Check the fuse F17 under the lower playfield
Check the Q5 transistor under the lower playfield
Check connector A9J8/P8-2
Check connector A3J3-22
Check transistor Q15 on the driver board

Steve

TNT states many times that only mod needed is to add one ground wire on the inter connect cable.
What do you think Steve ?

I still have original coil for kick up never a problem. And TNT also claims there was a service bulletin to put something different in ???? Stronger coil . I have never needed. I have never seen it not shoot a ball up the tube.

My black hole video

My playing sux!

Take a look at this video on YouTube:

Nice! Your playfield still looks good, too. If you want to keep it that way, please get rid of those godawful non-sticky mylar rings around your pop bumpers! They will eat your playfield alive.

I feel he's wrong on that one and choose to make my game more solid. The mods to the A4-A1 interconnect need to be done for a better 5VDC and ground connection between the CPU and driver boards. That's why the pads are there in the first place, cost cutting by the bean counters is what I've heard for the reason they're not used. The ground mods to the driver boards need to be done to insure a stable grounding system for the coil drive transistors.

Some BH's work well with the ball lift kicker the was it was from the factory. For me, far as the ball lift kicker coil goes, a must is the pull up resistor on that under playfield transistor (and all others). The schematic calls for a A-4893 (2.1 ohms) coil for that use, this is the strongest single coil Gottlieb makes. However, I use a A-20095 flipper coil with added EOS switch since the power coil inside is around 1.55 ohms (a little stronger). That way, I can adjust the strength of the kick with the EOS switch (contacts open early = weaker, open late = stronger). It's nice to see the ball roll up that tube clean without it beating up on anything now. It also helps to keep the coil from cooking should there be a drive transistor failure lock up and the coil stay activated. It can stay on indefinitely, just like holding the flipper button in for a long time.

Keep in mind too that from the factory, the ball lift kicker coil came over fused (6 1/4A Slo-Blo) and that's why it would always burn up when locked on, might as well not bother with a fuse then. The fuse wouldn't blow to protect the coil but a lesser fuse would sometimes blow during game play. This is the problem decision with BH, protect the coil or keep the game playing, Gottlieb chose to keep the game playing figuring that the coil would never lock on, with an eventual ground failure it will. With the ball lift kicker modification, I've been able to cut the fuse down to 2 1/2A Slo-Blo without problems in game function during game play.

Steve

Very nice. Flippers look nice and snappy for a gotttlieb, and your playfield looks like it's in pretty nice shape for this game. Mine has a lot of chipping around the window and some unevenness around the flippers, for example.

Ah, interesting! I have those rings too, and the area around my pop bumpers HAS been eaten alive, so take this guy's advice.

Are there kits available for rebuilding the boards on sys 80 games? I couple of those pop bumper boards on my game have "bad" written on them and I'd like to rebuild my boards in the head. I thought I've seen kits with all the small parts pre-assembled.

Steve - I did see some corrosion and "hacks" done (wires to get around bad traces). I'll have to take the board out and go through it.

I've wondered about this for a while. I know that John over at flippers.com has a long-standing position on the subject that's more conservative than the factory service bulletin used by TNT (https://www.flippers.com/premier_technology_GroundLetter.htm). Without getting into the 'correctness' of either position I wonder if TNT's installed user base offers any insight into the effectiveness of just doing the service bulletin ground update? Seems like there's year's worth of data there. Disclosure: My BH only has the extra ground and 5V wires on the 40-pin connectors - I've held off doing any other ground mods.

Has anyone tried these kits?

http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/gottlieb_kits.htm

Ok. Sorry to just jump in. Newest member of the club here. However, I feel like I know many of you already. Purchased my Black Hole last Saturday from The_Gorilla (2/7/2015)

Playing tonight started out like usual. Less than 50K,or an occasional 100K, until my second multi ball experience on BH landed me 340K. Then my daughter loaded up 25 credits. We played a bit prior to the kids' bedtime. At one point our four players' score (her 2 and my 2) added up to around 130K. Pathetic. I thought, Man, I pissed this thing off.
After the kids were put to bed, I decided to get back after it. One credit after another the BH seemed to be cursed. Definitely, a mind of its own. I can't tell you what seemed like the fastest games of pinball ever played. Many ended less than 30K. I can't believe the #of SDTM, the #of f-ing right flipper trap fails (through the gate), or the #of moonwalks off the left, or the bastard pop in the bottom corner draining me. I thought about filming the massacre, or the comedy, however you want to look at it, to share with all of you. With all the credits gone, I thought about giving the newest member of the family (the Black Hole) shaken baby syndrome. I just couldn't give up. After a while, the sounds at plunger pull sounded like "It" was laughing at me. I decided to put credits on one at a time as to fool the machine or something, so it couldn't plan my demise. I was planning my rant to post.
A few more games came and went. Until… The game of my life, so far. I don't know or remember exactly what all happened. It all happened so fast. Blur! I know I did well in the basement with one G-force lit and 3x at one point. Got Multiball and an extra ball on ball 3. After the drain, I saw the score run over 950K and thought, "I'm going to get the high score" (which is 975570.). Shoot, maybe even >1M. Could be possible? With the extra ball I proceeded to get a second Multiball! No f-ing way. All said and done. All tallied up. Carry the 1.

