(Topic ID: 39906)

Bingo hunting ?

By HELLODEADCITY

11 years ago


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    There are 270 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.
    #201 9 years ago

    This place always has "weird stuff" which explains the name. They are in KC, Missouri and I've bought some pachinko machines from him in the past...so I know he will come down on price.

    http://www.weirdstuffantiques.com/weirdstuffFUN.html

    Go 3/4 down page on left side.
    antique 1952 Bally's SPOT-LITE wood rail pinball game machine -$475.00

    #202 9 years ago
    Quoted from Vic_Camp:

    This Bally's Silver Sails bingo pinball has the golden gate playfield in it and was from the factory.

    So its priced higher because its more rare.
    Did they make many of them?

    #203 9 years ago
    Quoted from Pin-it:

    So its priced higher because its more rare.Did they make many of them?

    The Silver Sails with the Golden Gate playfield in it is not rare and looks to be over price for the condition it's in. Do not how many are around,but i'v seen a few.The Silver Sails for $650 is a steal and under priced because it looks totally restored.I seen some totally restored Silver Sails and Golden Gate's go for $2500.

    9 months later
    #204 8 years ago

    I recently bought a Gay Time and Blue Chip(6 card) and have been making some room for them. I have a super nice Gay Time already in my collection but this one in the pictures will be added to my collection very soon since it came from Ohio and Jeffrey Lawton had serviced it for many years. This one is actually in better condition than the one in my collection which is hard to believe. I will send more pictures when i get it set up. The Blue Chip is also in sensational condition.
    manorgarpins 019.JPGmanorgarpins 019.JPGmanorgarpins 020.JPGmanorgarpins 020.JPG

    #206 8 years ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    corvallis.craigslist.org link

    That's a nice looking Show Time for $200. The Big Show looks good too... except for the painted cabinet. These two bingos are a great deal. Hopefully someone will like to add them to their collection of EM's.

    #207 8 years ago
    Quoted from Vic_Camp:

    That's a nice looking Show Time for $200. The Big Show looks good too... except for the painted cabinet. These two bingos are a great deal. Hopefully someone will like to add them to their collection of EM's.

    I don't have the room, but I have been wanting a bingo for a while now. Maybe I will go take a look......

    #208 8 years ago

    Yeah...go take a look and play the game too. If you need some help with the operation of the game let me know. Do you have any knowledge about bingos? The Show Time is a nice turning/moving corner game and beautiful artwork throughout.

    #209 8 years ago

    Not sure if I would still be married if I come home with it, but what the hell....

    #210 8 years ago
    Quoted from dasvis:

    Not sure if I would still be married if I come home with it, but what the hell....

    Tell the Mrs. it is a present for her.......

    #211 8 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Tell the Mrs. it is a present for her.......

    Great idea. I'll have to remember that one.

    #212 8 years ago

    That Showtime is beautiful. I hope you get it dasvis. Great playing game, and I've never seen one in such good condition. Cigarette burns on the lockbar, but other than that looks fantastic!

    2 months later
    #213 8 years ago
    #214 8 years ago

    Link above doesn't show any bingo JR.

    Here's a 1953 United Tropics i recently bagged.
    Tropics 9-17-15 015.JPGTropics 9-17-15 015.JPGTropics 9-17-15 018.JPGTropics 9-17-15 018.JPG

    #215 8 years ago

    I have a question that I hope won't be misinterpreted (I am not knocking bingo pins).
    I understand the bingo games were universally known as a gambling device.
    I have a slot machine, another kind of gambling device. But no bingo pin as of yet.

    With that said...
    I find my slot machine is about the most boring "Exciting looking" device I own because there's no monetary odds. Although I play the Pachislo slot machine once every few months to see what happens... I keep it around only for its "cool" appearance. It's pretty when lit up.
    Pachislo.jpgPachislo.jpg
    I see on the internet how some people literally fill their homes with the slot machines on free (token) play. I just don't get that strong of appeal to own a bunch.

    Are the bingo pins the same way? I am sure that at least a part of the thrill is gone for the lack of the gambling aspect. For the people who own the bingo pins -and- at least one slot machine... Do you find playing a bingo pin is more fun than your slot machine or about equal?

    I think if I were to own a bingo pin (Hope to be in the market to buy one soon) then I think the appeal would be strictly for the EM marvel of engineering and design rather than game play itself.

    Am I wrong? Are they more fun to play rather than a slot machine or other gambling device (Used in a non-gambling atmosphere)?
    Thanks in advance.

