(Topic ID: 77057)

Black Hole Club... Members Only!

By mof

8 years ago


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There are 2,758 posts in this topic. You are on page 55 of 56.
#2701 14 days ago

Hi all, recently joined the club! I just didn't know how much fun Black Hole would be before getting one. I had played it quite a few times at the local arcade, but it's just an amazing game! I'm also just mesmerized by that gorgeous, unique backglass!

Anyhoo, it has all new boards: MPU, Driver, Pop Bumpers, Power Supply - Rottendog Sound Swemmer. Fully LEDed with new motor (runs silent).

Anything else I should consider doing? Mods (I saw a market add for some extra plastics), etc?

#2702 11 days ago

i made a wire for the gate , not the best wire ever but it works.
is the ball supposed to be stopped by the coil mech thing here when it passes under the wire?

20220922_191743 (resized).jpg
#2703 10 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

is the ball supposed to be stopped by the coil mech thing here when it passes under the wire?

Take off the apron on the upper playfield. It has exactly the same trough mechanism - you can see there how it works for reference.

Picture below from this link:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-hole-club-members-only/page/23#post-3558317

BlackKnight_Upper_Trough.jpg

#2704 10 days ago

okay i see how it works now , looks it its supposed to block the ball until the coil activates releasing the ball .

#2705 10 days ago

i got the pop bumper socket with centering bracket and fit well without being too tall . only thing is does polarity matter on wedge sockets.?
want to make sure i put the right wires on each end.

#2706 8 days ago

okay , i got everything wired up it turned it on , but it does not boot up all the way. it lits "tilt" on the backglass when i turn it on but no lights on playfield or no flipper power. the wire gate that catches the ball from the outline keeps trying to fire. the display says "six" on it.

#2707 8 days ago

let me know if this switch is set up right. its for the ball save gate in the outlane.
someone help me please.

IMG_4304 (resized).JPG
#2708 8 days ago

First you need to fix the tilt condition. Check your bob for being stuck and the slam switches. There is a tilt relay that may be stuck on or improperly adjusted on the back rear (I think, not sure) of the playfield next to the game over relay.

#2709 8 days ago

how can i tell if the tilt relay is not set right?

IMG_4305 (resized).JPGIMG_4306 (resized).JPGIMG_4307 (resized).JPG
#2710 7 days ago

I don't know offhand which are supposed to be NO/NC. Make sure they're at least changing when it activates. But if it's activating when it's not supposed to it's likely an issue with your slam, roll, or bob tilts.

#2711 7 days ago

i checked all those , none of those are touching , expect for the door one which his supposed to be closed .

#2712 7 days ago

the coils in the outhole work and will seems to start a game with sound for a few seconds but no other coils or gi lights work.
and the displays act glitchy too.

#2713 7 days ago

only backbox lights up and tilt lights on , is that what's could also cause the score displays to glitch? this pinball has the most stubborn i have ever worked on , i would hate to give up when i have already gotten this far. just random stuff on displays.
somebody please tell me what to check , because i don't have any idea.

IMG_4311 (resized).JPG

#2714 7 days ago

Coin door switches being grounded can cause all kinds of issues. Try removing your coin mechs and making sure they're clear. Any acid damage on the mpu?

#2715 7 days ago

no acid damage on mpu but its also a reproduction mpu . it came with it when i got the pinball so not sure how old it is.
i will check the coin door . remove coin mechs and the wires?

#2716 7 days ago

i have one coin mech in mine that's connected , should it discount it? and the wires?

IMG_4315 (resized).JPG
#2717 7 days ago

Just remove the mech and ensure none of the leaf switches are contacting any metal anywhere. Mine had the lockout coil wire contacting one of the coin switch leafs and it caused all kinds of wacky issues.

#2718 7 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

no acid damage on mpu but its also a reproduction mpu . it came with it when i got the pinball so not sure how old it is.
i will check the coin door . remove coin mechs and the wires?

What flavor of reproduction board? Some of them aren't.... great.

Your tilt relay is not causing this.... this is an output device.... connected to a solenoid driver.
Your gate on the PF is not causing this... again, an output device (connected to a lamp driver....)

