(Topic ID: 77057)

Black Hole Club... Members Only!

By mof

9 years ago


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There are 2,903 posts in this topic. You are on page 58 of 59.
#2851 28 days ago

Is there a way to change the speed of the backbox chase lights? Swap a resistor or something to that effect? Or even put in a potentiometer to make it adjustable on the fly?

Thanks,
-Jason

#2852 28 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Is there a way to change the speed of the backbox chase lights? Swap a resistor or something to that effect? Or even put in a potentiometer to make it adjustable on the fly?
Thanks,
-Jason

The Pinwiki page for System 80 lists the different R13 resistor values on the lamp chase board used on different games that have different speeds, you just change that resistor for a different speed.

#2853 28 days ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

The Pinwiki page for System 80 lists the different R13 resistor values on the lamp chase board used on different games that have different speeds, you just change that resistor for a different speed.

Thank you! I did see that...but I don't have a feel for what speed each game has...and I bet that lots of games have had their boards switched or resistors switched over time.

I guess the succinct follow-up question to ask is:

Does a higher resistance make the lights go faster or slower?

Thanks!
-Jason

#2854 28 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Is there a way to change the speed of the backbox chase lights?

I added a pot resistor to mine because I put blue LEDs in the chaser lights. I didn't like the on/off duration either and changed that timing too.

#2855 28 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Thank you! I did see that...but I don't have a feel for what speed each game has...and I bet that lots of games have had their boards switched or resistors switched over time.
I guess the succinct follow-up question to ask is:
Does a higher resistance make the lights go faster or slower?
Thanks!
-Jason

If my memory is intact, l replaced R-12, R-13 and C-1. I don't remember which resistors changes the speed and which changes the on/off duration.

IMG_20230112_012941 (resized).jpg
#2856 27 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Thank you! I did see that...but I don't have a feel for what speed each game has...and I bet that lots of games have had their boards switched or resistors switched over time.
I guess the succinct follow-up question to ask is:
Does a higher resistance make the lights go faster or slower?
Thanks!
-Jason

Here ya go, from the old BHHHC repair guide. BH's lights are 4X faster than Haunted House. So increasing R13's value slows down the lamps.

322766244_1798689053836474_8884041035021690134_n (resized).png
#2857 27 days ago

Great information. Thanks so much. Now if I can only find an inner back glass for BH.

#2858 27 days ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Was visiting my Brother over New years. Several years ago; I restored a black hole and gave it to him for Christmas.
We were playing it for most of the day and then decided to work on some issues it was having. Mostly mechanical due to the window. :S
Anyway; at some point - the game started refusing to boot properly and then refusing to credit up for a game. I broke out the oscilloscope and did some quick troubleshooting. The game is getting a good clock and fetching ROM code.
We think we isolated the problem to a coindoor harness. The symptom was that the game would boot if we left the coin door open about 10%. it would boot into attract mode with zero credits. If we opened the coindoor enough to credit the game; the system would lock up.
We both think that one or more of the wires - maybe surrounding Slam Switch being open.
A few times we had a credit the game would play the "tilt sound effect" as soon as the game was started.
Anyone seen this before? any other suggestions?

I a similar issue on a different Gottlieb game. Issue was a bad connection on the ground for the slam switch. I could replicate by moving the harness until I found it.

#2859 27 days ago

Whats slope is most people running? I've tried a few and the best feeling I can get is 6.5 on the upper playfield but the lower playfield feels to slow.
Also are there any fixes for the balls getting stuck on the lower playfield in the gate before the transfer tube. Its mostly in multiball the 2nd ball usually gets stuck at the gate

#2860 27 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

If my memory is intact, l replaced R-12, R-13 and C-1. I don't remember which resistors changes the speed and which changes the on/off duration.
[quoted image]

Love it.
Do you know the range of that potentiometer?
And is it safe to adjust it while powered on?

Thanks,
-Jason

#2861 27 days ago

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bourns-inc/3362P-1-105LF/1088414?s=N4IgTCBcDaIMxwGxgA4FoCMmAMBWANgGZoB2AJiALoC%2BQA

You can use this. It will adjust from @ 55 pulses to well over 300 pulses. You only need to use 2 of the 3 leads, but you need to test it with an omh meter first to know which 2. No problem adjusting while the game is on. Best to have someone adjust it for you while you watch.

