Here, are the schematics to help with your missing ball gate assembly.

image0 (1) (resized).jpeg

Does anybody in here have an extra inner backglass? I could really use one. Please let me know. Thanks!

I have a back box, inner and outer glass for 400 pick up only in Sandy Hook, CT

Updates:

The plot (& the wiring) thickens:

Yes, I get that speech even when it doesn't kick the ball out.
Two power transistors? Heehee. See below.

Indeed. Rather different...
A-4893 is 2.1 ohm, 22AWG, 535 turns
My AL-23-800-01 is 5.3 ohm, 23AWG, 850 turns

Thank you. I have the schematics. Just starting to dig in, but...see below.

I got the topside ball gate mech for the lower PF trough (thank you, tdddddd!). Some degunking & it moves smoothly. I think it's the wrong coil--it's A-5195 but manual says A-16570.
My errors come from 1 ball draining during monoball.
I've neither bent up a wire nor run wires to the lug yet (see below), & the condition has worsened: tube ball lift coil fires less often now, & very often too weakly to get the ball up the tube.

---

Here's where it gets fun.

1. I have only 1 power transistor & bracket by the cutout.
2. Surprise--I have a pop bumper driver board controlling the tube ball lift coil. Haven't seen this one before, but I'm told it's not necessary cray-cray? (But it's not upgraded like the other 6 pop bumper boards were in this game).

I think, rather than try to put band-aids on this to get it running again, the scope of my work to get things squared away properly & robust is:
a) Get 2 correct coils
b) Maybe get the Cliffy EOS flipper coil bracket for the ball lift
c) Rewire the ball lift properly, or leave as-is w/ the pop bumper board?
d) If keeping the pop bumper board, give it the robustifying upgrades
e) Wire up the ball gate
f) Fabricate the bent wire ball pusher in the gate assembly
g) Get a pair of 2N5879 PNP transistors for the 2 coils, add the resistor upgrade, ditch the existing single 2N5875 transistor

On a good day, that's a tall task for me. Given all the rest I've got going on these days, I think I need to gather parts & find me a tech who can get this straightened out (heck given that the lower PF comes out so easily & isn't too terribly heavy or large, I suppose I could even ship it...).

Thanks for reading.
-Jason

PXL_20230212_212511506 (resized).jpgPXL_20230212_212858356 (resized).jpgPXL_20230213_002818233 (resized).jpgPXL_20230213_003305585 (resized).jpg

Here's a pic showing the wireform and the A-16570 coil. You can contact Steve at PBR and tell him what coils you have. He'll let you know if they'll work.
Modifications using a PBDB to energize the tube-kicker were popular upgrades, especially for HH.

bh-upkick (resized).jpg

I'm working on a Black Hole I just got and am having some issues with sound and speech. When I first got it, the game played, but several sounds and speech were missing. Others were present and played at the appropriate times.

I pulled the sound/speech board, reseated all socketed chips, cleaned the edge connector, and replaced one cap that read open in circuit. (The new cap also tested open once installed in the board but was fine on the bench.)

Now, I have all sounds and speech - for a couple of hours. After the game has been on for a couple of hours, I lose some speech. Mostly the re-entry and captive ball call outs. Shut the game off, wait for a few hours, and they all come back.

Any thoughts? I'm guessing the other caps on the board need to be replaced even though they tested fine on the bench. Maybe they are drifting as they heat up? Any other thoughts? What's the chances the problem is related to the driver board connector?

Have you performed the Sound and Speech board test procedure that is shown on page 18?

Since the speech is generated electronically and some phrases are working, I suspect that your S & S board is perfectly good but the sound triggers are not reliably coming over from the Driver board.

The SC-01 chip contains the ability to generate 64 different phonemes, and the game's phrases are generated by combining these electronic sounds as per the EPROM. The MPU sends a signal to the Driver board, then the Driver board fires its transistors and sends one or more sound triggers, "S1", "S2", "S4", "S8", "S16", and "S32", out to the S & S board, where the EPROM tells SC-01 how to generate the phrase.

Without the appropriate triggers, the sound will not be generated.

You are correct that you have something that is being affected by heat. Since it's only certain sounds, you may want to focus efforts on your Driver board and connectors. The sound triggers come from the Driver. You can get a logic probe and check outputs next time it fails. Do you have the schematics?

Do not neglect the fact that your connector pins can also be sensitive to heat. Have you re-pinned any connectors? Cleaning will not accomplish much if the metal pins are not springy enough to maintain contact. If they are not maintaining solid contact, temperature can have a huge effect. Not only that, a loose connection will get hot, which then makes the problem worse.

IMHO, I am betting the root problem is in the connector pin(s), especially if your S & S board passes the test on page 18.

i did have some intermittent sound issues were sometimes the sounds would be missing then come back.
but it due the switches on the sound board not making good contact. i filliped the switches back and forth a few times and never had the problem again .
but i did have a flash pinball that had similar issues with losing sounds after a hour but that was due to a old capacitor that had dried up.

