(Topic ID: 77057)

Black Hole Club... Members Only!

By mof

10 years ago


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  • 3,353 posts
  • 303 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by CNKay
  • Topic is favorited by 141 Pinsiders

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#3301 48 days ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

Has anyone done a 7 digit conversion? I'm not sure what options there are, I'm using a Pascal all in one

Yep followed the Steve charland directions from long ago. Pascal probably has directions somewhere and pretty sure he has the recreated software in his board to support it. (I'm using modified original roms on an original mpu)

#3302 44 days ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

Has anyone done a 7 digit conversion? I'm not sure what options there are, I'm using a Pascal all in one

I have done it.
See Davroux brothers, flipprojets
But I am all original boards

#3303 43 days ago

Very excited to have joined the club last month. It’s been my dream to own this game since I was a kid.

Everything has been great - previous owner did an awesome job with maintenance and went above and beyond to help me get it set up. If you see this… Thanks, Adam! Diana and I really appreciate everything you did to help us get us an awesome table

I’m having one small issue after putting it through a few dozen plays, and I’m curious if anybody else knows a fix. Every time I hit one of the “BLACK-HOLE” drop targets with moderate force, I get an airball that smacks the glass. Anybody wise to this?

Anyway - excited to be part of this club for a long time to come! Cheers

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#3304 43 days ago

I have had this issue on more than one pinball. My solution is to add two small washers under the drop target assembly upper mounts. This results in the targets leaning forward a slight amount.

#3305 42 days ago
Quoted from RedUnicorn:

Very excited to have joined the club last month. It’s been my dream to own this game since I was a kid.
Everything has been great - previous owner did an awesome job with maintenance and went above and beyond to help me get it set up. If you see this… Thanks, Adam! Diana and I really appreciate everything you did to help us get us an awesome table
I’m having one small issue after putting it through a few dozen plays, and I’m curious if anybody else knows a fix. Every time I hit one of the “BLACK-HOLE” drop targets with moderate force, I get an airball that smacks the glass. Anybody wise to this?
Anyway - excited to be part of this club for a long time to come! Cheers
[quoted image]

What a stunner of a game, I am jealous (hope to add a BH to the collection someday, definitely was my favorite pin as a kid). Congrats!

#3306 42 days ago

What angle do you have it set at?

Are all of the flipper coils correct? I've never had this problem on my game and it is well-tuned and clean. If it did do that it would have driven me crazy years ago. I know that if the tube kicker is too strong it can hit the glass upon exit. On mine I do get glass hits once in a while if the ball is really flying down fast and I make an on-the-fly flipper shot, it can hit the glass as it's being flipped. But to me that's 'normal' given how fast the ball can move on this game + getting flipped in the opposite direction.

2 weeks later
#3307 28 days ago

My Black Hole has begun doing an odd thing where the right flippers on the upper playfield will stay up sometimes. It isn't consistent, I can play several games and it never happens, then all of a sudden, it starts happening frequently. They are not mechanically binding. When I try to put them down manually, I can feel the coil pushing back against my hand. Also, if I power off the game when they are stuck up, they go back down on their own.

I've checked the cabinet button switches the contacts are clean and have a good gap when not activated. The mechs are free moving when operated by hand and the EOS switch has a good gap when activated.

This problem isn't easily replicated, it seems to happen at random. What else should be looking at? I'm not sure if this matters or not, but is isn't running the original MPU, power, or driver board because it has a Flippp PI-80 board in it.

Thanks - Ryan

#3308 28 days ago
Quoted from rrss:

My Black Hole has begun doing an odd thing where the right flippers on the upper playfield will stay up sometimes. It isn't consistent, I can play several games and it never happens, then all of a sudden, it starts happening frequently. They are not mechanically binding. When I try to put them down manually, I can feel the coil pushing back against my hand. Also, if I power off the game when they are stuck up, they go back down on their own.
I've checked the cabinet button switches the contacts are clean and have a good gap when not activated. The mechs are free moving when operated by hand and the EOS switch has a good gap when activated.
This problem isn't easily replicated, it seems to happen at random. What else should be looking at? I'm not sure if this matters or not, but is isn't running the original MPU, power, or driver board because it has a Flippp PI-80 board in it.
Thanks - Ryan

I have run into this with the flippers and also the pop bumpers. Ended up being magnetized coil stops and plungers. Replaced them and all good.

#3309 27 days ago

I'm trying one of those fast-blink white LEDs under the yellow 'gate is open' arrow (with a few layers of yellow cellophane snips stuck on top of the LED to dial it down for that insert.) I think the flashing much more easily and effectively calls to your attention the fact that the gate is indeed open AND it will now flash in attract, especially good if you did the 'no gate clicking' mod like I did since then this arrow will just stay 'on' solid in attract instead of being flashed on & off by the relay. So far I like it.

