I wanted to run this past folks to see if I am getting this right as I am no stranger to rebuilding flippers after attending Vid's flipper rebuilding school (I read Vid's flipper rebuild thread and I've rebuilt a good number of flippers and have never seen this problem or had this complaint). On my BK2K during league play last night the lower right flipper got weaker (And Hotter and I mean really hot, not to the point that anything melted but it was damn hot to the touch)as the night went on. I rebuilt these flippers recently (Within the last year or so and I've put about 300 or so games on them, I did the full kit and (I Think Cab flipper switch as well if I recall) I also upgraded the coils to the blue wrapper pincoils from Marco (I like the pretty wrapper (FL-11629). From what I can tell the EOS is making good contact and when closed and seems to have the correct gap when opening. The only thing I can think of that would be binding would be that stupid return spring that sits around the plunger. I have enough up and down play (I used the Marco flipper gaping tool / fork for this). Any other ideas?

The other odd thing is, I personally can still make all the shots. It's other folks who had the issue but without a doubt it is getting hot and backhanding it into the spin VUK has gotten harder. I guess my point is with FL-11629's this flipper should be super strong right? Also I get that by their very nature coils will get hot but this is not in the normal range.

Also this is not an issue with the left or upper right flipper. They are still super strong.

To confirm your meaning here do you mean set the DMM to ohms and close the switch (Game off of course) and if I get anything higher than 5 ohms I have an issue). I agree though that this does reek of an EOS issue.

This is an interesting idea and I will check that out for sure (And hit it with a little bit of sanding). Would this cause the heat issue as well (I would think that makes sense as the larger higher powered part of the coil is staying on). It does make me wonder though. On other games when the EOS isn't working right (Not making contact and such), it will cause a fuse to pop. In this case, I haven't seen this fuse go yet.

Thanks a ton for the idea

This is really simple and good advice. I'll give it a shot when I get home and report back .

I think that is right. When the paw strikes the switch it opens it and then pushes another stacked switch closed to give power to the upper flipper (If memory serves). However I still think your original assertion could be correct. If when closed I'm getting resistance on the switch wouldn't that cause weak/ hot flippers? I'm thinking it's either that or the damn replacement spring causing some type of binding (But I couldn't prove that last night.)

So I cleaned the eos regapped and did the wpc conversion vid suggested and I also tightened up the gap on the flipper button. As such the power is back full force (honestly I don't remember it ever being this strong) however even after just a few 10 min games that coil is hot to the touch, again not melting but hot AF. The other coil is not hot at all. Perhaps Pincoil 11629's get real hot? Is the heat normal? Again I'm glad the power is back

Sure np. I'm pretty sure they are right but it never hurts to have someone else verify no pic of the left coil on hand. Only the lower right as I always take pictures before I start taking stuff apart.

20180919_172700 (resized).jpg

20180919_172720 (resized).jpg

20180919_172722 (resized).jpg

Yeah I put in FL-11629's as I like the extra power also GRC did it hahaha. Come to think of it the other coil is a 30.

Interesting, any idea where you read that? I'm curious about it. Also maybe that describes the extra heat?

That's the Rays tech tips dudes on YouTube. They have a retail store / shop in PA. Not as well known in my opinion as TNT but they seem to do nice work.

Eh oddly I didn't take any as I was in a hurry to get it done . Again power is back though. I wonder if I put in a new 30 coil on that side if the heat would go away. Better to have a normal coil than a high power coil that burns itself out.

- Yup he mentioned it specifically. Fast forward to around 7 min in and watch to 9 min in. He specifically talks about how long the shot up the left ramp is (Which I agree, it is a super long shot and it has to go up a pretty steep ramp. When you have the 30 coils in the game you can't always make it which I think hurts the game play). He also talked about how they specifically used weaker coils in order to increase the operators earning. Now whether that is true or not idk, it's possible. One thing of note, he did call the 29's hot coils so perhaps it is normal... hell if I know hahaha. I'll measure the resistance and report back.