1,042,800.

Ended the night on a good note. However, 975570 still stands as the "high". You'll have to take my word for it. I don't think I'm going to run out and get a seven digit conversion just yet. I also, for some reason, feel I owe Gerry an apology. Over 1M within five days of owning. Yes. The glass was on!

What an excellent pin. Just when you feel like flipping it over on its side, "It" decides to let you get some points and have a great game once in a while. So begins the love-hate. Nice to be part of the club. image.jpg

BTW. My new avatar is the "bastard pop" in the bottom corner.

Respect the pop.

Yes that sounds all to familiar. I always seem to have many games under 300k till you get a good game that is why the title is so good!

awesome story!! nice score!

this game does have some of the most infuriating drains in all of pinball -- that right gate and that left pop bumper are both absurdly evil. which is why i love them. i still do the right cradle fail occasionally and want to punch myself in the face every time.

as for scoring on this machine .. i find if you want to ensure a high score on a particular credit (say in a competition or tournament), sticking to the upper playfield and working the pop bumpers and drops and stuff is more lucrative *on average* than going downstairs. but for the very highest possible scores (long term), getting some good lower playfield balls with 5x and some Gs are the way to roll the score over, which as you discovered, is totally doable with an exceptional game ... but you have to endure a lot of embarrassment to eventually get there!

congrats on the great new game. welcome to the club!

My 2 year old son, when playing and drains, already has the low grumble and glass slap down perfectly.

are you me posting via time tunnel from a year ago?

I think that if it were easy, it would be boring and nobody would want it. Once in a while, I sometimes have a run like that, I stick with it and "rough it up" a bit until it decides to play nice.

Steve

Yes. I believe so. I don't know where he learned this.

Anyone have a Pascal board in their BH?

Yeah, I do. Check out my posts on page 10 of this topic for more info and a gameplay vid.

There was one pascal video of game play I saw which was nice but.i would be more interested in the diagnostic features and anything not the same as original boards

Ok BH owners here is something you can try.

Start up a game with glass off. Now take the ball in the shooter lane and drain it making sure you score no points. Now do this repeatedly and keep count. The fifth or sixth time something interesting happens. We can keep it our little secret.

My Black Hole had flicker lights today and it's hasn't done that before.
The affected lights are only the 6volt controlled lights (GI is NOT affected)
The lights would stop flickering for a few moments, and then start back up again.

I reseated most of the connectors in the backbox boards, then checked for loose connections on the transformers / bridge rectifiers (especially the one labeled 6v lamps)

FWIW: Today is warmest day that it's been used in quite a while

Any ideas of what else to look for?

how old is the large filter cap by the 12V rectifier? Check wires going to that cap from the bridge.

Looks newer - pretty clean, no bulging. I was concerned with the Caps.
I'll have to verify the wires going to from tomorrow evening - Thanks

if they are orange change it.

You guys may find this interesting.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oh-man-the-rabbit-hole-goes-way-deep

Hi guys,
I am a new owner of one after buying sight unseen, then playing it 3 times and confirming the sale!
It is now at home but I haven't had time to play it, it was all I could do just to get the head bolted on, with help from my wife and son!
I went to get the serial number and it's missing from the top of the head, the support bar stamp is smudged and the stamp inside by the shooter is scratched but may have to do a pencil smudge imprint to see what the digits are. Are there any other places the serial number is located? This has been frankensteined from other games so all sorts of parts and boards have been swapped.

I have watched the videos on this thread and noticed the spinning disk on some goes clockwise and others anticlockwise. What is the correct direction? I presume its a matter of swapping the wires around?

Thanks

Oh, this is a matter of serious religious debate! It is as simple as swapping the wires. You'll have to decide which direction you prefer

Congrats on joining the club. It's an awesome game - one of my favorites. A lot of people slap a rubber on it beneath the lower pop bumper to keep it from draining there - if you have one, take it off! I'd also suggest pulling the glass and making sure everything is scoring as it should. You want all the points you're entitled to. I found one of my upper pop bumpers wasn't scoring but it was so fast I hadn't noticed.

Sounds like you know where all the serial numbers are.
Don't think you missed a spot. Paper pencil transfer should work just fine.
I registered my serial number with maybe Peter Hall 's site which I think is now gone.
He had a real nice site. I often wonder how many BH units are left.

Spinning disc? Well when I first got game I thought it looked like the cosmonauts where coming out not going in so I switched it. I believe I have mine going opposite the chase lights so anticlockwise.

If your disc is spinning all the time I would suggest going to flippers.com website and doing john's mod.
So that the disc only spins during game play. I still have original motor thanks to Peter and John.