#2862 27 days ago
Quoted from Crimcyan:

Whats slope is most people running? I've tried a few and the best feeling I can get is 6.5 on the upper playfield but the lower playfield feels to slow.
Also are there any fixes for the balls getting stuck on the lower playfield in the gate before the transfer tube. Its mostly in multiball the 2nd ball usually gets stuck at the gate

Add shims/washers under the lower play field where the locking screws hold it down. The screws will hold the washers in place to keep them from falling out. You get the best play on both

#2863 26 days ago

I picked up another Black Hole this past Thanksgiving to use as a guide to restore mine...don't need it anymore so it's up for grabs...I'm in CT...machine is pretty decent, boots, sounds all work, but doesn't eject ball into trough...comes with another head, empty, no boards but has both glasses. Couple extra sets of plastics, including the disc. Extra sets of pop bumpers. getting rid of it all as my keeper machine is completed. I took NOTHING off of this pin for mine, I simply needed it as a guide. Machine had an easy life, but it does have some cab flaws here and there, nothing major. Anyway, PM if interested or need pics.

#2864 26 days ago
Quoted from Crimcyan:

Whats slope is most people running? I've tried a few and the best feeling I can get is 6.5 on the upper playfield but the lower playfield feels to slow.
Also are there any fixes for the balls getting stuck on the lower playfield in the gate before the transfer tube. Its mostly in multiball the 2nd ball usually gets stuck at the gate

Mine is at 5.7, plenty fast for me on both playfields. I could probably live with 6. Yes shimming up the lower would compensate if you're accustomed to 6.5 or 7 on your games.

Is your track switch #53 clean and adjusted correctly? Is the gate release coil pulling in okay but the ball is still not clearing it, or (?) Or does the ball just sit there on the switch and nothing happens? I suppose if your lower playfield slant was WAY too low after really cranking up the upper pf, it could mess with the ball being released by the gate cleanly, or cause the ball to barely get hung up by the switch sometimes.

#2865 26 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bourns-inc/3362P-1-105LF/1088414?s=N4IgTCBcDaIMxwGxgA4FoCMmAMBWANgGZoB2AJiALoC%2BQA
You can use this. It will adjust from @ 55 pulses to well over 300 pulses. You only need to use 2 of the 3 leads, but you need to test it with an omh meter first to know which 2. No problem adjusting while the game is on. Best to have someone adjust it for you while you watch.

I scavenged around & found a 1MOhm potentiometer in a little longer package.
As luck would have it, the 2 legs that were spaced farther apart were a near-perfect fit for the 2 plated thru holes in the PCB.
Super easy installation.
It sits at a slightly goofy angle, but that's actually perfect--if it were straight, the standoff would be in the way!

I now have fine control over the speed of the chase lights. They're much more relaxed now than they were before.

Thanks to you & frenchmarky for your help!
-Jason

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#2866 25 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

SW-06 and/or game shutting down has nothing to do with pop bumper boards, because these do not have any connection/communication to the MPU. The pop bumpers are activated "directly" by the ball (ball impact -> switch closes -> corresponding pop bumper board fires power to solenoid). When a pop board fails, the pop bumper simply fail to activate, and the MPU never knows anything about it.

However, the scoring switches on the pop bumpers connect to the MPU.

(pop bumper activates -> scoring switch closes -> MPU adds points)

"SW-06" represents the scoring switches for all four pop bumpers on the top playfield. Make sure all of these switches are properly adjusted and none are stuck closed. Look for wire colors 855 (slate/green/green) and 666 (blue/blue/blue) to properly identify the scoring switch contacts.

sparky672 Thanks again dude, turns out one of the pop bumper rings was occasionally sticking down and keeping the scoring switch closed long enough for the machine to think there was a fault. Never would have understood it without your concise description.

#2867 25 days ago
Quoted from matt_adams:

sparky672 Thanks again dude, turns out one of the pop bumper rings was occasionally sticking down and keeping the scoring switch closed long enough for the machine to think there was a fault. Never would have understood it without your concise description.

Sure thing. Any time.

