I own all three i prefer JP. Avengers is great and has good code but it still needs some more to reach a JP level.

JP is just such a well thought out game it feels like a true labor of love from stern to me. The navigating of the map using the truck is so unique and fun. The layout is so pure and unique, it’s a shooters dream. The orbit/tower third flipper combo is like the most satisfying thing ever.

The layout on Black Knight absolutely kills it for me and unlike bad/shallow code...you can't fix a layout. Great theme, decent code, but unfortunately a very boring and uninspired layout...especially for the Pro model of the third game in a legendary pinball series.

My vote would be for JP, then AVIQ and I wouldn't even consider picking up a Black Knight unless it was $4k or less.

If you have the chance to play all 3, play them and pick according to your taste. 90% of people could like one game and 10% another. What if you are in that 10%. I just could not get into JP despite all the hype and positive reviews around it. Thankfully I had a chance to play them all and picked up an AIQLE. Actually I picked up an Elvira LE at the time which to me is an absolutely fantastic game.

I do think avengers will become as good as JP, It already has great base code. I love my BK but it's not as deep as an Elwin game.

I would go Avengers personally. JP didn't click with me, and BKSOR is a fun game but it's got an issue or 2.

Have an AIQ pro and love it more every game as I figure out the rule set. I have a JP pro on location 10 minutes from me and it has grown on me over time to the point I want one now, when initially I didn’t care for the game at all.

Personally feel BKSOR is awful, especially the pro. I gave it a fair chance and played both versions plenty, but can’t find anything positive to say about it other than the artwork. The original and BK2K are both better than BKSOR.

If you like Iron Man/Tron and more difficult games...I’d put some time on a TMNT pro as well. Borg’s best layout thus far and I may like it more than JP or AIQ in a lot of ways.

It's def a throwback SS machine fo sho; not everyone's cup of tea. Personally I think the Pro is better.

BK is a joke compared to the other 2. Avengers is solid but Jurassic Park is a great proven complete game.

You really need to play them and see what you like. Lots of love for JP in this thread, and hate for BK. I personally am the opposite. I owned JP for 6 months and it was time to move it on. It's a good game, but just not a keeper for me. Haven't missed it one bit. BK (pro) on the other hand I have had over a year and I still love it. Yes, I hope for a bit more code polish, but even as-is I do not see it going anywhere for quite a while. I personally rate BK WAY ahead of JP...most would disagree...it's all a matter of opinion. AIQ I haven't gotten to play, but I think I will like it much more than JP as well. Looks like a fantastic game. All three are solid games and I am sure you'd be happy with any of them, but try your best to play them all first to see which one clicks best. And remember, it isn't hard to sell or trade these if they end up not being keepers. You aren't stuck with them forever. Best of luck!

I voted JP. I think that wins by a mile. After that... I know that AIQ has a superior layout, but I just have more fun playing Black Knight. I feel like BK takes second place. All three are pretty good games though. Would love to have an AIQ in the collection one day..

Brian

Problem is BKSOR is just too different in terms of Style to be part of this. I loved my Pro, it was simple and fast and great music. I picked JP because of the theme over AIQ, both are quite good in terms of gameplay.

U see this is what happens when u include BK3 in there. Stupid comments like this.

I am thinking about getting a BK. What issues are you speaking of??

First off i like it, and my goddamn wife is down there playing it and she hasn't touched a game in years

It's super shallow, which is fine by me, but people these days have an issue with that.
The Knight MB seems completely detached from the game & kind of...pointless? Doesn't stack, bland etc.
I hate to be another one of "those guys" but the Magna Save apron button is kind of lame. I don't cry at night over it or anything, but it would be better on the side.

For me, BK is one of the most fun pins ever, precisely because it is simple but rewarding, flowing and full of character. When you feel like having a quick blast few other pins compare, IMO.

I have a BK and a JP (both premium) and I think they are each a masterpiece, but for different reasons, and best of all they complement each other perfectly: JP when you want depth and a damn near perfect layout, BK when you want to turn off your brain and feel like a badass for a while.

So the only sensible thing to do is to get both.

Get the Pro. I didn't have any issues and I recently played an LE. The upper PF kills the action.

