eh, double crimp works fine for me even though I left the wire a little long here.... still fine. And yes, those are 2 18 gauge wires in there, not 22s or 24s. You pigtail one, sure, pigtail 100+ on all those connectors? No thanks.

Sure, the grounding solution looks ugly. Could it be neater? Yep. Does it work? Yep. Not sure how you cherry picking an example that suits your needs helps your case for dissing the loads of other respected information that pinrepair has.... or the 500+ games cfh successfully maintains at the VFW hall in Ann Arbor.
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I simply posted a photo. Do not accuse me of "dissing loads of respected info" when no such thing was ever stated. You obviously drew that conclusion completely on your own.

As far as the original idea. Of course it "works" to crimp two wires into one connector. It also "works" to crimp a connector onto a wire by smashing the barrel end with a hammer, but I wouldn't claim it was done properly.

Your point of posting the picture was obviously to cast doubt on ALL of the advice that pinrepair.com posts. Why did you post it otherwise?

I see. You aren't open to ways of doing things that don't match what you consider the correct, only way.

Noted. Noted as well your sarcastic use of quotes, and adding in a ridiculous example afterwards, again to cast doubt on an alternate method of doing something that you don't like.

If you use the crimp pin for the next larger size then crimping two wires to a terminal can work well. Just takes some practice.

I know that some manufacturers like Heathkit did that for many of their wire harnesses. In some of their kits like the old HERO 1 (which uses the same speech as Black Hole) two wires per crimp was part of the factory installation instructions when installing the memory upgrade for the extra power harness. One of the wires was popped out of the shell and then you would re-crimp it with a new pin and two wires.

Just mentioning an example where it was commonly used.

You can use whatever method you prefer. Some like to use the pigtail option with just one wire per crimp. Some prefer to use the two wires per crimp pin if feasible.

You're inventing words and ideas I never expressed. We're talking about quality of wiring so the photo speaks for itself regarding that.

You seem to be getting very angry and personal instead of just agreeing to disagree.

okay , i will try one of those techniques for getting both wires into the connector . but i will wait until i redo the pins on the connector on the mpu and
and one that broke off on the driver board before i do the connectors on the displays. still waiting on that crimping tool . i will need to practice with that crimping tool since i have never used one.

okay i don't know if this means anything but should the bonus display only score for the bottom playfield? on mine the player 1 score shows on the bonus display and the lower playfield player score shows on the player 1 display. still glitchy but does that mean the connections are wrong somewhere?

I've left the club (for now)! Sold my nice US-model Black Hole to a collector in France to raise funds for my TNA CE purchase. Not too many non-export versions over here so he was quite happy and paid a good price. Once I move back to the states I'll be on the lookout for another BH. Love the game!

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The quality of wiring in that picture was not the topic under discussion. The quality of wiring in crimping 2 wires in one pin is. Where's your picture of that from pinrepair? See the picture attached, credit to pinrepair.com. Nothing like the horror story of the grounding picture.

Exactly what other implication would anyone draw from you posting the crappy wiring picture other than that you are trying to say pinrepair's advice regarding wiring is suspect because of that picture? Why did you post it at that point in the thread as a direct response to 'good enough for pin repair [in relation to crimping 2 pins in one connector] is good enough for me'?

I don't do the 'agree to disagree' thing. That means that one person who feels they're right doesn't really have a response to a valid point from the other side. For instance, you could have certainly said "molex doesn't recommend crimping 2 wires into one pin" (Which AFAIK they don't). So your response instead of just saying you are wrong, could be "I feel this way because the manufacturer of the product doesn't recommend doing it, so that's good enough for me".

This I can accept if that is your reasoning. However, you chose to belittle my advice not with 'this is what the manufacturer recommends' (even though people are successful using it) with:

So, we know from your statement that smashing the wire crimp with a hammer is something you wouldn't claim was done properly. I wouldn't either.

How about your previous sentence, "of course it "works" to crimp two wires into one connector."

