(Topic ID: 243836)

BKSOR playfield issue


By darcangeloel

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 104 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by CaptainNavidad
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Would you make stern fix this? ”

  • Hell yes that thing is brand new 42 votes
    70%
  • Meh it's going to break sooner or later so f it 0 votes
  • Just play pinball bro :) 18 votes
    30%

(60 votes)

This poll has been closed.

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There are 104 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 10 months ago

Howdy folks, just wanted to see what people thought. Just got a nib bksor pro. Everything is flawless except this missing strip of wood / crack. I can't really see if from the players point of view but I'm worried as time goes by it will crack up into the playfield. This is my frist nib so I wanted to check with folks and see if this is normal before contacting my distro / stern. Like I said everything else is stellar so I don't want this to be a stern bashing thread more so just curious if I should even care about it. Thanks!
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#2 10 months ago

I would call my distro.....i wouldnt accept the pf that way

21
#3 10 months ago

That is multi-layered plywood. I doubt that crack will grow any at all. I wouldn't worry about it.
--
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#4 10 months ago

I'd probably put a piece of mylar over it (and the rest of the edge of the outhole) to be safe

#5 10 months ago

Me personally I would attempt to get a new playfield! Then I would at least ask for a price break. The squeaky gear gets the oil.

#6 10 months ago

Ty to everyone for their thoughts. I'll send my distro an email and see what he thinks. Thanks!

12
#7 10 months ago

That is a BIG defect that should have never been put in a game.

It was dr sure there before they even built the game.

I would for sure demand a replacement. Don’t relent until you get it. That is really bad!

#8 10 months ago

I personally think its fine, it's a wood playfield so wood cracks and knots are expected. it's in you're drain lane you shouldn't have any problems If this was on the actual playfield itself I would ask for a replacement

21
#9 10 months ago

I would say that is less than ideal but understandable and acceptable given the location of it. Doubt it will spread or anything like that.
Asking for a new playfield isn’t much help unless they are putting it in too.
Nine times out of ten people complain and demand a new playfield.
They sell it later because the flaw” never bothers them enough to do the swap”

#10 10 months ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

I would say that is less than ideal but understandable and acceptable given the location of it. Doubt it will spread or anything like that.
Asking for a new playfield isn’t much help unless they are putting it in too.
Nine times out of ten people complain and demand a new playfield.
They sell it later because the flaw” never bothers them enough to do the swap”

Wait I thought they send a populated playfield and I send back the damaged one? Is that not the case? Very unlikely I'd do a full pf swap. I just bought the game. I see exactly why people wouldn't do that, it's a ton of work. If it is just swapping a populated playfield then no problem but otherwise that seems kind of unreasonable.

#11 10 months ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

I would say that is less than ideal but understandable and acceptable given the location of it. Doubt it will spread or anything like that.
Asking for a new playfield isn’t much help unless they are putting it in too.
Nine times out of ten people complain and demand a new playfield.
They sell it later because the flaw” never bothers them enough to do the swap”

Also ty for chiming in it makes me feel better about it given someone with your level of experience chiming in. Regarding it spreading. But yeah I mean if they just send me a pf then I guess I'd take it but man that seems kind of like a lazy way to fix the issue.

#12 10 months ago

I bet Stern sends you a populated playfield. Based on this it sounds reasonable.

#13 10 months ago

Its only the top layer of ply. Its outside the artwork. Its filled with clear and smooth to the touch, right? I don't see the problem here.

#14 10 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Its only the top layer of ply. Its outside the artwork. Its filled with clear and smooth to the touch, right? I don't see the problem here.

It is not filled with clear and isn't smooth to the touch if so I'd agree. Like when I run my finger over the surface it feels like ply wood under it not smooth and certainly not like a clear coat. It almost looks like it chipped from the edge and someone pulled up on it and that is where it stopped so they were like meh let's just ship it and see if anyone cares. Otherwise I'm not sure how that would pass QC.

#15 10 months ago

It will takes months to get it straightened out trust me. They kinda drag ass at stern. This is not acceptable I’d be patient & they’ll make good on it. This is why I will never buy nib again. You’re paying good money. Would anyone go pick up their brand new car at the dealership and be cool if it had a scratch?

10
#16 10 months ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

Also ty for chiming in it makes me feel better about it given someone with your level of experience chiming in. Regarding it spreading. But yeah I mean if they just send me a pf then I guess I'd take it but man that seems kind of like a lazy way to fix the issue.

Who is your distributor?

If you just opened this game then call them, tell them the game has a majof pf defect and should have never been past qc of the pf before being populated. This is actually indicative of the entire current culture at Stern (sadly).