    #216 8 years ago

    Hi Steve,
    I'm an owner and tinkerer on both Pachislo machines and mechanical slots. I've never worked on an EM slot, but I've worked on a lot of bingos! I've got 5 bingos currently.

    Bingo pinball playing is radically different from a slot machine. You don't simply pull a handle or push a button and wait to see what happens. You are intimately involved with nudging the game (just enough! Not too much!) to change the path of the ball and land in the number you want.

    A Pachislo is called a 'skill stop' slot machine. There's actually nothing skill-based about it (as far as I know). The computer governs where you stop, based on the amount of money that has passed through since the last jackpot. I may be horribly wrong, in which case someone please correct me, but the ones I've worked on seem this way.

    A mechanical slot on the other hand, will latch the reels at randomized positions and eventually pay out. These are way more fun to play in a home environment (in my opinion) than a skill stop, as you actually have a chance of winning that is not governed by a computer. It is governed by other factors, and is still not super fun to me (again, my opinion).

    A Bingo, on the other other hand, is incredibly fun to play. Each game is completely different, and while there are elements of luck to it, you never feel as though you are out of control if you are appropriately engaged. The game is a thinking person's game - you have to plunge a ball, think a moment, then plunge the next. You vary the strength of your plunge to lead you down one side or the other, the positioning of the posts, the bounciness of the rubber and side springs, and the waxed surface of the playfield all play into the ball travel. So part of the game is knowing how the ball will react in various situations. Then you have all the interesting features and scoring potential:

    On an EM slot, there are typically advancing odds. Also true with a bingo pinball.
    Some games allow you to move numbers or have multiple cards that will allow for wins in more than one at a time (just like regular bingo).
    Some games have doubling, carry over games, or other gimmicks that allow you to extend your playtime off of your investment.
    Then there's the thrill of skillfully executing the maneuver that gets you that 5-in-line win, and hearing the replays rack up.

    I never played them on location (they were long gone before I was born), but I absolutely love the bingos.

    As far as the engineering feats, you're quite right! But the gameplay is also amazing. Give one a chance, learn the game, learn the features and the interplay between each ball and said features, and I think you'll enjoy them as much as I do.

    <shameless plug> I love the games so much that I started a daily (for now) podcast about them. Almost 200 episodes in - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-pinball-podcast-with-an-em-and-bingo-focus-for-amusement-only </shameless plug>

    #217 8 years ago

    Steve,

    I have a Can Can Bingo Magic screen game that I totally restored and I get a lot of fun from playing it. It will be one of the last games to leave. If you like EM's you should have a magic screen bingo game in your collection at least once. I can't compare to a slot but there is a lot more to it than just pulling an arm. Frankly when on location I never made enough money to think it was anything other than a money pit so the pure gambling fun of the day was never there for me, it was playing the game in competition for as long as I could for the money in my pocket. Its the same as pinball with flippers in this regard.

    Like pinball you need to know how to move the ball down the field and how to save it when needed, better be a good nudger though. In my game I still have to pump nickels in and get the odds up, get the features and then you need to play smart, nudge well or well....no replays for you!

    It is a EM engineering marvel and tinkering with it I can also enjoy. How I play is I try to get more than 50 replays (not easy) as a milestone to say I beat the game and I can then stop and play something else.

    So get a bingo and I hope it is a screen game and try it out.

    #218 8 years ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    A Pachislo is called a 'skill stop' slot machine. There's actually nothing skill-based about it (as far as I know). The computer governs where you stop, based on the amount of money that has passed through since the last jackpot. I may be horribly wrong, in which case someone please correct me, but the ones I've worked on seem this way.

    You do have some control over skill stops, but I don't think any control over the ultimate payout. I had a Mr. Do pachislo and when concentrating I could fairly regularly get the first reel to display a symbol then line up two symbols I wanted. There was a perceptible delay on the second reel sometimes as the machine "helped" me line them up if I was close. The third reel just seems computer stopped to get near wins like all slot machines. Not sure on internals, this is just my observations from play.

    I played my semi-broken Dixieland bingo more than my pachi games. Much more fun

    And Steve above, if I do get another bingo in my collection it will for sure be a magic screen EM game. I had a Dixieland modded to be solid state, which it turns out sucks part of the cool factor out of the game. I got a handful of EM games this year and now the the fear is out of my bones, I may be able to tackle a bingo again.

    #219 8 years ago

    DefaultGen:

    Thanks for the info on the skill stops! I figured there was more to those than they seemed. They're pretty simple to work on.

