(Topic ID: 283341)

BK2000 - Light matrix issue

By Kawydud

3 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by slochar
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

I have a BK2000 that has a light matrix issue. The first 4 columns light exactly how they should in single light test. When I get to the second half of the matrix, all 4 lights in the corresponding columns light up when I test a single light. So for the entire second half of the light test, there will be 4 lights on for each lamp. The lights flash just like they should. Nothing is locked on, just 4 lights flashing for each second half of the light test.

I have even disconnected the connectors for the strobe and return off the cpu board and checked the transistors withe a logic probe. The transistors are not functioning like the first 4 with all wires disconnecting. It is acting like something in the cpu board is telling it to act differently.

What I have changed - all new tip 42 transistors, new pre driver transistors, new 7408 chip for the second half of the matrix, and a new 6821 PIA.

#2 3 years ago

Little bit of an update, I swapped out the CPU from my Whirlwind in to BK2000 to verify my issue is on the CPU board. Game works perfectly with that board. So I don't know where to go from there. All of the components that seem to control the second half of the light matrix have been changed out. My logic probe is still showing that those 4 transistors are firing together when only one should be on during the specific light test. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks

#3 3 years ago

Which 4 lamps in each will help you narrow it down. At least you know it's not on the PF since the other mpu board worked.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Which 4 lamps in each will help you narrow it down. At least you know it's not on the PF since the other mpu board worked.

The corresponding lights on the same row of the matrix light up at the same time the single light is supposed to. So for the entire 4 columns there are 4 lights flashing during single lamp test.

#5 3 years ago

So you're stepping through lamp test to 32, advance ransom bolt, everything is fine, you go to 33 drawbridge bolt 3, you get 33, 41, 49, and 57 lighting? You move to 34 and you get 34, 42, 50, 58?

This would point to the column driver being the issue, my bet would have been U52 the 7408 but you already replaced that.... did you socket it and can replace it easily? Was it a straight 7408 or one of the other varieties?

#6 3 years ago

If it’s not a board issue because you eliminated that by swapping, sounds to me like a diode issue on one of those controlled lamps.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

So you're stepping through lamp test to 32, advance ransom bolt, everything is fine, you go to 33 drawbridge bolt 3, you get 33, 41, 49, and 57 lighting? You move to 34 and you get 34, 42, 50, 58?
This would point to the column driver being the issue, my bet would have been U52 the 7408 but you already replaced that.... did you socket it and can replace it easily? Was it a straight 7408 or one of the other varieties?

It was a 74LS08 that I used for a replacement. I agree it points to a column driving issue, just don't know where to go from here. I could replace it again with a new one, but there was no change after replacing it the first time. Making me think that there was nothing wrong with the first one.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

I have even disconnected the connectors for the strobe and return off the cpu board and checked the transistors withe a logic probe. The transistors are not functioning like the first 4 with all wires disconnecting. It is acting like something in the cpu board is telling it to act differently.
What I have changed - all new tip 42 transistors, new pre driver transistors, new 7408 chip for the second half of the matrix, and a new 6821 PIA.

Careful with the probe and 18v. If you have a probe with CMOS setting i think that should be OK.

Anyways you have a probe and it sounds like you know how to use it. So even with the lamp fuse pulled you can check the logic stuff and find out where the signals are crapping out at. Good thing is four circuits are working OK. That means with the probe you can start at the PIA and work towards the transistor and compare working circuits to not working circuit at each step and find out where it goes wrong at.

If all four non workings circuits are connected to one 7408 chip that would be a big clue. Without looking at the schematic, 7408s are usually used as blanking protection. The blanking signal may not be making it to the one chip with all non working circuits from a cut trace or whatever.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from PNBLWZD:

If it’s not a board issue because you eliminated that by swapping, sounds to me like a diode issue on one of those controlled lamps.

It is a board issue, sorry If I wasn't clear on it. The board from Whirlwind works perfectly in BK2000. Lights test just like they are supposed to.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

If all four non workings circuits are connected to one 7408 chip that would be a big clue. Without looking at the schematic, 7408s are usually used as blanking protection. The blanking signal may not be making it to the one chip with all non working circuits from a cut trace or whatever.

I bet that's it. Just looked at the schematic and sure enough that's a signal in common with all of the gates on the 7408.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

I bet that's it. Just looked at the schematic and sure enough that's a signal in common with all of the gates on the 7408.

I would agree as well, that was the first thing I replaced since it had all of the columns connected to it. Unfortunately that didn't change anything.

#12 3 years ago

I mean the blanking signal Andrew referred to being missing from all or some of the gates on the 7408, not the chip itself. (i.e. broken trace, or shorted trace)

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

I mean the blanking signal Andrew referred to being missing from all or some of the gates on the 7408, not the chip itself. (i.e. broken trace, or shorted trace)

Gotcha! Thanks

#14 3 years ago

Couldn't multiple lamps in the same column mean a return issue with one of the 7406 ICs?

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from pure_penalty:

Couldn't multiple lamps in the same column mean a return issue with one of the 7406 ICs?

I believe the returns are controlled by the 7408 and the rows are driven by the 7406. That is just what I am seeing on the print, maybe I am missing something.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from pure_penalty:

Couldn't multiple lamps in the same column mean a return issue with one of the 7406 ICs?

If they were multiple rows yes but I read it as multiple columns vs. multiple rows.

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