#2868 25 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Add shims/washers under the lower play field where the locking screws hold it down. The screws will hold the washers in place to keep them from falling out. You get the best play on both

That is a great idea! I was over thinking it and thinking I'd have to unscrew the tabs that hold it and try adjusting it but thats way more simple

Quoted from frenchmarky:

Mine is at 5.7, plenty fast for me on both playfields. I could probably live with 6. Yes shimming up the lower would compensate if you're accustomed to 6.5 or 7 on your games.
Is your track switch #53 clean and adjusted correctly? Is the gate release coil pulling in okay but the ball is still not clearing it, or (?) Or does the ball just sit there on the switch and nothing happens? I suppose if your lower playfield slant was WAY too low after really cranking up the upper pf, it could mess with the ball being released by the gate cleanly, or cause the ball to barely get hung up by the switch sometimes.

Its where it would get caught at the caught on the switch and nothing happens. Pretty sure it was do to the slant I have on the game at but I tried adjusting the switch so it takes less pressure to activate it but it only worked for a awhile. So I think I might just try the shimming idea and go from there as I really like the 6.5 on the main level

#2869 22 days ago

Does anybody have recommendations for 28V LED bulbs to replace the incandescent 313 bulbs that illuminate the lower PF?

My first searches reveal LEDs costing $4-5 each. Eeek!

Thanks,
-Jason

#2871 22 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Does anybody have recommendations for 28V LED bulbs to replace the incandescent 313 bulbs that illuminate the lower PF?
My first searches reveal LEDs costing $4-5 each. Eeek!
Thanks,
-Jason

Convert it to 6 volt ac and use regular GI leds.

#2872 22 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Does anybody have recommendations for 28V LED bulbs to replace the incandescent 313 bulbs that illuminate the lower PF?
My first searches reveal LEDs costing $4-5 each. Eeek!
Thanks,
-Jason

Comet Pinball has them in LED's, variety of colors also. $1.59 each.

#2873 22 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Does anybody have recommendations for 28V LED bulbs to replace the incandescent 313 bulbs that illuminate the lower PF?
My first searches reveal LEDs costing $4-5 each. Eeek!
Thanks,
-Jason

Keep the 313s, it's one of the things that make Black Hole unique and quirky. I do run LEDs in the GI strings, but run traditional 313s on that high voltage string. That's my two cents.

#2874 22 days ago

Has anyone tried the ice blue 313 LED from Comet Pinball?

#2875 22 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Convert it to 6 volt ac and use regular GI leds.

I second this. If for no other reason but to simplify the bulbs for the next person someday down the road. Switching them takes 10 minutes.

Here's an easy to use guide from Pinwiki

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Black_Hole#Replacing_Black_Hole_Lower_Playfield_Illumination_Lamps_with_.2344_Lamps

#2876 22 days ago
Quoted from Lithium:

Keep the 313s, it's one of the things that make Black Hole unique and quirky. I do run LEDs in the GI strings, but run traditional 313s on that high voltage string. That's my two cents.

I did exactly that too. 313s are readily available and cheap, I bought a couple of boxes just in case that will last long after I'm dead, but none of mine have actually ever burned out. The 6V mod is the way to go if you really prefer LEDs there, and in colors, and ones that are even brighter than 313s if you want.

#2877 22 days ago

A couple of the pop skirts are a little sluggish when springing back upward after being pushed down.
When I looked under the hood, I thought at first that the skirt stake tips had melted & stuck to the spoons. The spoon & skirt would move together as one, whether I pushed or pulled.

Removing the switch stack, I found what looked much like the dark gray portion of JB Weld. Dark, sticky, tacky, thick, gooey.

Cleaned it all off w/ alcohol & a rag--the pic shows what I removed from just 1 or 2 of the 6 pops. Yuck.

After a little research, I learned that some people lube their spoons, & it was more common on older games. I've never seen this in any of my 19 games (plus a couple of loaners) over 11 years--perhaps because the oldest I had was a 1979 Meteor(?)
On my Black Hole, decades of collecting dust turned what surely was once a nice lube into dark gray peanut butter.

Some of the pop skirts are still a little lethargic on their spring-back. I'm considering adding a small dab of some dry lube that won't turn into sludge.

Thanks,
-Jason

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#2878 21 days ago

Never had a spoon gunked up or sticking like *that* before, blech. I always clean everything and then smear a tiny speck of white coin machine lube on the spoon with a Q-tip or toothpick.

#2879 21 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Does anybody have recommendations for 28V LED bulbs to replace the incandescent 313 bulbs that illuminate the lower PF?
My first searches reveal LEDs costing $4-5 each. Eeek!
Thanks,
-Jason

Thanks for the nudges, everybody.
I did the 28V -> 6.3V mod per Pinwiki. I'd looked at it before but didn't grasp it, so I was gunshy.