Do you claim as well that is not done properly? You could have said: "Of course it works to crimp two wires into one connector, however, I wouldn't claim that was done properly".

It's funny as well that when you post inflammatory responses, it's "ok" but when someone calls you out for doing so, it's "why are you angry".

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We agree! Now let's wonder why they don't recommend.

I know why they don't recommend. However, it works, and it works well. Not if you're in the habit on yanking off the connector by the wiring, but it works for what we use it for in pinball machines.

Technically, all the troubleshooting we tell people to do by swapping displays etc. and connectors, wears out the plating per Molex, 25 mate/unmate cycles. You can do that troubleshooting one problem.

Speaking of things you are not suppose to do, if i double wire a crimp I'll hit it with a touch of solder to make sure it goes no where after.

Now that I don't do. If I did it would only be a touch on the end so the rest of the wire doesn't get brittle/add a failure point at the end of the connector (exactly where you don't want it).

Correct, I just dab on the crimp end briefly to make sure its solid.

Is this the correct tilt bob for Back Hole?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-356

Or this one?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/MH30

Guess I’ll need the tilt clip too, to hold it on.

Quick question. Does anyone have the specs for the 4 head bolts used on Black Hole? The look like 3/8" threads but unsure of the length. They were missing on the game I got. Also are flat washers used with these?

Thanks!

Yes, they are standard ⅜"-16 bolts, but unsure of the length because mine are not original. You would only need them long enough to make it all the way through the nuts; anything longer is pointless. The washers are just flat washers, but they are larger diameter than standard flat washers. They are also not as large as fender washers. 1.25" O.D. Honestly, I am unsure if my washers are original but they match what I presume are the original indentations in the wood.

I should have some washers. Just hoped that someone may know the correct length of the bolts. Trying to avoid buying ones that I think wold work or a few samples to see what fits best. If the correct size is known and posted that would save time and maybe help others that may need them too.

1.5 inch bolt

Is Black Hole supposed to have either a single or double playfield prop rod? The game I have doesn’t have one.

This game does not have one.

Todd says "bring a two by four":

Thanks! My game is missing a few parts. Thought this was missing too.

Has anyone made their own? Would enjoy seeing home brew options that work well.

Best thing that works for me is an adjustable shower curtain rod. The rubber caps on the end keep it in place and prevent sliding. I use it all the time to hold playfields up...supporting them in the center instead of on the right edge. I can shorten and lengthen it for whatever machine I'm using it for.

cottonm4 Built his own playfield prop for his wide body Big Game. You could do something similar.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/big-game-club-the-safari-has-started?tq=Prop&tu=Cottonm4+

I am going to order a manual shortly along with the first batch of parts to get my game together. Powered it up this evening and there are some signs of life.

No sounds. Can someone post the preferred DIP switch settings for the sound board? Going to make sure those are set properly and I also have a spare sound board I can test with.

Sending you a direct message.

Note to future owners, dont try to disassemble the noisy spinning disc motor and clean unless you're ready to purchase another one. Not only are the plastic cogs likely broken or worn down, but the case it was assembled in is made of a soft material and the side of the tapped screw hole blew out when I loosened the screw.

My disc is in great shape, I just need to replace the motor assembly now. At least the new one should be much quieter.

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Maybe there's enough plastic left to drill and tap one screw size larger?

Hello Guys,
I am the new owner.
I have just updated the Black Hole in 80 A.
With a replacement Prom instead U2, U3 and the game prom
Purchased at Flipprojets
https://www.flipprojets.fr/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=61
And waiting for the 7 digits from The Boston Pinball Company
https://www.bostonpinballcompany.com/displays-S80A.htm
Thanks duffy
Got some 7 digits in 5v from a French dealer, with new power board and adapter.
Looks already nice
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Howdy. I'm here!

-Jason

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Can I ask if any of you guys with a Pascal board have had this problem. Every now and then my game will shut down showing SW-06 Bumper error. I was assuming it may be a faulty pop bumper board but have recently found another Black Hole owner that has the same shut down issue. Before I start chasing this I wondered if anyone else had encountered the same problem?