What makes you say that? Please note when I flipped the coil around (Per Vid's guide) I had to extend the wires a bit so you'll need to look a bit closer to see what is wired where. I think its wired right from what I can tell. Looking at the picture on the top most lug I have two purple yellows, on the middle lug I have a single teal wire going to the EOS, and on the bottom lug I have two wires a blue purple and a teal wire going to the other side of the EOS. I'll check the close ups of under the PF on Ipdb if I can find them.

Na no worries at all. If I have it wrong I want to know for sure based on the pictures on Ipdb I think I have it right as they have the coils flipped around (Lugs away from the coil stop). They have two purple yellow on the top lug, one teal going to the EOS on the middle lug, and two wires one going to the EOS looks teal and another wire (I can't tell the color as I am zoomed in 400% LOL), assuming that game is wired correctly, I think it's correct.

Here is a left flipper coil it isn't flipped around so you'll have to thing about it that way. Looking at the left (If the coil was flipped around it looks like the top would have a blue (Or purple or blue with a yellow stripe) and another wire. One wire going to the EOS (White instead of teal) on the middle and one wire going to the eos (White) and one blue purple wire on the bottom. Going with this picture as well I think it matches mine as well.

pasted_image (resized).png

cool will do. Glad it hasn't been wired wrong for like a year hahahaha. I'll check those resistances when I get home. To confirm I should take those readings at the coil lugs correct? I don't have to remove the wires or anything right? (Again game off of course). Thanks. If memory serves I would put one lead on the top lug and one on the middle take a reading. Move the flipper up with the leads on the same lugs and take a reading then put one lead on the bottom lug and one lead on the middle still and take a reading. Then with the same lugs take a reading with the flipper up as well? I think I've confused myself just writing it out hahaha. See the picture for the testing I am thinking of.

Coil Testing (resized).png

by DDM I mean DMM (Digital Multimeter) lolz

I don't have a auto ranging meter so I set this to 200 ohms. Here are the readings:

Test 1 : 4.1
Test 2 : 4.2
Test 3 : 00.3
Test 4 : 45.5

Interesting, yeah I'll give that a try for sure. Just to confirm my understanding of this coil when I hit the flipper button does that activate the power part of the coil and the hold part of the coil? Then when the eos opens does that turn off the power part of the coil and only leave the hold part of the coil on? I think thats how it works lolz. Ty for the help my man these are all awesome things to check.

I removed the wire from the middle lug. I'm now getting
Test 1 and 2 remain the same
Test 3 131.2
Test 4 59.3

Dumb question with the eos connected should I get those same readings? For test 4 that is? The more I think about it no right.

So for now I only changed the lower right flipper (I'll do the lower left as well so they are both snappy. The top flipper has always been strong and returns nicely so I think I'll leave it as is.

Regarding how I am getting 60 ohms with the flipper up and the middle lug disconnected. I wonder if something is causing a short somehow? Idk hahaha. I rebuild this one a while back before I discovered heat shrink tubing (And the fact that removing the entire assembly and working on it out of the game is 100 times easier to get good solid connections. I've disconnected all the wires at the lugs. I'm going to go back and make sure everything is correct and nothing is making contact where it shouldn't. I do wonder though what the correct resistances should be with the coil out of a game and what they are when you move a plunger through the center (As this does seem to change the resistance).

That link was a very nice write up btw. So when the flipper is flipped it puts the low powered coil and high power coil in series in order to get the most resistance (Lowest amperage draw (Which I figure means lower heat). So the fact that both of my test 4's keep coming out with lower resistances tells me something is pretty wrong. I wonder if I've cooked that coil somehow.

Good idea. I'm thinking once I take it all apart and heat shrink tube everything nicely and put it back together that could resolve the issue.

I cleaned up that flipper assembly and it looks better however the issue remains. I plan to install a new coil and hopefully that will resolve the issue.

Sure did, before I had some nice old electrical tape on it (Extra shitty job hahaha). Now it is all nice and pretty. I think mine read OL when I trying to get a resistance reading on the cap? Not 60 or anything. I need to go back and get the resistances now that it's been reinstalled.