After looking at it more closely, it was a real snap.

Done. Plain old 44/47 bulbs lighting the lower PF now.

***AS GRATITUDE***
Pinside has been good to me.
I had added a box of 313 incandescent bulbs on my last PBR order for some more critical items. Guess I don't need them now!
I'll mail the box, plus the 9 used bulbs that I pulled from my game (most, if not all, work, & most look pretty new) to any Pinside member who wants it.
Free shipping in US. $10 shipping outside of the US.

Thanks,
-Jason

#2880 17 days ago

Almost done w/ the cleanup: vacuuming, cleaning, polishing, Blitz wax, new rubbers/plastics/nuts/lane guides/window screws/window spacers, a couple quick mods & robustifying & a little elbow grease has brought it a luster & shine that it didn't have before.

I've got one or two more little things to check off my checklist before I start flipping (& it's downright fun for a wimp like me to deadlift that lower PF out of the cab & working on it anywhere I darn well please).

***ANOTHER FREEBIE***
I got a new set of upper FP plastics from PBR (lower plastics looked fine).
I'll ship the complete used set to anybody who will pay for exact shipping.

They're in pretty good condition, w/ the following exceptions:
- The giant upper plastic is cracked right above the shooter lane.
- Most (actually, perhaps all?) are warped.
- The long right plastic is warped down so deeply right above the 4 yellow standup targets that the ball would clobber the plastic. Said the previous owner, "the rubber push-on nuts holding that plastic are in the bottom of the cabinet--the keep falling off, but it's better to keep them off so that the plastic is free to pop upward every time you hit those targets."
- The clear hidden plastic on the inside of the Gravity Tunnel loop is included--I forgot to pull it before taking the picture of the set.

Thanks,
-Jason

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#2881 17 days ago

your black hole looks great , and even your old used plastics look look less yellow than mine , especially the clear parts ,
i could use those plastics if you don't need them.
how much did you want for them?, i do have a couple of plastics that are cracked on the main playfield and all are a bit yellow.
i am nearly done fixing everything on my black hole.

#2882 16 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

your black hole looks great , and even your old used plastics look look less yellow than mine , especially the clear parts ,
i could use those plastics if you don't need them.
how much did you want for them?, i do have a couple of plastics that are cracked on the main playfield and all are a bit yellow.
i am nearly done fixing everything on my black hole.

Thanks. It photographs better in the dark. The PF has lots of ball swirls, planking, & chips around the edges. It has character.

Yes, I think there's minimal/no yellowing on my old plastics--they seem pretty clear.

Cost to you for my old plastics set is just the cost of shipping. Give me a few days to get them packed, weighed, & then I'll give you your shipping quote.

Thanks,
-Jason

#2883 16 days ago

After many years of reliable service thanks to all the standard upgrades (ground mod, pop driver boards, slam switch) my Black Hole is acting up. It's triggering the Tilt yet not actually tilting. This happens as soon as any switch is activated, usually the rollover's up top. This triggers the tilt sounds, "Tilt,tilt,tilt" but continues to play normally. Tilt relay is not engaged, and if you actually tilt the game that does respond normally by cutting power. Doing some re-reading of This Old Pinball guides I'm thinking this may be a PROM socket issue? Definitely seems to be an MPU issue, just wondering if anyone had any experience with this before I go and swap the PROM sockets out. Thanks!

#2884 16 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Almost done w/ the cleanup: vacuuming, cleaning, polishing, Blitz wax, new rubbers/plastics/nuts/lane guides/window screws/window spacers, a couple quick mods & robustifying & a little elbow grease has brought it a luster & shine that it didn't have before.
I've got one or two more little things to check off my checklist before I start flipping (& it's downright fun for a wimp like me to deadlift that lower PF out of the cab & working on it anywhere I darn well please).
***ANOTHER FREEBIE***
I got a new set of upper FP plastics from PBR (lower plastics looked fine).
I'll ship the complete used set to anybody who will pay for exact shipping.
They're in pretty good condition, w/ the following exceptions:
- The giant upper plastic is cracked right above the shooter lane.
- Most (actually, perhaps all?) are warped.
- The long right plastic is warped down so deeply right above the 4 yellow standup targets that the ball would clobber the plastic. Said the previous owner, "the rubber push-on nuts holding that plastic are in the bottom of the cabinet--the keep falling off, but it's better to keep them off so that the plastic is free to pop upward every time you hit those targets."
- The clear hidden plastic on the inside of the Gravity Tunnel loop is included--I forgot to pull it before taking the picture of the set.
Thanks,
-Jason
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

If the first person drops out kind sir I'd be interested, my Black Hole plastic set has seen better days.