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SW-06 and/or game shutting down has nothing to do with pop bumper boards, because these do not have any connection/communication to the MPU. The pop bumpers are activated "directly" by the ball (ball impact -> switch closes -> corresponding pop bumper board fires power to solenoid). When a pop board fails, the pop bumper simply fail to activate, and the MPU never knows anything about it.

However, the scoring switches on the pop bumpers connect to the MPU.

(pop bumper activates -> scoring switch closes -> MPU adds points)

"SW-06" represents the scoring switches for all four pop bumpers on the top playfield. Make sure all of these switches are properly adjusted and none are stuck closed. Look for wire colors 855 (slate/green/green) and 666 (blue/blue/blue) to properly identify the scoring switch contacts.

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That's awesome information, thank you

Does anyone here know what the proper legs should be for this pin? Black,chrome? Size? TIA!

27"
crome
non-ribbed

AFAIK, all Gottlieb System 80 games have these same legs, right?

[edit 1]

NEVER MIND!
I felt like such a klutz looking through a cabinet of capacitors.
PinWiki says to use these to upgrade the pop bumper boards, but on my phone, the bullet points show up as periods, so it appeared to say that I needed:

.47uf/10V electrolytic capacitor (C4)
.4.7uf/10V capacitor (C3, tantalum or electrolytic, may be axial or radial)

(It's actually 47 & 4.7. Oy.)

I'm all set. Ready to upgrade the 6th & final pop bumper board.

[edit 2]

What sort of goofball does 2/3 of the pop bumper upgrade? Replace the C3 & C4 capacitors but don't replace CR1 with a jumper?
Better yet, what sort of goofball glances at the PCB, doesn't see a jumper, assumes it hasn't been modified, then hastily pulls off the updated C3 & C4 caps to replace them with the same exact components?

Thanks,
-Jason

Thank you Pete!

I seem to recall that Haunted House has longer legs in the rear.

Ok, thanks. So I dug into this further...

FWIW, according to this post, Black Hole has the same legs as Haunted House, which are 27" front and 31" rear.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/haunted-house-5#post-6913543

I thought Black Hole uses all 27” legs

Mine came with four 27" legs. Front levelers are all the way in, rears are only halfway up and I'm at almost 6 degrees and both main and lower playfields plays fast. 31" in back would seem like overkill on my game based on this. Both HH and BH manuals just say "bolt on the legs" but not sure if that indicates all four would/should be the same length or if that was just a standard instruction for all their manuals.

Also take into account that if you are cranking up the level on the main pf, you're slowing *down* the lower pf just as much.

Black Hole should have four 27 inch legs and Haunted House has two 27 in front and 2 31 in back.

I'm looking for a playfield glass for either BH or HH. If someone in the St. Louis area has one they can spare let me know. TIA

Correct.

Marco has both the blue and green windows in stock.

Thank you for sorting that out.

Thanks for that info, but meant the clear cabinet glass about 24x48 inches.

Was visiting my Brother over New years. Several years ago; I restored a black hole and gave it to him for Christmas.
We were playing it for most of the day and then decided to work on some issues it was having. Mostly mechanical due to the window. :S

Anyway; at some point - the game started refusing to boot properly and then refusing to credit up for a game. I broke out the oscilloscope and did some quick troubleshooting. The game is getting a good clock and fetching ROM code.

We think we isolated the problem to a coindoor harness. The symptom was that the game would boot if we left the coin door open about 10%. it would boot into attract mode with zero credits. If we opened the coindoor enough to credit the game; the system would lock up.
We both think that one or more of the wires - maybe surrounding Slam Switch being open.
A few times we had a credit the game would play the "tilt sound effect" as soon as the game was started.

Anyone seen this before? any other suggestions?

When it is 'locking up', are the displays strobing as you would normally see if the slam switch was open?