Gottliebs ground through the wire harness. Bad pins means bad grounds and that’s why everybody does the ground mods.
Their pins aren’t 100% so they are grounding using an alternate path.
1 year later
Quoted from frenchmarky:Guess I gotta be a little more careful when trying to pull a sticky dirty worn-out sleeve out of a flipper coil. First time for everything. C-C-CRACK!
[quoted image]
I wouldn't be that upset. It if was that stuck the coil was likely shot anyway.
1 month later
Quoted from sly:Is that it???[quoted image]
That is a memory capacitor which is actually a pretty good battery replacement if installed correctly. You do need to operate the game monthly to maintain it's charge. If not, the game acts like it has had a battery failure. High scores and credits will be lost.
2 weeks later
Quoted from radial_head:First double roll. DAMN I love this game.
[quoted image]
Both Black Hole and Haunted House should’ve had 7 digit displays. 
Quoted from topkat:Can someone point where to look. Everything had been working 100%. Started a game and it made start noise twice. I assumed I hit two credits but I hadn’t. There was no longer any background sound and most of of switches are now playing the wrong sounds. For example the spinner says fail fail, but it score correctly. I have a niwumpf mpu.. strange out of the blue..or black I guess
Mostly likely the pins are shot on the wire harness that connects to the bottom of the MPU board. I would start there.
271D3369-91D4-4FFC-9C15-793DDFFF8284 (resized).jpeg 3 weeks later
Quoted from twinmice:Just picked one up that had been in a home for the last 38 years. Problem is when I turn it on, it boots but have all 00000s in the displays (the zero's are there, the pic didn't catch them), won't take a credit or put the balls in the trough, no coil power. Any ideas where I can start? Im not very familiar with Gottlieb's. Thanks Mike Paris
[quoted image]
That is the slam switch. Jumper it closed and things should work. I see this is your first Gottlieb. If this were a Bally that switch would be open. Gottlieb did the exact opposite a lot of the time. 
Quoted from twinmice:Thanks guys, got it up and running, it was the slam switch. Game works great, the only problem I'm having is I have voice and gameplay sounds, but no background sound. I have read through a ton of posts, reseated all connectors, pulled and resat the sound board chips, tried all the dips switch settings (hopefully did them right) and nothing? Any ideas? anyone have a pic of their dip switch settings on the sound board and driver board? Thanks Mike
Edge connectors are awful. Remove the cables on the bottom of the MPU and take a picture of the pins to share with the group. Don’t worry about the MPU to Driver board cable at this time. That is a different beast altogether. Just worry about the two cables to the left of it. My guess is the pins are shot. If it isn’t that, something has died on the sound card (most likely capacitors).
Quoted from twinmice:Thanks guys, got it up and running, it was the slam switch. Game works great, the only problem I'm having is I have voice and gameplay sounds, but no background sound. I have read through a ton of posts, reseated all connectors, pulled and resat the sound board chips, tried all the dips switch settings (hopefully did them right) and nothing? Any ideas? anyone have a pic of their dip switch settings on the sound board and driver board? Thanks Mike
Also tone out your dip switches. Gottliebs are famous for failure. Just make sure on is really on and off is really off. You do that by pulling out the board and toning out the solder pads for the switches.
Quoted from Nevus:Anyone know a vendor that stocks the black hole play field glass?
I didn’t see it at PBL or Marco.
48-3/8 X 24-5/8 inches, 3/16 inch
Just order a sheet at your local glass shop. Just remember to get it tempered and not stamped.
1 week later
Quoted from Timmo:Help! I just finished bringing my Black Hole back from the dead, but I’m left with one nagging issue.
The game powers up into attract mode with no problem, but when I press the button to start a game it just restarts and goes back into attract mode. The reset happens right after resetting the 4-target (HOLE) bank and before resetting the 5-target (BLACK) bank. If I leave the game “warm-up” for 3-5 minutes it works fine.
I can also get it to work if I disconnect the ground wire to Solenoid 2 (the 5-target bank) at A3J4-10, or if I disconnect the sound/speech board.
All the self-tests run fine. I have re-pinned every board edge connector and the molex plug connecting the 5-target bank. I have replaced all the electrolytic caps on all the boards. Thinking I must have a flaky chip somewhere in the Solenoid 2 circuitry I started working my way back and ended up replacing every transistor and IC in the circuit back to and including the RIOT chip at U6. I also replaced the diodes on all four drop-target coils for good measure. I don’t have another sound/speech board to swap out to see if it’s the culprit.
The CPU did have some battery damage which I was able to repair with minimal component replacement and without losing any traces. Ground mods were also done.
Does anyone here have any ideas? I’ve searched Pinside and the rest of the web, but I can’t find any discussion of this issue. Thanks in advance.
(I have also cross-posted this on the SYS80 thread)
Did you also replace the filter capacitors in the bottom of the cabinet?
Quoted from Timmo:Thanks. I should have mentioned that.