#2885 16 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:Thanks. It photographs better in the dark. The PF has lots of ball swirls, planking, & chips around the edges. It has character.
Yes, I think there's minimal/no yellowing on my old plastics--they seem pretty clear.
Cost to you for my old plastics set is just the cost of shipping. Give me a few days to get them packed, weighed, & then I'll give you your shipping quote.
Thanks,
-Jason

okay no hurry , i am still sure that i want them.

#2886 16 days ago
Quoted from catboxer:

After many years of reliable service thanks to all the standard upgrades (ground mod, pop driver boards, slam switch) my Black Hole is acting up. It's triggering the Tilt yet not actually tilting. This happens as soon as any switch is activated, usually the rollover's up top. This triggers the tilt sounds, "Tilt,tilt,tilt" but continues to play normally. Tilt relay is not engaged, and if you actually tilt the game that does respond normally by cutting power. Doing some re-reading of This Old Pinball guides I'm thinking this may be a PROM socket issue? Definitely seems to be an MPU issue, just wondering if anyone had any experience with this before I go and swap the PROM sockets out. Thanks!

Check the 10 point switches to make sure they are not stuck close. My game started playing tilt and other wrong music and found a 10 point switch stuck close. Fixed that and everything went back to normal play.

#2887 16 days ago
Quoted from catboxer:

After many years of reliable service thanks to all the standard upgrades (ground mod, pop driver boards, slam switch) my Black Hole is acting up. It's triggering the Tilt yet not actually tilting. This happens as soon as any switch is activated, usually the rollover's up top. This triggers the tilt sounds, "Tilt,tilt,tilt" but continues to play normally. Tilt relay is not engaged, and if you actually tilt the game that does respond normally by cutting power. Doing some re-reading of This Old Pinball guides I'm thinking this may be a PROM socket issue? Definitely seems to be an MPU issue, just wondering if anyone had any experience with this before I go and swap the PROM sockets out. Thanks!

If any other sounds seem incorrect, check the connector pins on the sound board. I’ve had mine go into tilt,tilt,…. During a game like that and it was that connector.

#2888 15 days ago
Quoted from catboxer:

... triggers the tilt sounds, "Tilt,tilt,tilt" but continues to play normally. Tilt relay is not engaged ...

As sysprog suggested, this seems to be a clue. Everything plays normal except you're hearing a sound that you shouldn't. I suspect that you're getting a trigger from perhaps a bad connection. Otherwise, if it had anything to do with actual tilt circuits, you'd get a game stoppage.

Quoted from sysprog:

... check the connector pins on the sound board. I’ve had mine go into tilt,tilt,…. During a game like that and it was that connector.

Yes. I agree with sysprog. The sound signals are triggered by the Driver board. Check every connection/connector from the Sound & Speech board to the Driver board. Sound signals 1, 2, 4, and 8 are pins 6, 5, 1, and 7 in A3J5; and Sound 16 is pin 9 in A3J2.

Quoted from catboxer:

... I'm thinking this may be a PROM socket issue? ...

Check the basic stuff first. Wires/connectors.

#2889 15 days ago

This happened twice in 2 games in a row tonight. Locked a ball in the saucer at left on the upper playfield.
The ball rests rather low & far back in the hole.

Sent another ball up there. Stuck. Tiltsville trying to get it out.

Is there an adjustment I can make to the saucer?

Thank you!
-Jason

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#2890 11 days ago

Would anyone happen to have the 7 digit rom? I am starting to do the conversation to 7 digits but cant find the rom anywhere online

#2891 11 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

This happened twice in 2 games in a row tonight. Locked a ball in the saucer at left on the upper playfield.
The ball rests rather low & far back in the hole.
Sent another ball up there. Stuck. Tiltsville trying to get it out.
Is there an adjustment I can make to the saucer?
Thank you!
-Jason
[quoted image][quoted image]

I would try bending the deflector down a touch after removing from machine.