Demand a new game! Not merely a new pf. As others mentions this would be like getting your brand new car and it arrives with the back quarter panel dented but someone saying it is understandable because you can't see it when driving.

It blows my mind that anyone, including HEP, would say this is acceptable. The PF is the most important part of a pinball and plainly put, if you line up 10 games with various minot issues, EVERYONE will by pass yours and will also offer you less on resale if they do offer to buy.

WHY would anyone ever accept this? Return it to you distributor, demand a replacement game! If they won't do it,then out them here and file a charge back for defective goods.

#17 10 months ago

I will add, that the defect actually tells me to look over the rest of th pf with a closer eye. That top layer split is hinting towards moreto come. Over the years as temp and humidity fluctuates, the wood will move. The top layer with weak fibers is prone to more splitting and likely planking.

#18 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Who is your distributor?
If you just opened this game then call them, tell them the game has a majof pf defect and should have never been past qc of the pf before being populated. This is actually indicative of the entire current culture at Stern (sadly).
Demand a new game! Not merely a new pf. As others mentions this would be like getting your brand new car and it arrives with the back quarter panel dented but someone saying it is understandable because you can't see it when driving.
It blows my mind that anyone, including HEP, would say this is acceptable. The PF is the most important part of a pinball and plainly put, if you line up 10 games with various minot issues, EVERYONE will by pass yours and will also offer you less on resale if they do offer to buy.
WHY would anyone ever accept this? Return it to you distributor, demand a replacement game! If they won't do it,then out them here and file a charge back for defective goods.

Blows my mind too,, I agree 100% why would you accept this?

#19 10 months ago

That's really minor and in a place you won't even see it. If you lift the playfield and don't see a matching crack on the other side it would be a non-issue for me. Wood is imperfect, it doesn't affect the appearance or structural integrity. If I was buying it used I wouldn't care either.

#20 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Who is your distributor?
If you just opened this game then call them, tell them the game has a majof pf defect and should have never been past qc of the pf before being populated. This is actually indicative of the entire current culture at Stern (sadly).
Demand a new game! Not merely a new pf. As others mentions this would be like getting your brand new car and it arrives with the back quarter panel dented but someone saying it is understandable because you can't see it when driving.
It blows my mind that anyone, including HEP, would say this is acceptable. The PF is the most important part of a pinball and plainly put, if you line up 10 games with various minot issues, EVERYONE will by pass yours and will also offer you less on resale if they do offer to buy.
WHY would anyone ever accept this? Return it to you distributor, demand a replacement game! If they won't do it,then out them here and file a charge back for defective goods.

If it were as easy as a phone call I would agree but my experience has been you have to jump through many hoops and put a lot of “sweat equity” in fixing these issues .
That is why I say it is less than ideal but given where it is at(under the apron)it is acceptable if the rest of the game is nice.
What I see there is a slight void in the top veneer right at the trough entrance.If I had to pick a “good “ place for a flaw that would be the area.
Put that flaw anywhere else on the playfield and I would have a much different opinion but knowing what it takes to get these issues resolved I would say just enjoy the game if that is all that is wrong. The next one could be worse.

#21 10 months ago

Send back machine or ask for $500 back.

#22 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

As others mentions this would be like getting your brand new car and it arrives with the back quarter panel

I'd say it's more analogous to bad stitching or a tear on the underside of seat upholstery. Wait, did we just get into a cargument? Shit!

#23 10 months ago

Demands of a new playfield over a small issue like this helps drive NIB costs up.

15
#24 10 months ago

Some people may say it's minor because it is not their machine. If it was, It would probably be a major deal especially since it is brand new.
When you go to sale, you will not get top price with that flaw.

10
#25 10 months ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

Demands of a new playfield over a small issue like this helps drive NIB costs up.

Lets be honest here. This was a $20 fuck up at one point (the cost of that blank pf before anything started with it), but it went through cutting, printing, clear coating, prepopulation, population, being put in a game, and play testing... all with likely multiple QC steps alomg the way. stern at multiple steps decided to let this thing continue on down the line as it became a more and more expensive fuck up. They opted to then pass that on to a paying customer at the tune of at least a $500 resale cost to the end user. this is BAD and they need to have people push back.

This does NOT drive up NIB costs. This is something that should cost Stern as they need to rep,ace the game and now reimburse the distributor for shipping a defective product.

Now is the time to act! I assume you paid recently which means you can easily file a charge back. Once that time passes then things get harder. Call your distributor. If they don't fix this immediately then out them here and do not relent. This should be a nearly zero effort replacement and if it is not, then be sure you do the work to impact their future sales.