It's not booting, or its booting and there are multiple issues with its RIOTs/support chips. The display drivers seem especially vulnerable.

What is the power supply? The repro boards are sensistive to voltage. Some of them aren't great, either.

What about the connectors? Been repinned?

Without other boards to swap in I'd send it in for repair, or just buy another reproduction or known working board.

#2719 7 days ago

the connectors have not been repined. it did look t the a3 j3 plug and one of the pins is broken . it is labeled as pin 2 in the the manual and its function is L43. could even one pin cause an issue like this?

#2720 7 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

the connectors have not repined. it did look t the a3 j3 plug and one of the pins is broken . it is labeled as pin 2 in the the manual and its function is L43. could even one pin cause an issue like this?

not that pin. It's an output for lamp 43.

#2721 7 days ago

here the mpu board . it does not a have a name on it. also some extra port that are not used.

IMG_4318 (resized).JPG

#2722 7 days ago

looks similar to a niwumpf although yours have more things 'populated'

http://www.ni-wumpf.com/System80CPU.html

contact them as any generic system 80 mpu board troubleshooting is going to be completely different... they don't use the original software like the other replacement boards (swemmer, rottendog) do.

#2723 7 days ago

Black Hole now on location at Final Gravity in Richmond, VA. 50c a play. Thanks to yall for the help, and PinballDr for sending me a price card!!

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#2724 6 days ago

good news , i noticed that some of pins bent in were not making contact on the a3-j1 and the a1 j4 connectors between the driver board and the mpu so i bent them out a bit and now it no longer tilts on boot . so it will kind of play now as the flippers work . some other bulbs did come on playfield but there still some bulbs and some switches not working yet. some sounds working but no continuous background sound.
after looking at the a3 j3 plug closely, i noticed it had some broken pins and pins that were bent in and not not making contact . how do i repalce the pins in these and what tools do i need?

IMG_4321 (resized).jpgIMG_4322 (resized).JPG

#2725 6 days ago

They make repros for that connector sitch might be easier. If not you'll need an extractor, crimper, wire stripper, and terminals. You'll probably have better luck and faster response googling some of the more generic stuff like this. Pinwiki is a good resource too.

#2726 6 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

how do i repalce the pins in these and what tools do i need?

This is the one with the obsolete pins that are impossible to find. Molex KK series 4366.

Molex 08-03-0304 (singles) or 08-03-0303 (on strips), Qty 66 for these two connector housings.

36d069365ea4496175de8b13f16ff363024184b8 (resized).jpg

1. You can get a kit from Docent Electronics (Order # CAGS5-A1J4-K) that contains all of these wires with pins already crimped on the ends and you simply replace them one by one reusing your plastic housings. Based on the wire colors, it looks like yours was already done using a Docent kit. Maybe do it again just replacing the broken ones and keeping the rest for spares.

https://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm

2. There are knockoff Molex pins you can get from just one guy on eBay (equipment99.com). A little less expensive than Docent, but a little more work to crimp them on yourself.

ebay.com link: itm

3. NOS (new old stock) of the obsolete Molex pins from eBay and other vendors. Twice the cost of option 1 and 2 above.

-------------

If you crimp, you'll need a crimper tool that does the double crimp. In any case, you'll need a tiny flat-blade screwdriver, safety pin, or a suitable pin removal tool; whichever works.

See: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/General#Pin_Crimping_Tools

I bought this one and it takes a little practice to figure out the size since the numbers on the tool are marked in square mm. If you can convert mm squared to your wire gauge, then you're golden.

amazon.com link »

#2727 6 days ago

i found the cpu board my black hole uses.
i just need make sure the switch setting are correct but it does not have all those dip switches like the original board.
it was made in 2005 and it uses a serial port to change setting which my computer is too new to have a serial port. maybe i should get a rottendog mpu ?. it might fix those glitchy displays problems i am having

http://ni-wumpf.com/Legacy/System80CPU.html

#2728 6 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

i found the cpu board my black hole uses.
i just need make sure the switch setting are correct but it does not have all those dip switches like the original board.
it was made in 2005 and it uses a serial port to change setting which my computer is too new to have a serial port. maybe i should get a rottendog mpu ?. it might fix those glitchy displays problems i am having
http://ni-wumpf.com/Legacy/System80CPU.html

That is really an odd one. Haven't seen that particular board before. If you need a Serial port you can get one of the USB to Serial converters (based on the real FTDI chip) and you should be able to use that with one of the free Windows serial terminal packages to talk to it.