I think BKSOR is better than people give it credit for. I wouldn’t put it ahead of Avengers or JP, but if you already had those two I wouldn’t hesitate to grab a BKSOR especially at the price they are currently selling.

BK has a simple layout with boring code. How can you compare that to 2 great Elwin pins? You can’t.

I was the same until I played about 50 games on it. Something just didn’t click. And it definitely a harder to shoot game. When you hit the A shot though it is nice but definitely infuriating to hit

Man I love DP. And I love TWDLE such a brutal game

I recently let go a bksor Le because unlike the monsters if you fail the black knight mode you’re f’ed and the game was start a monster get to the upper play field and loop the loop to get better scores. The good/different thing on the pro is you don’t have that option so it could be more fun for me.

None of these if they are nib. Too many playfield issues.

Well, we CAN compare them because it's based on opinion. I literally compared them side-by-side for six months. BK is still here. JP is not. Layout is simple as a pure fan layout, but very refined and it shoots great. Very satisfying shots. In fact, I would rate the ramp-to-shield lock combo as one of my favorite combos in pinball. It just feels great. The code is far from boring. Each mode really feels like a unique battle, culminating in a brawl with BK himself. Pure adrenaline. I always walk away from that game exhausted and with my heart pumping. That isn't boring. I wish it had a little more breadth (give the pro catapult multi please Tim!) and a few tweaks, but beyond that, it's great code. JP has more unique shots, and some interesting code, but I ultimately didn't find it very satisfying. Obviously a lot of people do, but that doesn't make those that like something else wrong. Thankfully there are machines for every taste. We do not all have to like the same things.

Do yours have playfield issues?

Thanks for addressing a huge pet peeve of mine. Anytime someone says "you can't compare these games!" it's exactly what we're doing.

But like, how?

Map it somewhere that stops the ball. I'd use the far left VUK since the shield is already used for TKC locks. I wouldn't mind if they made you light lock at the right orbit to give me a reason to shoot over there. Or you could even use every so many u-turn orbits per "lock". I donno...but it's certainly not impossible and would give that one extra layer that I wish was there.

I agree with that. But specifically with code, there’s a LOT more put into JP than BK. And some of the scoring is way out of whack.

Yeah...JP is definitely deeper and does some unique stuff. I just wish more of it was as exciting as the T-Rex modes. If the rest would have been anywhere near that level, I might have kept mine. I just found the paddocks super repetitive and kind of dull. Control room stuff was ok. Wizard modes were ok, but nothing that really grabbed me (other than Nublar...that was pretty awesome). Can't put my finger on exactly why it didn't click with me, but it just didn't. Had a super strong honeymoon, but once that wore off I was just completely done with it.

I am not a fan of BKSOR.... one of my least favorite Stern games over the last 3 or 4 years.

JP2 or AIQ? I'd say JP2 if you are looking at the Pro's. With AIQ I don't think you miss much by not having the subway, but losing the Captain Marvel ramp is a pretty big deal. I find AIQ a little easier to shoot and my ball times are longer, but oddly the game is a little more intense.

JP2 is a great game. If you are off while playing you can embarrass yourself. The shots are definitely tighter than on AIQ, and unless you are a very, very good player you likely will never beat the game.

Honestly, I think owning both games could make for nice bookends in a smaller collection.

Yes. Pooling at ball guides. Rails dug in.

I can’t agree more. I’ve always felt that playing BKSOR feels like being in a true battle. It always got my blood pumping. It’s fast and brutal and I found myself playing it on location more often many of the other newer Sterns. I actually hope to get one at some point.

Light show is killer as well.

Well there goes that idea of making an offer on your JP

That's just ridiculous. Its not deep but far from boring.

I agree. I wasn't comparing. Its a completely different style of game. U can compare Maiden and JP and AIQ all deep coded more loaded style pins. BKSOR is a simple fast adrenalin rush type of pin that could be compared with the likes of IM or System 11's.

One thing I will add for posterity is that BKSoR will make you a better defensive player. You will develop lightning fast nudge reflexes as you try to save your ball on this game due to the relatively close shots (lower PF). Similar to TNA in that regard. I love it.

AIQ, on the other hand, kind of feels like it practically shoots itself. Make easy ramp shot, return to flipper, shoot again, feels kind of good, shoot again, Zzzzz.