This morning, i found myself thinking about blownfuse aka Steve Charland, may he rest in peace. I don't know how many folks here remember him or were around when he was here. He was such a helpful guy, and he knew system 80 games so well. Black Hole was his favorite by far, though. He even came up with a 7-digit score display mod for this game like 25+ years ago

I never knew him personally, though he did help me out a couple times while he was here... And he also helped me (indirectly) countless times in earlier threads he posted on here and on RGP...many threads that had existed long before I ever got a BH. He seemed like a real character, and the community definitely felt it when he passed on.

If the finest Black Hole machine is up in heaven, I like to think they also have the finest tech to maintain it up there now too

Oh, son of a pitch. You've got to be kidding!

I've gone back & read through all of this thread (up to the last few pages) & have come across many users who have had trouble with their tube upkicker. The different solutions have been almost as numerous as the posts.

There was one post that resonated with me ( https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-club-members-only/page/17#post-2863394 ): user moved the game to another room, & it wouldn't upkick until he adjusted the game pitch.

Just about all I'd done since receiving the game was a thorough shop job & leveling it.

I jammed some shims (2 furniture sliders, my shim of choice) under the front legs till the upper PF was floaty.
Nope.

I put 2 shims under each rear leg.
WORKING!!!

I pulled the temporary shims & extended the rear feet until the upper PF was at 4.7 degrees.
After a couple of days of play, I had only ONE instance of the game not kicking the ball up.

So, I extended the rear feet pretty much all the way up. The front feet were already all the way down (I have kids & like to bring the front down all the way to for them).
It's been a couple of days, with ZERO non-kicking instances.

Weird. Of all things...

I know the ball was triggering the upkicker switch per my tests...perhaps, when the pitch is way off, ball just momentarily closes that switch & then the ball shifts, opening the switch again. Maybe the game won't fire that coil if it sees just a momentary switch closure? I can't think what else might make coil-firing performance be so sensitive to a few degrees of pitch change...

I've still got to wire up the lower trough gate mech that I rebuilt, replace some sockets, see why the tilt doesn't always seem to work, see why the replay knocker is super quiet, & do some other robustifying.
But now I'm just excited to play. That stuff can wait.

Thanks for your comments & suggestions.
-Jason

PS: the game plays about 18X faster now that it's at the correct pitch. My scores are lame.

Mine was acting up like that and sometimes not firing even though it seemed as though the switch was adjusted well, so I decided oh well, put in a new switch... but it kept happening occasionally. Figured out that while the switch seemed to be closing when eyeballing it with the pf raised and holding a ball in there, in play it wasn't closing with enough switch travel. Needed to adjust the wireform and put very little gap on the points to finally nix the issue.

In my opinion, the best solution is to replace the tube kicker with a flipper coil/end of stroke switch. You kill two birds with one mod. Easy to adjust the kicking strength and you will not need to worry about frying your fuses and transistors.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-club-members-only/page/40#post-5916606

Solution:
I put a small shim between the actuator & the playfield mount bracket.

Result:
The metal kick-out arm rests just a millimeter or two higher up, so the ball doesn't settle as deep into the hole. So, there's not enough room for a 2nd ball to get hung up in the hole also.
And the switch still closes fine when the first ball goes in.

Thanks,
-Jason

Wow. Forgot attachment. Oy...

left capture shim (resized).jpg

I picked up some steel wire to make the lower PF trough gate that was missing from my machine.

I have a good amount of leftover material: about 12" & 6". I used about 6" to make my lower gate wire.

If anybody needs this wire, message me. I'd prefer to give 6" segments to 3 members, but if I don't have 3 takers, I'll give more than 6" to somebody.

Donation to cover shipping appreciated.

Thanks,
-Jason

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Is there anyone here that is able to scan their inner backglass for me? I’d like to create a translight for mine. My inner backglass is shot.

Or if there is anyone that has the ability to make one for me, let me know! Or if you have an extra backglass laying around I could buy.

For the 7 digit display conversion does the low pf display also get converted or does it stay as a 6 digit?

Stays six digit. Depending on the version you get, it may be a divide by ten on the bonus. I did actually have a really good game where I turned over the bonus and lost a million in bonus....
Not sure about the Pascal board requirement re the display this is referring to one of the Steve Charland ones.

Coos has them for sale.

Are they really for sale? FWIW, I checked the Coos website and it has Black Hole, but it says:

"The (pinball) backglasses shown on the pictures are not for sale but already used for private restoration projects, pictures for showing purpose only."

https://www.coos.net/bingo_e/Backglasses.html

Reach out to him.

I don't need one, but was curious on price.

Since you said they were for sale, but the website says they are not, I was hoping you knew something more.

The guys that have taken over distribution for Shay Arcade said today on Facebook that the inner backglass is about to be released. I’d wait a little bit and buy a Shay silkscreened glass.

Black Hole game head in OH - $40

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/214129437867744/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A2b28593a-cfcb-4aa3-a32a-36031abd64b5

I have a VERY nice Black Hole for sale in CT...been in storage since '01...Up & running, small issue with ball not ejecting from trough..sounds & speech are 100%, displays good, playfield has minimal wear, cab if god shape. Really a nice player's pin. Backglass (both are nice and spinner motor works and it's quiet! 2900. cash located in CT. PM for pics.