#2729 6 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

i found the cpu board my black hole uses.
i just need make sure the switch setting are correct but it does not have all those dip switches like the original board.
it was made in 2005 and it uses a serial port to change setting which my computer is too new to have a serial port. maybe i should get a rottendog mpu ?. it might fix those glitchy displays problems i am having
http://ni-wumpf.com/Legacy/System80CPU.html

If it were me, I'd slow down, refer to PinWiki, get those loose/broken pins replaced first; and then do some logical and methodical troubleshooting before blindly blasting it with part$.

Also, do some Googling and try to locate the "B.H.H.H.C. Black Hole/Haunted House, Gottlieb System 80 Club of America" repair guide by The Pinball Lizard, Joel Cook and Vickie Huisenga. There is a ton of good troubleshooting information in this PDF. Read it cover to cover in addition to referring to PinWiki.

#2730 6 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

good news , i noticed that some of pins bent in were not making contact on the a3-j1 and the a1 j4 connectors between the driver board and the mpu so i bent them out a bit and now it no longer tilts on boot . so it will kind of play now as the flippers work . some other bulbs did come on playfield but there still some bulbs and some switches not working yet. some sounds working but no continuous background sound.
after looking at the a3 j3 plug closely, i noticed it had some broken pins and pins that were bent in and not not making contact . how do i repalce the pins in these and what tools do i need?
[quoted image][quoted image]

These are the ones I always use, 19 cents each. https://www.arcadeshop.com/i/475/molex-pin-snap-in-crimp.htm

#2731 6 days ago

They're only rated for smaller wire sizes 22-26. The obsolete pins are rated for larger wire sizes 18-24.

Also, I'm not so sure about Molex series 4573 being physically interchangeable with 4366. Otherwise, the rest of us wouldn't be paying more for the Docent kits, OEMs, and knockoffs.

#2732 5 days ago

I recommend the Pascal board instead - plus, it replaces three boards, and removes all these interconnectivity issues between boards. And it has the most awesome troubleshooting menus.

#2733 5 days ago

i swapped the lower playfield score display with the lower right and the displays show different messed up text then it did before.
could it be the 2 ic chips have failed on these displays?.i did swap the other displays again , each time it did show something different but not as much difference as these displays . it would seem to indicate be that the displays themselves are messed up but how could all the display be messed up?

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#2734 5 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

... but how could all the display be messed up?

Since all are controlled by MPU, the MPU is probably at the root. But it's just a guess since condition of displays, connectors, etc. are all unknown.

Do you have a logic probe or digital meter? Do you have the schematics? Did you look at the display section of PinWiki?

#2735 5 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

They're only rated for smaller wire sizes 22-26. The obsolete pins are rated for larger wire sizes 18-24.
Also, I'm not so sure about Molex series 4573 being physically interchangeable with 4366. Otherwise, the rest of us wouldn't be paying more for the Docent kits, OEMs, and knockoffs.

Used them in all my System 80 games, on ALL edge connectors. And on some I used 18 gauge wire. Got a set of MPU to Driver replacement wires with crimps from DOCENT and half of the wires pulled out of the crimps. GARBAGE, and I let him know. After that, I do all of my own.

#2736 3 days ago

good news. i got most of it working except for the displays . i got the sound to work correctly after flipping the switches the sound board.
and all most of coils work and everything on lower playfield is working. the only issue besides the displays is when you boot it up it kicks a ball out into the plunger. likely to do with those connectors which i will get fixed soon.

#2737 3 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

the only issue...is when you boot it up it kicks a ball out into the plunger. likely to do with those connectors which i will get fixed soon.

Report back if you resolve this. My TX Sector also does this on boot-up, and I've never had it on any other System 80 or 80B.

#2738 3 days ago

despite kicking a ball out into the plunger on boot , it works normal during gameplay .

