What kill switch? say more!

I believe the LISY free play is not as you would intuitively think. You have to press and hold the start button for a few seconds. It's then supposed to add a credit then start a game, or something like that.
Its not just "free play" and go.

Jeff

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-lisy-a-replacement-mpu-for-gottlieb-bally-amp-stern/page/10#post-6260869 is the active lisy thread.

They also have a dip switch to disable the slam switches which you should probably have on just in case.

The easiest way to debug this would be to get on the lisy wifi and then use its web switch test to make sure your switched all work

On the coin door there is a slam switch. Gottlieb’s need to be closed while others do open. Jumper that closed and see if that helps.

thanks for the help guys. I've done all you've said already after reading the LISY docs, but have not yet set up the web based diag tool yet. i'll do that tonight and see if that provides any insight.

I am working on my sound board and want to make a backup of my ROMs before messing with it. I have a ROM burner and extra chips (have burned ROMs before) Does anyone know a procedure to get the data off the original ROMs? Or is there an easier way? Seems no downloads are available due to copyright.

Just for reference: in a recent post I made about the lower pf randomly "shutting down" mid-game. Adjusting the gap for the lower outhole and trough switches a bit wider indeed seems to have fixed it (they were apparently vibrating closed intermittenly, making the game think the ball had drained). I'm glad it was that simple after all!

I'm driving from DC to Richmond, VA this afternoon... if anyone is interested in this playfield, could meet along the route.

As per the Pinwiki recommendation that the tube upkicker 6 & 1/4 fuse be changed to 2 & 1/2, I made that change a couple of weeks ago and today it blew. Though I do have a Williams coil in mine that by the coil windings is only slightly more powerful than the original Gtb one, I've never had any issue with the kicker before in 20 years. Have never even blown any fuse in the game before. So just a note that 2 1/2 might be borderline if using the original coil or little bit stronger one. On the copy of the schematics I downloaded, whoever had scribbled things on it here and there seemed like perhaps they had the same issue. Original '6 1/4' is crossed out and they wrote '2 1/2', then crossed that out and made it '5'. I've replaced the blown one with a 4 amp to split the difference. I didn't have any 3 amp fuses but maybe one of those would "make it".

Perhaps it is related to which under-pf driver transistor is installed. Gottlieb recommended changing 2N5875s to 2N5879s for early-run BHs but with no explanation. All three of my under pf transistors are MJ15016s and my serial number is within their range where it would have the 2N5875s. But I've never had to replace any of them and can't really find what the equivalency is between the 2Ns and the MJ.

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Price drop

I would avoid doing any color rubbers. The orange ones that most people install looks cheesy as all get out, and there is already enough blue on the playfield to warrant blue rubbers. Black ones are great, but even black Titans still get the PF dirtier than it needs.

I highly recommend the clear Titan rubbers for this theme. They look great, help out with the general GI of the game (as they are slightly translucent) and then go crazy with your flipper rubber color as an accent.

Just my two cents from someone who has a BFA with a speciality in color science (albeit in light and not pigment but you get the gist).

It was originally built with white rings made out of regular rubber so that's what I put on mine. I'm weird that way.

Nothing weird about that at all. Currently that's what I have on my Black Hole because I'm waiting to get the rest of my PF parts in line before I do another re-shop of it now that I know what I'm doing.

Having seen a lot of black holes, white or transparent look best imo

And at the time it was made the only colors available were white or black and only regular rubber....

Doesn't mean they wouldn't have if they could have. Ive been thinking about experimenting with the glow rubbers and some UV bulbs. Think it might look cool.

What about other cosmetic mods? Specifically, I’d like to make something happen lightwise with the tube when the ball is coming up from the lower playfield. Anybody do anything like that?

I've seen someone who hooked up blue and red lights to shine along the tube and illuminate it, tied on to the gate relay so it'd be red if you were gonna drain

I've seen the lit tubes before but never heard about having it change colors for status, good idea. But I'd go with green and red. Does the light have to shine into the edge of the bottom of the tube for it to work?

Ok I’m in! What’s needed, where do I get the supplies and how do you do it?

You could just add the lamp wires for the two colored LEDs to the switch lugs on the gate relay as mentioned, it already alternates the two yellow arrow lamps down there. I'm thinking you might need to mount the two LEDs on the lower playfield to point at the bottom of the tube for the fiberoptic effect, but maybe just mounting the LEDs under the main playfield close by the gate there at a high angle towards the top of the tube might work? If it did it would save running the long wires down below.

