You could always buy a working one....

Most of the issues in Black Hole are either not having the ground mods done, or bad edge connectors. Honestly, if something isnt working right and its on an edge connector, the first thing I do is replace it before I start troubleshooting. After that, there are some weird things, but pretty typical stuff. Its unfortunate Steve isnt alive anymore, he was the master at fixing System 80's. Its too bad he didnt make some kind of book! Anyways, its a great fast fun game. People are pretty good at helping out when there is an issue IMHO. Don't let the whole system80 thing get to you.

There is one at Spinners in Frederick Maryland if you want to relive your youth for an afternoon.

https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/11124-spinners-pinball-arcade-frederick-md

Yay, turns out it was just the Z21 7448 after all! Replaced it and all displays work just like they should with no other repairs needed (Looks like one of those displays also has a busted filament wire but I'll move that to P4, and it's at least functional otherwise).

Have to say that little $20 40- and 74-series logic chip tester I got off ebay just paid for itself: I didn't expect to get a bad batch of 7448's, but glad to confirm, otherwise there's no telling how long I'd have been frustrated here!

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0ipEwBSs9zi9EFgp1mH5dYPiA#Los_Altos
I am trying to figure if these are still the wrong sounds. It seems there is one sound it plays often and I don’t remember it being there.

ebay.com link: New IC Tester Digital Meter 74 40 45 Series lC Logic Gate Tester

Seems a few bucks more now but that's the exact link I used earlier this year. Took about a month to arrive. I already had a 9V power supply but I think you can select an option to include one if you don't. There may be "better" ones out there, but it seems to work so far and heck, if all it ever did right for me was ID those bad "new" chips I consider that a win.

You know those "weird place your ball got stuck" threads you can't be bothered to post in......never had this happen to any machine before!

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Just picked one up that had been in a home for the last 38 years. Problem is when I turn it on, it boots but have all 00000s in the displays (the zero's are there, the pic didn't catch them), won't take a credit or put the balls in the trough, no coil power. Any ideas where I can start? Im not very familiar with Gottlieb's. Thanks Mike Paris

IMG_3998 (resized).jpg

Sorry, its not letting me turn the photo for some reason. Mike

Hey Mike
Check the Slam Switch on the coin door.

Will do

That is the slam switch. Jumper it closed and things should work. I see this is your first Gottlieb. If this were a Bally that switch would be open. Gottlieb did the exact opposite a lot of the time.

If the display zeroes are also doing a horrible fast strobing it definitely sounds like the slam switch. If they are solidly lit, could be something else.

I love that one because it's the only place that could happen. And you couldn't recreate it manually even if you tried, it would simply have to happen... and it almost never would. Never happened on mine in 20+ years.

So my resurrected BH has been reasonably reliable for the past few weeks and I've even managed to roll the score; multiball is fun as heck! But last few days it's done something weird at random:

-When the lower PF is activated, at some point it might suddenly cut out (flippers go dead, lights off) which of course causes the ball to drain. The game announces the appropriate re-entry callout and otherwise proceeds as normal. You can continue playing as if nothing had happened. You might go right back down to the lower pf and not experience this again, for a few more games... or it might happen again immediately.

There doesn't seem to be a specific triggering cause or event. And since it's random (within 20 seconds, or 5 minutes, or never at all?) it doesn't seem to be a hard-fault state either.

I wondered if maybe the lower pf lane / tube switch gaps were a bit too close and vibrating closed, thus triggering the game into thinking the ball had drained. So I checked that and yeah, maybe the lane switch was a bit close. Maybe... but I've not had time to play again yet so before I go assuring myself that was the issue, is there anything else that could sporadically cause this?

Thanks guys, got it up and running, it was the slam switch. Game works great, the only problem I'm having is I have voice and gameplay sounds, but no background sound. I have read through a ton of posts, reseated all connectors, pulled and resat the sound board chips, tried all the dips switch settings (hopefully did them right) and nothing? Any ideas? anyone have a pic of their dip switch settings on the sound board and driver board? Thanks Mike

Edge connectors are awful. Remove the cables on the bottom of the MPU and take a picture of the pins to share with the group. Don’t worry about the MPU to Driver board cable at this time. That is a different beast altogether. Just worry about the two cables to the left of it. My guess is the pins are shot. If it isn’t that, something has died on the sound card (most likely capacitors).