I let a lot os shit fly on NIB games but this is well above and beyond IMHO and I have likey unboxed more NIB games in the past five years than most people since I put them on route. That is by far the worst defect I have seen out of box. Other things come up after a few hundred plays but that is a bit different.

Good luck and keep us posted.

#26 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

$500 resale cost

I think that is an exaggeration, its superficial in an area you don't see.

Quoted from Whysnow:

This does NOT drive up NIB costs.

Perfection and super tight QC cost money through labor and scrap, businesses don't just give that away, someone is going to pay for it.

#27 10 months ago

Possibly try and see if you can get a new pf at cost. Keep with the game . Should you try and resell it will help with the new buyer.
People can be very picky when buying a huo game and that crack as unfortunate as it is will affect that games resale unfortunately as it will be pointed out by a buyer and they will pass or expect a discount.

#28 10 months ago

I would certainly report that giving the past issues with NIB. It may seem minor
now given the location but who knows what happens when you start raising and lowering
that play field to service and what not. The stress of that overtime may make it worse.
You already hearing the resale end of it so why not pursue a replacement even if the process
takes time. It’s a lot of money and it won’t hurt.

12
#29 10 months ago
Quoted from FalconDriver:

I would certainly report that giving the past issues with NIB. It may seem minor
now given the location but who knows what happens when you start raising and lowering
that play field to service and what not. The stress of that overtime may make it worse.
You already hearing the resale end of it so why not pursue a replacement even if the process
takes time. It’s a lot of money and it won’t hurt.

This is the problem i have with this. If i went out to buy this game from the OP not knowing about this issue until i got there, saw the issue i would have walked away. Resale value will hurt this pinball. 100% fact. Sorry OP. I hope they send you a new populated playfield. And yes, they knew about this when they were building it on the factory line. Sad!

#30 10 months ago

wait a minute... this is the bare minimum of QC needs. I cant tell if you are trolling or you really think this is acceptable. This defect is so far beyond any acceptable level in pretty much any manufacturing I have ever seen or been part of.

It is in the surface of the finished product and the most important part of the entire game. A ding in the back of the cabinet is minor. A full crack through the top layer of the playfield... is the other side of the spectrum.

I think it is actually indicative of how BAD things are getting at Stern when this made it through every QC level and was deemed ok to them.

#31 10 months ago

This is an issue that isn't visible in a normal playing position, will likely never progress, and not influence game play. In many games this part of the play field is painted and this type of issue would be unnoticeable. But it is your NIB game and it bothers you. I respect that and it would bother me too. Now that you've started a new thread and rallied up the troops you have lots of opinions but your problem is still there.

Here is what I recommend: Write to your distributor with pictures of the problem. Also tell him what would be acceptable solution to YOU. What would be acceptable pinside users is of little relevance. Maybe you would be happy with some money back?, maybe a Stern T-shirt or trans light, a new unpopulated playfield? a playfield swap? Maybe multiple options would be acceptable. My guess is if you ask nicely and ask for something reasonable you'll get it. I have had problems with multiple NIB games (Stern, Spooky, and JJP) from multiple distributors and this approach has always worked. If it doesn't work get back to us - in that case my guess is either you or your distributor are being unreasonable and then maybe the community can help straighten things out.

#32 10 months ago

in a brand new game for a HUO collection, that would bother me. just nicely tell your distributor. they should have no problem going to bat for you. if they don’t, consider changing distributors. keep in mind, a good distributor works for YOU, not the manufacturer.

#33 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I cant tell if you are trolling or you really think this is acceptable.

No trolling, I truly mean I wouldn't give a shit.

My main point is the more perfection people want, the more it is going to cost. That and I don't think it is a defect worth noting.

#34 10 months ago
Quoted from 2manypins:

Some people may say it's minor because it is not their machine. If it was, It would probably be a major deal especially since it is brand new.
When you go to sale, you will not get top price with that flaw.

This is good to note and I hadn't thought about it. Not that I want to sell but you never know lol.

#35 10 months ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

This is good to note and I hadn't thought about it. Not that I want to sell but you never know lol.

From a resell stand point....for the same price....would you buy one with, or without the defect?

#36 10 months ago
Quoted from Stones:

From a resell stand point....for the same price....would you buy one with, or without the defect?