#3310 27 days ago
Quoted from rrss:

My Black Hole has begun doing an odd thing where the right flippers on the upper playfield will stay up sometimes. It isn't consistent, I can play several games and it never happens, then all of a sudden, it starts happening frequently. They are not mechanically binding. When I try to put them down manually, I can feel the coil pushing back against my hand. Also, if I power off the game when they are stuck up, they go back down on their own.
I've checked the cabinet button switches the contacts are clean and have a good gap when not activated. The mechs are free moving when operated by hand and the EOS switch has a good gap when activated.
This problem isn't easily replicated, it seems to happen at random. What else should be looking at? I'm not sure if this matters or not, but is isn't running the original MPU, power, or driver board because it has a Flippp PI-80 board in it.
Thanks - Ryan

I think I figured it out, it was a bad flipper switch. I could see there was a gap at the contacts when the flippers would be stuck in the up position, but I'd I tapped the switch with the handle of a screw driver and they would de-energize and go back down. Maybe one of the screws wore through the insulated bushing inside the switch, allowing the screw to contact both blades inside the stack? I had a new high current flipper switch in my spare parts boxes and put it in last night. The problem hasn't happened since.

#3311 27 days ago

Sometimes metal filings land on the switch and conduct enough for it to engage. You could tell right away on your old stack if it were an internal screw shorting it out by taking the switch tubing out and see if there's any break in them.

1 week later
#3312 18 days ago

I added one more GI light, a 1X warm LED under the lock saucer plastic. But I didn't like how the rear of the saucer stop bracket and its screw heads etc. back there were now all lit up. So I cut out a little crescent of black tape and applied it under the plastic so you can't see past the top of the bracket. Now it has the same look as before except of course the plastic is lit.

This light is not a huge effect but it does balance out the left side. I can understand why they didn't bother especially since that is a cramped area for adding another light socket. I just hardwired the LED and ran the wires up there.

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#3313 18 days ago

I just joined this sordid club, sort of! Got a decent player that needs work; lower kickout isn’t kicking, inner glass sunk and some playfield scratches resulting. This thing was daunting to move and even get the legs on! I just like the style; completely different than anything I’ve got or played. Really looking forward to making it look good and play well.

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#3314 18 days ago
Quoted from Worstpinballer:

I just joined this sordid club, sort of! Got a decent player that needs work; lower kickout isn’t kicking, inner glass sunk and some playfield scratches resulting. This thing was daunting to move and even get the legs on! I just like the style; completely different than anything I’ve got or played. Really looking forward to making it look good and play well.
[quoted image]

Can't wait to see the end results. Black Hole is so much fun.

#3315 18 days ago
Quoted from Worstpinballer:

I just joined this sordid club, sort of!

Congrats, and welcome! Black Hole really is a unique pin, probably one of the coolest-looking pins in existence. It's one of my buddies favorite games, we always get some good matches on it. Just wait till you get to experience the mind-bending multiball (not to mention the challenge of getting there in the first place, lol)

Good luck, and keep us posted

#3316 18 days ago

FYI: just made more Motor adapters for those that have broken/worn out original motors. These adapters are made for the Grainger motors. See Pics.

Ken

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#3317 18 days ago

Remember folks original motors run at 6.5 rpm

#3318 18 days ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Remember folks original motors run at 6.5 rpm

Dayton sells other RPM motors, this specific speed was chosen and tested years and years ago and had the best appearance. Since their is really no load, it may spin a tad faster, like 1.6rpm's. I know they sell a 4.5 RPM gearmotor, an 8.8RPM. The sky is your limit.

#3319 17 days ago

Thanks gang. It has a pascal board installed and wiring looks good. I’m seeing fresh caps installed. The lower kickout needs a transistor I gather. It’s….dirty. But I think it’ll clean up well. I’ve yet to pop the glass and check everything out before firing it up after the move. Hehe. The motor has been disconnected for noise.

It’s such a cool looker and I really enjoyed my brief play even without the lower playfield working and all sorts of unevenness. I can’t put my finger on what makes it special to me; a sum of many small things? Cool theme and back glass, the black hole shot all by itself up on the left- thats crazy! The backwards basement, and six flippers on a beast of a wide body that seems quick if set up for it.

Many thanks again, all and I’ll keep you all posted on the progress!