#2739 3 days ago

I am having the same issue, with the displays, but with a PASCAL board installed. All the displays show garbage. The game works great and everything is as normal. I repinned the two (2) display connectors going to the MPU.

#2740 2 days ago

for the ball releasing into the plunger on boot , i found some info on what is likely causing the issue.
its called a Power on "Thunk" when this happens. and the fix is not that simple.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Power_on_.22Thunk.22

i also found some info on testing the udn6116 chips on the displays with a multimeter.
i have tested my displays and got reading that indicate that some of the pins on some of the the udn6116 chips the don't work.
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/#display

#2741 2 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

for the ball releasing into the plunger on boot , i found some info on what is likely causing the issue.
its called a Power on "Thunk" when this happens. and the fix is not that simple.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Power_on_.22Thunk.22

Yeah, that is a major modification. Much simpler to just turn the machine on and shoot the ball that pops out upon power-on.

#2742 2 days ago

i have ordered some new udn6116 chips to put in the displays.
so once those arrive i will put them in and see if it fixes anything.

#2743 2 days ago

where can i get a replacement 24 pin connector housing?

#2744 2 days ago

I eliminated my power thunk using the same model of reset generator chip that's used to replace the MPU reset section. It was not difficult to do. If you only care about the ball popping out, you would just need to attach the mod to the one driver chip that controls that output. Somewhat simpler and at a later date you can always add jumpers to the other output chips as needed.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Power_on_.22Thunk.22

Quoted from Matthew2015:

where can i get a replacement 24 pin connector housing?

Docent has nearly every single connector housing you could need for System 80. Their style contains the pins permanently in the housing and there are lugs for soldering the wires. I prefer to re-pin the originals, but if that's not possible, Docent has this solution.

https://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/system%2080.htm

Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 12.24.03 PM (resized).png

#2745 2 days ago

i don't think i can repin the original . looks like someone tried already and did a bad job .
the connectors housing been melted and everything. that why i want to get a new connector housing.
these is likely what is causing displays problems. i tested the connections with a multimeter and there is at least a couple of pins that are not making contact with the soldered wire.

361f4abc930d8e18f3b1b611b0d2fde1271887c6 (resized).jpg

#2746 2 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

i don't think i can repin the original . looks like someone tried already and did a bad job .
the connectors housing been melted and everything. that why i want to get a new connector housing.

Just wow! That is (or was!) a Docent connector... but looks like a one-armed blind man tried soldering it with a propane torch. Ironically, some of the heat shrink tubing isn't even fully shrunk!

Again, wow!!

I agree... the only option here is clipping it off and starting fresh. A good hot soldering iron with a medium/small tip, quality flux, and decent small diameter solder. Just touching the iron for a second or two should be enough to make the connection. Any smell of melting plastic and you're doing it wrong.

#2747 2 days ago

yes it is in very bad shape and needs to be replaced for sure , one of the wires has already fallen off it . so i will order a new one from docent electronics .
but never ordered from docent electronics before. it looks like you can't place an order on their website. i see the parts on there
but there no " add to cart" or anything . is there another place to get this part?

IMG_4333 (resized).jpg

#2748 2 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

yes it is in very bad shape and needs to be replaced for sure , one of the wires has already fallen off it . so i will order a new one from docent electronics .
but never ordered from docent electronics before. it looks like you can't place an order on their website. i see the parts on there
but there no " add to cart" or anything . is there another place to get this part?
[quoted image]

I think you have to email them.

#2749 2 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

... never ordered from docent electronics before. it looks like you can't place an order on their website. i see the parts on there
but there no " add to cart" or anything .

I have ordered from them before. Good people. The owner is retired but answers emails and his daughter fills orders. You email them with a list of parts... they respond with the total price plus shipping. Then you have to send them a USPS money order. They confirm and ship as soon as money order is received.

#2750 2 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2015:

yes it is in very bad shape and needs to be replaced for sure , one of the wires has already fallen off it . so i will order a new one from docent electronics .
but never ordered from docent electronics before. it looks like you can't place an order on their website. i see the parts on there
but there no " add to cart" or anything . is there another place to get this part?
[quoted image]

Which connectors are you looking for? I have several original connectors, that I have salvaged from junked games, and can take a look for you.

Let me know.

Ken

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