Without

#37 10 months ago

And there are plenty out there for people to pick from. Given the issues, your particular game would be on the bottom of this list unless it had a pretty decent discount

#38 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

And there are plenty out there for people to pick from. Given the issues, your particular game would be on the bottom of this list unless it had a pretty decent discount

Again to be clear I don't plan on selling I've had my Bk2k forever and still love it just called my distro and he is working with stern to get a populated pf sent to me

-4
#39 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

went through cutting, printing, clear coating, prepopulation, population, being put in a game, and play testing... all with likely multiple QC steps alomg the way. stern at multiple steps decided to let this thing continue on down the line

At least a dozen professionals who work with playfields every day looked at it during the process and decided it was acceptable.

Some pinsiders think it's a horrible defect.

Whose opinion should you trust and why?

#40 10 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

At least a dozen professionals who work with playfields every day looked at it during the process and decided it was acceptable.
Some pinsiders think it's a horrible defect.
Whose opinion should you trust and why?

Also, who has financial/time/whatever motivation behind these positions... Can’t forget that part. Maybe QC employees who “cause too many problems” aren’t doing themselves any favors at work. Lots to consider there.

11
#41 10 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

At least a dozen professionals who work with playfields every day looked at it during the process and decided it was acceptable.
Some pinsiders think it's a horrible defect.
Whose opinion should you trust and why?

Um... the people that spend 5k+ and actually care about the end product.

Sorry but why would you ever trust the company willing to put shit like this out the door and call it good.

#42 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

the people that spend 5k+ and actually care about the end product.

Every person on the line cares about the end product. It's their livelihood.

Quoted from Whysnow:

why would you ever trust the company willing to put shit like this out the door and call it good.

Because it's a cosmetic issue that's almost never even seen. It doesn't affect play. A dozen or more professionals that assemble pinball machines daily saw it and didn't reject it.
HEP, one of the most respected restorers in pinball looked at it and is unconcerned.
Chris Hibler, one of the top techs in pinball, is also unconcerned.

I trust those opinions more than others I've read here. If it were my game I would not be concerned.

11
#43 10 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Every person on the line cares about the end product. It's their livelihood.

Because it's a cosmetic issue that's almost never even seen. It doesn't affect play. A dozen or more professionals that assemble pinball machines daily saw it and didn't reject it.
HEP, one of the most respected restorers in pinball looked at it and is unconcerned.
Chris Hibler, one of the top techs in pinball, is also unconcerned.
I trust those opinions more than others I've read here. If it were my game I would not be concerned.

You looking to buy? I am guessing the OP would likely be very happy to sell it to you for what he has in it? Then he could get a brand new example without this defect.

11
#44 10 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Um... the people that spend 5k+ and actually care about the end product.
Sorry but why would you ever trust the company willing to put shit like this out the door and call it good.

The game should have never been shipped like that. Man this makes me cringe.

#45 10 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Every person on the line cares about the end product. It's their livelihood.

Respectfully, I disagree with this entirely. Plenty of people work jobs that they dont care about. I have personally employed, fired, and come across numerous people that do not care about the end product. In fact I have spoken to many people that earn their living selling pinball, and they don't even play or care to play pinball.

I wish what you say could and would be true. The world would be a better place if people actually cared.

#46 10 months ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

Howdy folks, just wanted to see what people thought. Just got a nib bksor pro. Everything is flawless except this missing strip of wood / crack. I can't really see if from the players point of view but I'm worried as time goes by it will crack up into the playfield. This is my frist nib so I wanted to check with folks and see if this is normal before contacting my distro / stern. Like I said everything else is stellar so I don't want this to be a stern bashing thread more so just curious if I should even care about it. Thanks!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Keep us posted to what takes place. I am just about to possibly buy a nib game or two. I’d like to know what happens.

#47 10 months ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Keep us posted to what takes place. I am just about to possibly buy a nib game or two. I’d like to know what happens.

You got it, I assume they will take their sweet time but who knows. in the mean time I am enjoying the game. It is EPIC!

-1
#48 10 months ago

Get Stern to give you a populated playfied. That is unacceptable. And proves Stern's assembly line and quality checkers are lazy as fuck.
As any normal assembly line, something that large and obvious wouldn't have made it past.

Every stern I've seen lately in my distros showroom has had playfield issues.
Beatles, deadpool, Munsters, gotg and bksor.
Mostly obvious woodgrain, and bad/thin clearcoat. And the demo models that get played at tournaments or lent out, have craters like the moon. Yet the jjp and American pinball and CGC playfields there are fine.
Hmmmm?

Good luck with getting this fixed. I'm just saying Stern is no longer getting my $$.

-2
#50 10 months ago

Yup, justify it any way you want. But there's a difference between obvious and having to hunt to find it.

And a difference between a few issues. And a couple of thousand issues.

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