#3320 17 days ago
Quoted from Worstpinballer:

Thanks gang. It has a pascal board installed and wiring looks good. I’m seeing fresh caps installed. The lower kickout needs a transistor I gather. It’s….dirty. But I think it’ll clean up well. I’ve yet to pop the glass and check everything out before firing it up after the move. Hehe. The motor has been disconnected for noise.
It’s such a cool looker and I really enjoyed my brief play even without the lower playfield working and all sorts of unevenness. I can’t put my finger on what makes it special to me; a sum of many small things? Cool theme and back glass, the black hole shot all by itself up on the left- thats crazy! The backwards basement, and six flippers on a beast of a wide body that seems quick if set up for it.
Many thanks again, all and I’ll keep you all posted on the progress!

Wait until you are playing on both the main playfield and the basement at the same time. The game is a blast for sure.

#3321 16 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Wait until you are playing on both the main playfield and the basement at the same time. The game is a blast for sure.

Oh man! I can’t wait to just get the game works mostly 100% with that basement kick up back in action. Even just flipping and capturing up too felt great. This is a neat game-it can only get better from here! Or more frustrating! Let’s hope for the former!

I just want it clean and playing nice, not going to go BIG with a new playfield. I’ll clean it up and make it operate correctly and with consistency. Make it look very nice but not worried about a blemish here or there.

Then maybe change the glass and repaint the cabinet. My goal being a more than decent looking machine but not TOO much $$$ dumped into it. It’s got good bones, me thinks.

I will be sure to keep you all updated on the progress. Hopefully I’ll be able to spread some knowledge and fixes for it!

Thanks again friends. I really appreciate all your help and positive messages!
-jeff

#3322 16 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Dayton sells other RPM motors, this specific speed was chosen and tested years and years ago and had the best appearance. Since their is really no load, it may spin a tad faster, like 1.6rpm's. I know they sell a 4.5 RPM gearmotor, an 8.8RPM. The sky is your limit.

1.5 or 2 are perfect. I saw one on youtube that was running around 6 RPM and it looked ridiculous and sounded worse. The disc is supposed to be rotating, not spinning.

#3323 16 days ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:1.5 or 2 are perfect. I saw one on youtube that was running around 6 RPM and it looked ridiculous and sounded worse. The disc is supposed to be rotating, not spinning.

I stated what original speed is , so it is supposed to be spinning. Tell yourself whatever you want to if you like it slower fine. You must be one of the guys that has motor rotating all the time.

#3324 16 days ago
Quoted from CNKay:

I stated what original speed is , so it is supposed to be spinning. Tell yourself whatever you want to if you like it slower fine. You must be one of the guys that has motor rotating all the time.

I'm one of those guys. I replaced the original motor which still worked but was very noisy. And the game is in my house, it's not turned on and played 12 hours a day in a location. Given this environment I'm not killing one of the best attract features ever because I'm worried about that motor.

#3325 16 days ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

I'm one of those guys. I replaced the original motor which still worked but was very noisy. And the game is in my house, it's not turned on and played 12 hours a day in a location. Given this environment I'm not killing one of the best attract features ever because I'm worried about that motor.

Preach brother!

#3326 16 days ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:I'm one of those guys. I replaced the original motor which still worked but was very noisy. And the game is in my house, it's not turned on and played 12 hours a day in a location. Given this environment I'm not killing one of the best attract features ever because I'm worried about that motor.

Well if its that slow you already killed the feature

#3327 16 days ago

Says the guy selling something.

Been here 14yrs
and RGP before that , i must have missed that proven tested meeting.

No wonder i rarely visit pinside these days. I miss steve!

#3328 16 days ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Says the guy selling something.
Been here 14yrs
and RGP before that , i must have missed that proven tested meeting.
No wonder i rarely visit pinside these days. I miss steve!

What? I sold these on RGP and was a friend of Steve and collaborated with him, so not sure what you are implying. I just help people. Keep me out of your negativity.

#3329 16 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Keep me out of your negativity.

Preach brother? Sure sounds like your picking a side and egging on something to me.

Remember original is 6.5 , help people with the correct info , mr toxic

#3330 16 days ago

Is that 6.5 at the disc after the gearing or the motor itself is 6.5?
I changed mine years ago to whatever Pinrepair was using and it spins nice but I never counted the rpm. I considered doing the only move in game but eh it's on at most six hours for a party .

#3331 16 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Is that 6.5 at the disc after the gearing or the motor itself is 6.5?
I changed mine years ago to whatever Pinrepair was using and it spins nice but I never counted the rpm. I considered doing the only move in game but eh it's on at most six hours for a party .

Here's the video I saw...