Avengers and JP are awesome...JP is a little harder/more challenging but both are deep, fast fun and awesome. I wouldn't even consider a BKSor compared to Keith's games.

Good luck finding JP in stock anywhere. I was calling around this week, and nobody has them. Beware of the distributors who say they have them in stock on the internet, eBay, etc. They aren't getting them until Nov-Dec.

As for the comparison...I actually enjoy BKSOR a lot. Its not a NIB buy for me, but I'd probably spend $4500 on a new one. JP is #1 for me right now.

AIQ high speed flowy chaos. Lots of wow moments and fun, fair, yet tough game.

JP2 better code,

AIQ may have a more enjoyable layout

Its close

I have played JP2 Pro and loved it. AIQ looks awesome, but I haven’t played it yet. Which would be the one to purchase for a home collection? (I only have a budget for a Pro).

Mostly, but not entirely true. I recently placed an order with a distributor who claimed that he was getting a delivery at the end of October. Before putting down my deposit I emailed the sales department at Stern. They confirmed for me that there is a limited production taking place in mid-late October; it will be delivered to certain distributors at the end of October; these are distributors who have been promised machines that were back ordered. They also confirmed for me that my distributor is one of those receiving those machines at the end of October.

After the run that is going on now production will start back after the first of the year and those pins will be delivered to distributors in February. So yes, it is possible that there are still machines available being delivered to certain distributors at the end of this month.

I personally spoke to distributors (four, I believe) who listed their machines as in stock, only to call and be told Nov-Dec-Jan for delivery. One distributor has 9 listed as available on eBay with "Ships October" in the title, and then called to find they wouldn't be getting them in until December.

Bought BKSOR premium as my first NIB after I played the pro and then the premium. I bought it in September and have over 400 plays on it.

Bought the topper, added speaker lights, and a sub. Best topper imo, great call outs, great cgi, killer music that does get your heart pumping especially with the addition of an external sub.

Loved the pro but after playing the premium the upper playfield was a must have for me. The premium is still a fast game but the upper play field slowed it enough to give me a slight break lol. I do come out tired after playing it and that’s the reason I usually stop because I want to keep playing it one more time. Then after doing my cardio on BK I go play Monster Bash remake SE for my cool down.

Played Dead Pool and couldn’t get into it but I am not a huge Marvel fan and that does detract from me liking it. JP was fun to play on location but I think it would get old if in my collection and not a real fan of the artwork and lack of movie cut scenes and original actors besides Wayne Knight.

Again just my opinion but I do not understand the hate BKSOR gets. Sometimes I just love a game that doesn’t have a super deep rule set you don’t have to really think about when playing and just have fun hitting a ball and going back and playing one more game.

Try before you buy if possible. If I played a game once and really liked it and think I want to buy it I will go back and play it again after the first initial wow factor wears off and see if I still really like or love it enough to buy it.

I just put my money where my mouth is and picked up a Stern JP. Not new in box, but looks and plays new. Very happy to have it in the collection now!

I have a JP Pro, a BK Premium and others.

BK is a wickedly fast game that you have to really have your shots down when it gets crazy - and the music and modes are great for my dollars.

I'd say BK is more punishing than JP, and JP is a great game in its own right. The lack of movie clips were put-offs for me to be sure, but there's a project on Pinside that REALLY adds much to JP. The Escape from Nublar mode, in addition to the new movie and sounds make this game what it should have been when I bought it (used).

I don't regret either game, and watched AIQ videos quite a bit (as well as others) but decided DeadPool would be my next buy. I liked that DP was based on the comics and not the movies, and I enjoyed the 'mini games' tied in with the display.

If you were to ask me which I like more now between BK and JP, I'd say JP due to the new movie/sound mods, but not by a great margin. I really enjoy BK especially playing with friends (or frenemies). It's exciting and competitive and downright mean. I don't believe the 'lack of depth' is a strike against BK at all. There's plenty to concentrate and get pissed about when you miss and/or can't concentrate because the action is fast and furious. Love the videos and the energy in BK.

I know you've already decided, and JP is honestly a great choice, Pro or Premium.

Confirmed from Stern that mine shipped today to the distributor.