I have player 2 display pulling the 42v and 60v down to nothing on my power supply. I noticed this when I turned power on and noticed that all the displays were out. With display 2 unplugged from harness all the other displays come back when powered on. Anybody know if this is fixable on the display board or could I have another issue? I have not removed another display to try in player 2 yet do to not knowing if the problem is related to something else. Looking for a spare display at the moment but was hoping to possibly fix the display if possible if it's the problem.

It's likely the display, but you don't need a spare to test. Just move a known good display from another spot into the Player 2 spot; and if it works, you'll know it's the display.

There is very little that can go wrong on these displays. If the glass is good, the chips and other components can be replaced as needed. If the glass is bad, it can also be changed or you can just salvage the good chips from the board. I have spare boards with no glass, I have spare glass and chips... all still fairly easy to obtain thanks to eBay.

The display driver chips can easily be tested as per this procedure:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#/media/File:TestingUDN6118AndUDN7180.jpg

Thanks for the link. This will help me possibly figure out what I need to replace. Thanks

I noticed that sometimes the lower playfield orbit that awards an additional multiplier will give one x more and sometimes it gives two. My thinking Is the gap in the gate switch needs adjusting.
I just want to be sure there is not a time the game is supposed to award 2 extra multipliers for one orbit?
Thanks

The multiplier should only advance once each time that switch is activated. It does sound like the switch is probably gapped a little too close...

Alright guys, my Black Hole starting doing something weird today. When I turn the machine on and start a game it says error like 5 times and no back ground music but the game plays fine. Any suggestions what's going on?

Does this machine have a Gottlieb S&S board with a standard Black Hole sound ROM?

Gottlieb System 80 Sound & Speech cards can not say "error" unless it's part of the game. Black Hole does not say "error"...

Screen Shot 2023-04-09 at 10.03.18 PM (resized).png

It also does not say "error" in the S&S test routine...

Screen Shot 2023-04-09 at 10.03.59 PM (resized).png

It sounds like error, error, error, error, error, etc. but maybe it's something else it's saying. It's says it like several times with no background music, but I can still play the game. Yes, it's the standard black hole boards in it and rom.

Very strange. I don't know what it's saying, but it cannot say "error" even once, let alone five times. (maybe it's possible some MPU or Driver problem is triggering random phonemes that sound like "error"?)

Please take a video of this and post it here. After taking the video, shut down machine and reseat the S&S board connector... then power up and try again.

Also, did you try doing the Sound & Speech test as per page 18 of the manual that I posted above? Follow each step as written.

Sound & Speech board, not the "Sound only" board? Which version? There are three that are compatible with System 80. The part number will be on the board.

Does your board have an original Votrax SC-01 chip?

Please post high-res photos of the board.

F4BD7480-D817-41F4-9F3E-AF9F47719B26 (resized).jpeg It might be saying tilt, tilt, tilt, tilt, etc but the tilt light doesn't come on and I can still play the game.

Whether it's saying "tilt" or "error" is a big difference. This is why I was hoping you could post a video so we can hear it.

And that's not a high-res photo of the sound & speech board.

Screen Shot 2023-04-10 at 3.15.38 PM (resized).png

I'm really trying to help you.

• Can you post a video of the sound so we can hear?
• Did you re-seat the connector to the S & S board yet?
• Did you try doing the S & S test as per page 18 of the manual?
• Which version of S & S board? The part number will be on the S & S board.
• Does your board have a Votrax SC-01 chip?
• Can you post high-res photos of the front & back of the S & S board.

I'm going to throw out a guess here.... but I think your sound/speech board is stuck in test mode, and its saying "Four, Four, Four, Four"

Interesting idea. To get the board to say "four" one time, during Game Over, you first have to go through the entire sound test and then jumper pin 11 to ground. Turning machine on/off removes it from the sound test mode.

I wonder what would happen if the sound test button is stuck closed while having a ground on pin 11? Can you get to the end of the flowchart without touching the DIP switches? With a persistent ground on pin 11 does it repeat the sound or just say it once? But it's still not in Game Over when you first turn it on.

Sorry I was trying to upload the video to YouTube and it was taking forever. Here’s video I took earlier.

Here’s some more pictures, I just reseated the connector.

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Alright turn it on after resetting the connector and it’s working now. I checked the tilt switches but everything looks okay. Weird

Absolutely, without a doubt, that's saying: "Tilt, tilt, tilt, tilt.. tilt... tilt.... tilt..... tilt....... tilt"

9 times, not 5, starting fast and each one progressively spoken slower.

Sounds are triggered by a combination of input signals coming through the various sound board connector wires. You had a loose connection(s) that just happened to reproduce the address calling for the tilt sound. You were still able to play because the tilt did not come from a tilt switch and the MPU did not trigger it.

Also note that if you decide to do that, heat up and straighten out the capacitors' leads and snip off any excess before pulling the caps out, those thru holes are very tight. Otherwise it can rip up the circuit traces (been there done that!)

lol.... sounds like a typical System 80 to me.

Thanks everyone! Hopefully this game well work for sometime now.