I replaced my motor probably 20 years ago and yes, the new one definitely did/does spin slower vs. the original. But man I just don't remember my original going THIS fast, the vid times out to around 6 rpm. Maybe mine did, but now I'm used to the slower speed. But either way, now I'm sold on slower.

**Oh wait a sec, is the one in the vid actually going about 10 to 12 rpm? Yikes

#3332 16 days ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

Here's the video I saw...
I replaced my motor probably 20 years ago and yes, the new one definitely did/does spin slower vs. the original. But man I just don't remember my original going THIS fast, the vid times out to around 6 rpm. Maybe mine did, but now I'm used to the slower speed. But either way, now I'm sold on slower.

1.5RPM looks great. I tested several speeds and the faster ones looked odd IMO. If someone wants to be accurate, now the info has been provided. I remember posting on RGP and having a website for my Black Hole adapters. I helped alot of people 20+ years ago.

I was rebuilding circuit boards(pop bumber boards w/the Steve Charland improvement) before they were public.

Those were good times. Steve is missed.

#3333 16 days ago

I remember fixing the original with gears sent to me from peter hall. Then after seeing and hearing how cheap that motor was i knew it needed something better as well. Spinning disc count was 6.3-6.5

Doing the power to motor on only with game on is nice , on location your paying for the show and saving the motor. However with the more industrial replacements with steel gears likely never a problem again. Leaving games on for days at a time at home is how my parties end up so, its nice.
Johns jukes site had nice easy instructions for that.

I tried 1.5 and 3? Dont remember now but i stuck with as close to 6.5 as i could. Im definately went through a couple motors. Dont think it is a dayton looks kinda large?

Not trying to fight with red its nice he makes the adapters as most other motors will not have shaft size the same. The last one i got from friend testing his 3D printer in darkish blue.

Dont take your coupler to a hardware store to have it sized, i payed to have mine butchered. If its wobbly or not true it will look funny.

Im getting older and lazy to type, so brief statements may come off wrong. For that i am sorry.

#3334 16 days ago
Quoted from CNKay:

I remember fixing the original with gears sent to me from peter hall. Then after seeing and hearing how cheap that motor was i knew it needed something better as well. Spinning disc count was 6.3-6.5
Doing the power to motor on only with game on is nice , on location your paying for the show and saving the motor. However with the more industrial replacements with steel gears likely never a problem again. Leaving games on for days at a time at home is how my parties end up so, its nice.
Johns jukes site had nice easy instructions for that.
I tried 1.5 and 3? Dont remember now but i stuck with as close to 6.5 as i could. Im definately went through a couple motors. Dont think it is a dayton looks kinda large?
Not trying to fight with red its nice he makes the adapters as most other motors will not have shaft size the same. The last one i got from friend testing his 3D printer in darkish blue.
Dont take your coupler to a hardware store to have it sized, i payed to have mine butchered. If its wobbly or not true it will look funny.
Im getting older and lazy to type, so brief statements may come off wrong. For that i am sorry.

I'm good, I am a happy guy, light hearted and definitely appreciate the information. If we can get the best and accurate information out here, I am all for it. I just used the info at the time I made the adapter(20+ yrs ago). Now we adjust.

I am in the process of 3D printing these adapters to see how they will turn out. More to come on this. I want to 3D print a helper bracket for the Dayton gearmotor, sorta like a template to help align with the hole so it will be a super simple installation. Just have to find some time over the summer.

#3335 16 days ago

Black holes actually rotate at incredible speeds approaching the speed of light. I wonder if I can fit a Dremel motor in there...

#3336 16 days ago

I've been seeing people argue over the speed and direction of this motor for over 20 years now, and I've come to the conclusion that you should just make it go the speed that makes you happy.

I originally put a 1rpm ccw motor in and really was not happy with it (too slow... you really had to look at it to see it was moving), I upped it to 3rpm ccw and absolutely love it.

My father, who also owned a Black Hole hated how slow his originally spun, so he put something like a 16 rpm cw motor in there.... I hated it, but he loved it.

#3337 16 days ago

ccw vs cw is the big debate

#3338 15 days ago

Did Spirit use the same motor?

#3339 15 days ago

I dont believe its same but not sure

#3340 15 days ago

There's another BH youtube vid where the title specifically says 1 RPM, but if you watch it it's actually only going 1/2 RPM. That's definitely the slowest I've seen.

#3341 15 days ago

Personally, I always believed that is was around a 6 RPM motor that was rated for 24v. It was hooked up at 12v which made it trun at about 3RPM. 6RPM does look odd to me. I just don't remember it turning that fast back in the day.