#2892 11 days ago
Quoted from Crimcyan:

Would anyone happen to have the 7 digit rom? I am starting to do the conversation to 7 digits but cant find the rom anywhere online

GameTronik website?

#2893 11 days ago
Quoted from Crimcyan:

Would anyone happen to have the 7 digit rom? I am starting to do the conversation to 7 digits but cant find the rom anywhere online

You can get it there
https://www.flipprojets.fr/Home_EN.php
I have got it last month.
Works perfectly, real update to 80A system.
Not really cheap, but it's worth.
You also inside get ball save, and lane change

IMG_20221112_184305 (resized).jpg

IMG_20221217_183706 (resized).jpg
#2894 11 days ago

Late to the game, but re: coin door issues:

I had a grounded coin switch leaf that caused all kinds of really weird behavior. Remove your mechs and make sure the leafs are all clear.

#2895 11 days ago
Quoted from Matt08:

You can get it there
https://www.flipprojets.fr/Home_EN.php
I have got it last month.
Works perfectly, real update to 80A system.
Not really cheap, but it's worth.
You also inside get ball save, and lane change
[quoted image][quoted image]

Not sure if that would work form me since I have the great plains U2/U3 adapter, plus I'm not really seeing any files for blackhole on there atm

#2896 10 days ago

Hello,

We not provide files for 6 digits version.

Only the 7 digits is available, only with our adapter on U2, like figured in the picture above. ("668 7D").

Our adapter combine U2 + U3 + GAME PROM.

Flipprojets

#2897 10 days ago

Argh. Inconsistent problems are the funnest to diagnose.

- Using Ni-Wumpf MPU.
- All switches test fine in test mode using an actual ball. All switches react fine in-game.
- About 3/4 of the time, when I drain the lower PF I'll get the appropriate sound & light, then the ball will kick up the tube to the upper PF.
- About 1/4 of the time, I'll get the appropriate signals (i.e., the switch in the tube has been closed), ***BUT THE BALL DOES NOT KICK UP THE TUBE.***
- I bought the game reportedly working, so I believe that this was working OK. I didn't play it much before I did my shop job. I never saw this behavior, but it's not entirely impossible that it was there & I just didn't see it. About the only thing I did was unplug & plug in the 3 lower PF harness connectors a few times. I cleaned the pins.
- I cleaned the tube switch contacts. I don't want to bend the tube switch wireform up any higher b/c the kicker arm already grazes it (when there's no ball there holding the wireform down).

Related info:
- *Sometimes* if I shake the game silly, it will then kick the ball up. I'm not sure if this is jiggling the tube switch & opening/closing it again, then the game gets the message & kicks it up.
- Occasionally, the ball won't make it all the way up the tube. When it falls back down, it will sometimes try again but sometimes not.
- Somewhat more rarely, when I make the lower lock, the game will kick out another ball into the shooter lane, but then it will also kick out that lower locked ball, drain it, then kill the flippers to drain both balls.
- Tube coil is not original. Has non-pretty soldering at the lug.
- This may be a biggie, but I think the game can get by fine for now as long as I don't drain 2 balls in rapid succession in the lower PF: I'm missing the entire ball gate trough assembly downstairs! Ack! I see an orphaned green/slate/slate (I think) wire, but I haven't hunted for whatever else goes along w/ that missing assembly. I'm inclined to not focus on this missing stuff at the moment, because my intuition tells me that there's something else amiss. I checked in-game, & the first gate switch in the trough doesn't trigger the sound & lights indicating that the ball is about to kick up--the switch at the bottom of the tube is tied in to that logic.

Thanks,
-Jason

PXL_20230129_034208821 (resized).jpgPXL_20230129_034655963 (resized).jpg
#2898 10 days ago

So you get the 'reentry accomplished/failed' speech even when it doesn't kick the ball out?

There are two power transistors under the lower playfield right next to the cutout under the tube kicker coil. Doublecheck the soldered connections on the left one.