Here's how mine is set with speech enabled and background sound 'on'. Sw 1,2,7 & 8 should be off. 3 & 4 are for different time interval for attract speech, off/off disables it. 5 is background enabled, 6 is all speech enabled.

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I would start investigating around the Lower (L) Relay. The relay will control everything down below, the lower GI (both low and high voltage), pop bumpers, kickers, and flippers. It's possible the relay is malfunctioning and can't hold anymore. It's also possible the drive transistor is getting flaky. It is driven by lamp #17. The transistor is Q18 on the schematics.

Also tone out your dip switches. Gottliebs are famous for failure. Just make sure on is really on and off is really off. You do that by pulling out the board and toning out the solder pads for the switches.

Thank you! That sounds appropriately complex for Sys80 debug, as the flipside of a simple fix I played a good bit last night and didn't get the lower-pf death so maybe it was the switch gap after all... but if it happens again I know where I'll look. Thanks again.

Anyone know a vendor that stocks the black hole play field glass?

I didn’t see it at PBL or Marco.

48-3/8 X 24-5/8 inches, 3/16 inch

Just order a sheet at your local glass shop. Just remember to get it tempered and not stamped.

That was my backup plan.
Thanks

MARCO does have it..........https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/GTBSYS80-W

Thanks

Help! I just finished bringing my Black Hole back from the dead, but I’m left with one nagging issue.

The game powers up into attract mode with no problem, but when I press the button to start a game it just restarts and goes back into attract mode. The reset happens right after resetting the 4-target (HOLE) bank and before resetting the 5-target (BLACK) bank. If I leave the game “warm-up” for 3-5 minutes it works fine.

I can also get it to work if I disconnect the ground wire to Solenoid 2 (the 5-target bank) at A3J4-10, or if I disconnect the sound/speech board.

All the self-tests run fine. I have re-pinned every board edge connector and the molex plug connecting the 5-target bank. I have replaced all the electrolytic caps on all the boards. Thinking I must have a flaky chip somewhere in the Solenoid 2 circuitry I started working my way back and ended up replacing every transistor and IC in the circuit back to and including the RIOT chip at U6. I also replaced the diodes on all four drop-target coils for good measure. I don’t have another sound/speech board to swap out to see if it’s the culprit.

The CPU did have some battery damage which I was able to repair with minimal component replacement and without losing any traces. Ground mods were also done.

Does anyone here have any ideas? I’ve searched Pinside and the rest of the web, but I can’t find any discussion of this issue. Thanks in advance.

(I have also cross-posted this on the SYS80 thread)

Did you also replace the filter capacitors in the bottom of the cabinet?

Thanks. I should have mentioned that.

I did replace the orange filter cap with the recommended 10,000uf 25v replacement. I also rebuilt the power supply using the recommenced modifications in Clay's guide (except I did not replace the trim pot or the regulator chip). J1, J2, and J3 were all upgraded to square pins and Trifurcon connectors.

Well it sounds like a heat issue. I would focus on the power supply and driver board. Those two have the most drastic heat change during operation. Your weak component is likely something on those two boards. What you really need is a second System 80. That makes troubleshooting a snap.

So even when game is stone-ass cold, powering up and immediately running the solenoid test doesn't do anything goofy when the target bank(s) fire?

When you turn it on cold does the 'coin up' sound work, and the 'start' sound works when you start a game (before it resets to attract mode)?

Yep. Stone-ass cold the solenoid test completes as expected. Wait the 60 seconds for the game to recycle into attract mode and insert a coin, and the 'coin up' sound works. Press the start button, and the 'start' sound works....and then the game resets right before firing solenoid 2.

If only they weren't such a beast to get downstairs!

Seriously, I think the sound/speech board has to be involved somehow because when I disconnect it the game starts up fine, stone cold. I just can't figure out the connection with the solenoid ground for solenoid 2. As far as I can see the only components common to both are U6 and Z27 on the CPU board, and I have replaced both of those.