#3342 15 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Personally, I always believed that is was around a 6 RPM motor that was rated for 24v. It was hooked up at 12v which made it trun at about 3RPM. 6RPM does look odd to me. I just don't remember it turning that fast back in the day.

The motor was wired to 6v DC, so maybe the original was rated to run on up to 12v? I just noticed my ServoCity replacement is labeled '2 RPM' but has always run only 1 RPM.
Pinwiki states that 1.5 RPM from a new motor "looks good and matches the OEM motor speed closely". (?)

#3343 13 days ago

With all the discussion about BH's disc speed, I decided to try running my ServoCity 2 RPM motor on 8VDC instead of the factory-wired 6VDC (where it's been turning at 1 RPM). The 8V available at the power supply board is actually close to 9V so I got a 50% boost to 1.5 RPM, but I'm still running 3v under the motor's max rating.

#3344 12 days ago

My new to me BH is a bit jacked up. I can’t get one leg bolt in for some reason; looks aligned…
The bottom playfield is dead; balls go in the black hole and drain. I know the kick up needs a transistor and maybe coil. I am able to kind of play it by blocking the lower playfield entrance. I still enjoyed it! I’m seeing what looks to be many new or rebuilt parts and rubbers. A switch must be stuck somewhere cuz it just drones on and on for the most part with this laser shooter sound.

Oh and I got a little jolt from grabbing the coin door at one point; maybe I should put the ground pin back on! I’ve yet to pull the glass, I think the whole game is kinda tweaked from my uneven basement floor. Oh and the spinning disk works but loudly. It def needs the blue window spacers too. That’s all for now folks! Looks like this is gonna be a good one when I get it working!

#3345 12 days ago
Quoted from Worstpinballer:

My new to me BH is a bit jacked up. I can’t get one leg bolt in for some reason; looks aligned…
The bottom playfield is dead; balls go in the black hole and drain. I know the kick up needs a transistor and maybe coil. I am able to kind of play it by blocking the lower playfield entrance. I still enjoyed it! I’m seeing what looks to be many new or rebuilt parts and rubbers. A switch must be stuck somewhere cuz it just drones on and on for the most part with this laser shooter sound.
Oh and I got a little jolt from grabbing the coin door at one point; maybe I should put the ground pin back on! I’ve yet to pull the glass, I think the whole game is kinda tweaked from my uneven basement floor. Oh and the spinning disk works but loudly. It def needs the blue window spacers too. That’s all for now folks! Looks like this is gonna be a good one when I get it working!

When I get games I use a voltmeter on AC to check for voltage between the lock bar on each machine. If you are missing a ground pin you can see 60V. Worse if someone put in a replacement cord and reversed the hot/neutral. Definitely make sure the game is properly grounded.

For the other issues it will help if you post pictures of the boards in your machine and then images of anything that doesn't look correct. There are tons of reference photos in this thread (view image gallery) that may help.

#3346 12 days ago

That’s a smart practice. I’ll def get the obvious stuff like this sorted asap- I stuck my head in there to look at the mounting bolts earlier. Should know better; I am a moron! I really need to go through the machine before I post any other questions but wanted to share some fun new game stuff. I’m a pretty competent electro mechanical tech but very new to pinball. I appreciate your patience here! I feel like the game is kinda I got but witty good bones as they say. I hope there’s not something bad hidden with that lower PF. I should reiterate it has a pascal board installed and I see no errors on the leds there. I’ll try to be smarter in my posts about this game.

#3347 12 days ago
Quoted from Worstpinballer:

That’s a smart practice. I’ll def get the obvious stuff like this sorted asap- I stuck my head in there to look at the mounting bolts earlier. Should know better; I am a moron! I really need to go through the machine before I post any other questions but wanted to share some fun new game stuff. I’m a pretty competent electro mechanical tech but very new to pinball. I appreciate your patience here! I feel like the game is kinda I got but witty good bones as they say. I hope there’s not something bad hidden with that lower PF. I should reiterate it has a pascal board installed and I see no errors on the leds there. I’ll try to be smarter in my posts about this game.

Black hole is a great game. Also read the Gottlieb System 80 section of Pinwiki.com

Check all the pop bumper board to make sure they are updated. Some aren't. Once you go through it the game plays great.

#3348 10 days ago

Hey, our arcade has a Black Hole and I was wondering if this is totally normal?

It's basically moving the right outlane port on and off all the time while in attract mode. The machine has a Pascal board installed, so that might also have something to do with it? It stops when you start a game.

#3349 10 days ago

Yes that is the original behavior.

#3350 10 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Yes that is the original behavior.

Okay, that's very peculiar. Why does it do that?

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