#2899 9 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Argh. Inconsistent problems are the funnest to diagnose.
- Using Ni-Wumpf MPU.
- All switches test fine in test mode using an actual ball. All switches react fine in-game.
- About 3/4 of the time, when I drain the lower PF I'll get the appropriate sound & light, then the ball will kick up the tube to the upper PF.
- About 1/4 of the time, I'll get the appropriate signals (i.e., the switch in the tube has been closed), ***BUT THE BALL DOES NOT KICK UP THE TUBE.***
- I bought the game reportedly working, so I believe that this was working OK. I didn't play it much before I did my shop job. I never saw this behavior, but it's not entirely impossible that it was there & I just didn't see it. About the only thing I did was unplug & plug in the 3 lower PF harness connectors a few times. I cleaned the pins.
- I cleaned the tube switch contacts. I don't want to bend the tube switch wireform up any higher b/c the kicker arm already grazes it (when there's no ball there holding the wireform down).
Related info:
- *Sometimes* if I shake the game silly, it will then kick the ball up. I'm not sure if this is jiggling the tube switch & opening/closing it again, then the game gets the message & kicks it up.
- Occasionally, the ball won't make it all the way up the tube. When it falls back down, it will sometimes try again but sometimes not.
- Somewhat more rarely, when I make the lower lock, the game will kick out another ball into the shooter lane, but then it will also kick out that lower locked ball, drain it, then kill the flippers to drain both balls.
- Tube coil is not original. Has non-pretty soldering at the lug.
- This may be a biggie, but I think the game can get by fine for now as long as I don't drain 2 balls in rapid succession in the lower PF: I'm missing the entire ball gate trough assembly downstairs! Ack! I see an orphaned green/slate/slate (I think) wire, but I haven't hunted for whatever else goes along w/ that missing assembly. I'm inclined to not focus on this missing stuff at the moment, because my intuition tells me that there's something else amiss. I checked in-game, & the first gate switch in the trough doesn't trigger the sound & lights indicating that the ball is about to kick up--the switch at the bottom of the tube is tied in to that logic.
Thanks,
-Jason
[quoted image][quoted image]

It needs to be a Gottlieb A-4893 coil.

#2900 9 days ago
Quoted from jasonbar:

Argh. Inconsistent problems are the funnest to diagnose.
- Using Ni-Wumpf MPU.
- All switches test fine in test mode using an actual ball. All switches react fine in-game.
- About 3/4 of the time, when I drain the lower PF I'll get the appropriate sound & light, then the ball will kick up the tube to the upper PF.
- About 1/4 of the time, I'll get the appropriate signals (i.e., the switch in the tube has been closed), ***BUT THE BALL DOES NOT KICK UP THE TUBE.***
- I bought the game reportedly working, so I believe that this was working OK. I didn't play it much before I did my shop job. I never saw this behavior, but it's not entirely impossible that it was there & I just didn't see it. About the only thing I did was unplug & plug in the 3 lower PF harness connectors a few times. I cleaned the pins.
- I cleaned the tube switch contacts. I don't want to bend the tube switch wireform up any higher b/c the kicker arm already grazes it (when there's no ball there holding the wireform down).
Related info:
- *Sometimes* if I shake the game silly, it will then kick the ball up. I'm not sure if this is jiggling the tube switch & opening/closing it again, then the game gets the message & kicks it up.
- Occasionally, the ball won't make it all the way up the tube. When it falls back down, it will sometimes try again but sometimes not.
- Somewhat more rarely, when I make the lower lock, the game will kick out another ball into the shooter lane, but then it will also kick out that lower locked ball, drain it, then kill the flippers to drain both balls.
- Tube coil is not original. Has non-pretty soldering at the lug.
- This may be a biggie, but I think the game can get by fine for now as long as I don't drain 2 balls in rapid succession in the lower PF: I'm missing the entire ball gate trough assembly downstairs! Ack! I see an orphaned green/slate/slate (I think) wire, but I haven't hunted for whatever else goes along w/ that missing assembly. I'm inclined to not focus on this missing stuff at the moment, because my intuition tells me that there's something else amiss. I checked in-game, & the first gate switch in the trough doesn't trigger the sound & lights indicating that the ball is about to kick up--the switch at the bottom of the tube is tied in to that logic.
Thanks,
-Jason
[quoted image][quoted image]

My game was missing the wireform and would lockup during multi-ball when both balls drained at the same time. You must close at least one other switch on the lower level between the first and second ball drain to avoid the lockup. Ultimately I found the assembly for sale and bought it. I should still have it if you need it. It is missing the wireform.
(and thanks to RGP Seymour Shabow for helping me figure this out)

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