I think blownfuse will give me crap. But here goes.
I suggest setting up to three ball play. It is what all electronic games were set for back in the day.
And the upside and only real difference is that the yellow spot targets stay accomplished from ball to ball so you do not have to get them all down in one ball to activate the capture.

Enjoy it, a great game!

This is incredible. Highly recommend watching CNKay's videos if you haven't already.

After my BH was warmed up for a couple hours, the flickering controlled lamps were really bad.
I took a DMM to the 6v lamps Bridge rectifier - it was reading ~ 3.5v

This morning after it's cooled off, the 6v lamps Bridge rectifier is reading ~ 6v.

The caps look good. The wiring seems OK. I have an audio amp that is getting 12v from that rectifier, hence the extra wires.

SAM_0297.JPG

SAM_0296.JPG

Not looking At the schematic but I think 12v bridge goes to the power board then gets converted to the 5v for logic and controlled lamps.

I am guessing you have checked the bridges with a meter in diode check mode with power off?

I would be Almost tempted to disconnect that extra circuit and see if things change.
I have a millionaire machine with the large filter cap wire broke off so all controlled lamps were flickering a bit but the game played perfect otherwise.

Yes your cAps are not the original have been changed and look fine.

This sounds like my problem. I've opened a new thread for tech help. Thanks.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-black-hole-flickering-lights#post-2368799

What do/are people doing for lip wear around the window? Do you just put new foam spacers in to make it even with the pf, or use thin mylar around it?

As for the pops....ugh. That wear is ugly. You guys just leave it with the mylar off?

Oh, the replacement of the orange small capacitor in the lower cab. Mine was rewired to a large cap just laying around. Is there a replacement that fits the stock holder?

I'm just about to order the pavlov board and new coils! Can't wait to get it all cleaned up.

BH has 2 caps down there.
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Game_Resets
That lists the cap and holder. I need two right? I remember some saying they replaced the two with 1 cap?

I periodically replace the spacers. They get squished permanently after a while. If you run out of new spacers, you can use two squished spacers stacked on top of each other instead.

I did some (unprofessional) touchups to my wear spots. Afterwards I installed a playfield protector. The protector came with upper and lower playields, and it evened out the window area.

I don't even use the black foam spacers anymore since they fail in time. I use the small black mini post rubber and it works fine in my game. They compress down to the thickness I need and hold firm to the adjustments I set the screws to.

Steve

It depends on how the capacitor is set up. If each capacitor services a different bridge rectifier, then you'll need two capacitors. If both capacitors service one bridge rectifier and have jumpers from one to the other, then usually one larger capacitor will handle the load.

Steve

What do these look like? Are they like post rubber you cut to size?

playfield protector?! any more info?

Ah ok, that's what I was thinking. I'll go verify and order new one(s).

I'm out of them right now but they look like these only in black. I'd have to look at my game now to see if I cut them in half across the axis, I may have.

Steve

white mini rubber.jpg

Ohhh those guys! OK

So 1 more question, TNT said they changed the coil I think on the lower pf up kicker to a different one gottlieb recommended. But when I emailed PBR they were not aware of that being done. Should I just stay stock?

They are a very thin plastic that covers the playfield.
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-BH-PF-PROTECTOR
Its good for my cheap touchups, but it has some cons ~ like glare.

I think the schematic calls for a A-4893 coil which is 2.1 ohms, this is the strongest single purpose coil Gottlieb makes. I'm not sure what TNT used. On my game, I did the conversion and used a A-20095 super flipper coil, the power coil is 1.55 ohms and can make the ball fly up the tube if that's what you want. The nice part is adding the end of stroke switch to protect the coil from burning up if you have a ground failure at the driver board and making the kicker strength adjustable. Open early on the switch = less strength on the kick, open late on the switch = more strength on the kick. It's been documented in the link below but it's something that not everyone wants to do or should, it's just another choice;

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Black_Hole_Ball_Lift_Kicker_Mod

While at it, if missing, don't forget to add pull-up resistors on all remote mounted transistors under the playfields;

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Solenoid_problems

Steve
System 80. not just a job, it's an adventure

Those pull ups may already be on your machine. What were they 4.7k?? Don't remember.
But they were factory installed on my machine.

Never had a problem with my uptube kicker. I would just go with stock.

The mini post rubbers are a great idea. Another problem I noticed besides the spongy washers losing spring is tha the t nuts on the underside are often loose this makes adjusting more tricky.
The window wear is almost unavoidable I had some wear I touch up a little no extra protection. It has been lasting much longer than I tought it would. I put the sticky Mylar rings around the pops the loose ones were just a plain stupid idea.

That's why I said, "if missing". Most of the BH's I've repaired in the past didn't have them. They aren't shown in the BH schematic either. Yep you remembered, 4.7K ohms, 1/4 watt.

Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

You think it plays that much different? I'd think it would be faster but I've considered them for two of my games