Are your power supply board voltages all excellent?
Maybe one of the two lower playfield banks are involved? Each fires at what looks to be in perfect unison with one of the two banks on top when game is started. Diagonally... 5 bank resets at same time as 3 bank below, and the 4 above with the four below. Perhaps whatever it is is only showing up with the power draw from two banks firing simultaneously which happens at game start but not in the solenoid test. And doesn't show up when you disconnect the 5 bank first because of the reduced draw during game start reset(?) Maybe the 3 bank or its circuit has an issue. And maybe the speech board disconnected is reducing the power drain just enough to let the cold game start 'get away with it' for those first 5 minutes. I mean the whole thing seems to be just on the borderline till it warms up a little bit. I dunno, I'm just throwing something out to see if it sticks.

Thank you Mad_Dog and frenchmarky. I appreciate the input.

Ok, if I disconnect either the 5-bank or the 3-bank or the sound card everything starts up fine. With all three connected I can't start up until something somewhere warms up. Which I guess points back to my "rebuilt" power supply not being able to handle the draw when cold. I didn't replace the regulator chip. If I freeze this chip after the game warms up I can re-introduce the problem. So I'm going to order a new chip and I'll let you know how it goes.

And if all else fails, I've had great luck with the PSU from Gulf Pinball if you choose to go that route.

Yay! That's gotta be it.

Hey guys.
Picked up a project in progress.

Boots up but won’t start a game with the coin door button. It’s set to free play.

Does this pinout for a1-j5 look right? Looking at the manual it seems wrong. Return should be in position 1 and I don’t think it is.

My first sys 80...be gentle.

image (resized).jpg

I’m being sucked in! Have both the playfields off my project Black Hole getting ready for clear. I did a decent amount of work on the upper playfield, 2 of the 3 astronauts had areas down to bare wood. Those were fun to paint let me tell ya! Also repainted the target arrows and did a little color fade for fun. Lastly I’ve had to repaint several of the asteroids and a large section of space just above the window. A few touch ups here and there and it should be close to ready for clear. I included a pic of one of the astronauts during the painting process. I covered the bare wood in grey primer and then traced the artwork onto the playfield as best I could using a printed out image of the art that should be there. I'm pretty happy with how it came out.

Lower playfield was depopulated last weekend and went through the magic eraser treatment. I just taped and sprayed the white areas, they were yellowed beyond repair. As you can see there are a few wear areas to touch up near the pops. Hopefully I’ll get them to the clear coat guy this weekend!

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Looking at some photos I have on hand from mine when I picked it up, they do seem to be correct. When you say "set to free play" what method have you used to do so?

My thought as well. No true free play on OEM System 80 boards.

PO put a LISY board in. So it’s set to free play via the DIP switches.

Might be in over my head on this one.

Put a doorbell in. Haha.

So it goes into attract mode after power up?

Does coining up with the coin switches work? Then will it start a game? If not, does the credit button register? Start diagnostic test with the inner door button, then press the credit button - that should advance the diag test display # to '16', showing that button is at least registering.

Can't help ya there unfortunately although those LISY boards have quite the diagnostic back end, so you might have better luck posting in one of the LISY threads. I've never used one of those boards and have no idea how they affect the start sequence and coin-up/ect.

Thanks for your help and questions...

I think it goes into attract mode successfully. Triggering the coin leaf switches has no effect on anything, whether i boot up in free play or not. I did ring out the wires from the start button back to the a1-j5 connector successfully, and the coin switches, so the wires and connectors seem to be ok.

Then will it start a game? If not, does the credit button register?

no to both of these.

Start diagnostic test with the inner door button, then press the credit button - that should advance the diag test display # to '16', showing that button is at least registering.

little red momentary push button has no effect.

It's almost like nothing on the coin door is making its way to the MPU, but the wires test successfully for continuity. I'm really scratching my head on this one. Maybe i'll post a video so you guys can confirm i'm not losing my mind.

thanks...LISY threads are super quiet...maybe I just haven't found the right one yet

I’m pretty good with OEM Gottlieb stuff. Inserting the aftermarket board pretty much takes me out of the game. The LISY board seems to have a very simplistic design. Maybe the kill switch on the door or playfield is still an issue. Have you tried to jumped them closed. OEM boards won’t start a game if those two switches are open.