I have white on mine. With black silicone acorn nuts holding plastics on.

And now we do have color rubbers available and what do 98% of games that come off the line with?

White or black.

If there was a poll for "What color looks the most ridiculous and out of place on Black Hole?" I would definitely vote for Cheetos Orange. If I put those on my game the MPU board would try to commit suicide.

Might do that regardless of what color rubbers you put on it.

Satanic Red could work for color if only because this game is pure evil - especially when the right gate flicks your ball out toward its death.

I hate when that happens. Somebody could probably come up with a 'fix' that would lock the gate when it's activated. Boost up the relay magnet as much as one could given it's powered by a lamp circuit, or something else.. but it wouldn't be the same. XD

You'd need a way to sense that the gate was closed and then was opened. At least when it happens you learn to not hold the flipper up like that again.

There are unused switches that could be wired in to sense this and the software changed - could activate it on a timer and then close it again. Heck probably don't even need to mod the software, could come up with a pop bumper driver board mod to do it, gate opens itself, pop bumper 'fires' the gate solenoid for whatever time you hardwire onto it, then kills the alternate ground provided by the pbdb. If the gate is supposed to be open it wouldn't make a bit of difference since the pbdb is a one-shot deal, and the gate solenoid wouldn't burn out anyway.

Not sure how the game open gate activation would affect it though, since it's driven by the lamp driver instead of the killed solenoid circuit on the game over relay.

Sadly...It seems I cannot learn this... always forgetting or hoping for a different outcome. insanity.

If the wireform gate were only about 1/4" longer, the ball could still push it open but it wouldn't be able to slip between it and the tube exit gate. So that would be a fix, solder a little extension onto the end of the gate. Or removing the right screw on the tube exit gate and rotating that end down the side rail about a half inch, or repositioning the whole gate down a half inch, that would stop it too.
Or since the tube exit gate is just a single piece of wire and it would be pretty easy to make one, make a new longer one that extends another 1/2" down the channel, bent upward a little where it rests at the bracket so the end where the the balls hit it is still at the correct height.
That is if somebody just can't live with it, but I can. Even if Gottlieb didn't do this on purpose it's fun to think they did

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Clever!

I dunno, I always assumed it was purposely designed that way. Seems bad juju to even think about taking it out

I'm more frustrated when I've earned that gate open (& when coming back up from the lower field) I get a gate jumper that drains.
I also get some that jump when the gate is closed...so...I guess I can't complain.

Sounds like your getting too much of a kick. The flipper coil + EOS kicker modification solves that issue nicely.

(Or your tube might be sitting a tad low and the ball jumps up on the lip of the playfield.)

Make sure you have the correct coil on the kicker, or at least one that is not wound stronger. You can tweak the bracket with the rubber stop on it forward a little too or put a taller rubber stop on it to reduce the stroke a little. Mine is strong and makes it up 100% of the time but has never hopped the gate.

Email cliffy and ask for Steve's Black hole kicker bracket. It's not on the website, but he makes them. It adds an EOS switch and you add a regular flipper coil to it so you can adjust the strength. Mine used to do the same thing till I added taht.

Has anyone made some custom rule cards and free play cards for Black Hole?

Which flippers are dead - the top or bottom ones ?
And is it the bottom lights or top lights that are out ?

If the rollover switch at the back of the spinner lane doesn't register, the ball will just drop down there without activating the lower flippers or lower lights and will be kicked back up, as you are seeing. Try activating that switch by hand and see if it is working or just needs cleaning. However the persistent sound and relay clicking sound strange so maybe that isn't the problem. There will be various things clicking between when the ball drains into the lower pf trough and is eventually kicked back up.

What does the 'persistent sound' actually sound like, the background sound or the lower pf 'blowing wind' sound or (?)

When ball enters lower pf, do the upper playfield lights turn off like they are supposed to?

Finally got her working pretty well.

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As far as sounds go...have you tried cleaning & reseating the connector on the sound board? I recently had a similar issue on Haunted House where it suddenly began playing the wrong sounds and it was just a dirty connector.

If there are removable eproms on the board. Take them out & clean the legs.

has Anyone here sent their BH to HEP for a restore?