I did replace the orange filter cap with the recommended 10,000uf 25v replacement. I also rebuilt the power supply using the recommenced modifications in Clay's guide (except I did not replace the trim pot or the regulator chip). J1, J2, and J3 were all upgraded to square pins and Trifurcon connectors.
Well it sounds like a heat issue. I would focus on the power supply and driver board. Those two have the most drastic heat change during operation. Your weak component is likely something on those two boards. What you really need is a second System 80. That makes troubleshooting a snap.
Quoted from radial_head:Looking at some photos I have on hand from mine when I picked it up, they do seem to be correct. When you say "set to free play" what method have you used to do so?
My thought as well. No true free play on OEM System 80 boards.
Quoted from Bospins:thanks...LISY threads are super quiet...maybe I just haven't found the right one yet
I’m pretty good with OEM Gottlieb stuff. Inserting the aftermarket board pretty much takes me out of the game. The LISY board seems to have a very simplistic design. Maybe the kill switch on the door or playfield is still an issue. Have you tried to jumped them closed. OEM boards won’t start a game if those two switches are open.
Quoted from Bospins:What kill switch? say more!
On the coin door there is a slam switch. Gottlieb’s need to be closed while others do open. Jumper that closed and see if that helps.
1 month later
They are easy to fix and widely available aftermarket. Here is one on eBay.
ebay.com link: NEW Pop Bumper Board for Gottlieb System 80 games MA992 A19741
2 months later
I agree with the oven method. If you have a large teflon cookie sheet preheat oven to 200 degrees. Place plastic silkscreen side up and pop it in the oven on the cookie sheet. Watch it through the window. When it lays down flat it is done. It should not take more than 10 minutes. Let it cool between a couple large books or glass. Anything smooth will work.
6 months later
Quoted from frenchmarky:The pinwiki mod of changing the 313 lamps to 44s or 47s seems like bunk to me as written. “313s are slightly brighter than 44s”? I looked at a chart and they have nearly *4X* the candlepower and wattage of a 44 and *7X* that of a 47. They needed 313s with that tinted pf window and the lower pf down there in the dark, that’s why Gottlieb used them. Seems to me one would HAVE to use brighter LEDs otherwise it’s a factory downgrade. Now if you put LEDs in there that are *brighter* than 313s, then it makes sense.
Doing that tweak makes no sense to me either. I was able to track down 28vdc LED bulbs and very pleased with the results.
Quoted from Deepblue89:New Black Hole owner here. Love the game. Got one in great condition from a seller here on Pinside.
Question: Where is switch 17 to change the game from five ball to three ball? I am still new to pinball ownership and don’t know where to find these switches. The manual isn’t very helpful either. All I see is this.[quoted image]
It is on the mpu.
10 months later
Quoted from ThePinScientist:Is there anyone here that is able to scan their inner backglass for me? I’d like to create a translight for mine. My inner backglass is shot.
Or if there is anyone that has the ability to make one for me, let me know! Or if you have an extra backglass laying around I could buy.
Coos has them for sale.
Quoted from sparky672:Are they really for sale? FWIW, I checked the Coos website and it has Black Hole, but it says:
Reach out to him.
11 months later
So, did Shay make both an inner and outer backglass? I know they made the outer, but it also appears they did the inner. Does anybody have one the inner one? If so, how does it look?
Quoted from Orbian:Shay made the inner backglass I have one. It was sent to me directly from Shay. The registration is terrible. You can't see it until it's lighted from behind.
This was brought to his attention.
The white mask on the back is not registered with the rest of the artwork and looks terrible when lit up.
The mirroring looks good. The blue filters over the displays is lighter and looks washed out compared to an original.
If you were missing the glass or have a badly peeling glass, It's better than nothing. I chose to keep my original.
Thanks for the info. Looks like Coos is the place to get an inner backglass from.
3 weeks later
Quoted from splickety_lit:I'm having an issue with the set of 4 yellow drop targets on the lower playfield, they are not resetting. Here is what I've done so far:
1. Did the ground updates for the MPU/Driver board interconnect harness
2. Ensured the coil is good.
3. Traced the continuity from A1-J4 all the way to the solenoid, all good there.
4. Replaced the Q62 transistor.
5. Replaced the Q61 transistor with the unused Q54 transistor.
6. Ensured Z28 and Z30 are getting the correct voltage.
7. Used a logic probe on Z30 to ensure the reset signal is being sent out when appropriate, it is.
8. When pulling Q62 to ground by touching a wire from ground to the case, the target bank resets.
I tried directly testing the MPS-U45 transistor with a DMM diode check following the directions on Pinwiki, but every single MPS-U45 I tried on the board had no reading between the base and the emitter. Other than these drop targets, all the lamps/solenoids are working great. So obviously I'm testing them incorrectly or Pinwiki is wrong about how to test them, which is doubtful.
I'm at a loss of what to do next. I ordered some CEN-U45s to try a brand new one at Q61. Any suggestions of what else to try?
How are the pins on the harness between the MPU and driver board? They likely need replaced if they are original.
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