    Dixieland is a fun game - the whir and click of it locking in the magic number is a fun experience - especially when you're on the wrong side of the playfield! The red diagonals make winning a 3-in-line almost a given.

    I like the six card games for their pure speed. They are quick games that let you get into the action without coining and searching for a long time. The perfect lunch break game.

    I like the (older) magic lines games for the added strategy of moving a limited set of numbers a limited number of spaces.

    I like the magic squares games for the rotating numbers and at least in Night Club's case, the double/triple/quadruple scoring.

    I like the magic screen games for their unique scoring opportunities and special gameplay.

    How about games like Sun Valley that let you move every number on the bingo card?

    And I like the mystic lines games for the feeling when you hit all four star zones for 300/600 replays. This is an even bigger rush than the blue section on the magic screen games, but that is probably because I am more familiar with the 25 hole playfield.

    and Steve:
    Most every moving numbers game is pretty doggone fun, and the fixed number games are also challenging and fun - especially when you have something extra to shoot for like a super line. Magic screens are absolutely the most popular games of the bingo universe, and they are great fun. Regardless of the type of game you choose, plan to spend some time with the game learning how to play it.

    Heck I like every one I've ever played or worked on. Maybe I like them too much, haha!

    #220 8 years ago

    Thanks for all the input. I hope to own one someday! !

    #221 8 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    Thanks for all the input. I hope to own one someday! !

    Sounds good Steve!

    You repair and restore the Bingo of your choice and I will come over and play it with you as well as drink all your booze!

    Ken

    #222 8 years ago

    Tried my hand at getting this Gay Time up and running for a customer. Not in a hurry to do another, but it was definitely a challenge.

    IMG_0031.jpgIMG_0031.jpg

    #223 8 years ago

    ***** Very Nice**********
    The cabinet looks in great shape !

    #224 8 years ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    and Steve:
    Most every moving numbers game is pretty doggone fun, and the fixed number games are also challenging and fun - especially when you have something extra to shoot for like a super line. Magic screens are absolutely the most popular games of the bingo universe, and they are great fun. Regardless of the type of game you choose, plan to spend some time with the game learning how to play it.
    Heck I like every one I've ever played or worked on. Maybe I like them too much, haha!

    Nick, You are so right, however I want people to try out bingo's and have a long interesting rewarding experience with them.

    The fixed number games I played a bunch on in my youth seemed to be more a gambling experience. Whether they will keep the interest over time is debatable.

    Finding a working moving line or corner game in the wild is hard enough and trying to get parts is more than difficult and is not recommended by me as your first game.

    As you state the the Magic screens are the most popular games as they are great fun and I recommend one of them as your first game.

    Try one guys.

    #225 8 years ago

    For all you bingo hunters thinking about adding a bingo to your collection....here in NJ for sale are 8 fulling working games. They are listed on MR pinball. Check them out!
    bingos7-4-15 018.JPGbingos7-4-15 018.JPGbingos7-4-15 046.JPGbingos7-4-15 046.JPGbingos7-4-15 051.JPGbingos7-4-15 051.JPGbingos7-4-15 052.JPGbingos7-4-15 052.JPG

    #226 8 years ago

    Man you guys keep talking how fun the bingo games are and I'll start jonesing for one. I'm even trolling the local CL listings even though I have a negative budget for one. Argh! See what happens? I wish one would just "appear" in my lineup.

    #227 8 years ago

    If anyone is interested in some bingo pinball simulation programs for PC:
    http://www.bpbsimulation.com/bpbsimul3.php

    They also run in Linux (Wine).

    #228 8 years ago

    I'm on the hunt again.....

    I just got a lead on a 1951 Bally Bright Lights(first bingo ever produce by Bally)here in NJ. Years ago i bought out Bill Dolls warehouse and two Bright Lights were in the 20+pinball buyout. I sold them both before getting the game working. Looking forward bagging this one. The condition looks real nice too. I love the 6 card games!

    #229 8 years ago

    Vic! I just saw a Bright Lights in NJ that I was going to email you about. Hope you get it. If the same one it did look very nice for 1951!

    #230 8 years ago

    Some bingos, waiting for a new friend.

    IMG_20150924_210407.jpgIMG_20150924_210407.jpg

    #231 8 years ago

    What is your opinion of the ticker tape?
    My local CL has one listed but too expensive at the moment.

    #232 8 years ago

    My daughter and I play that one extensively. It is a fast game, no extra balls to worry about. I can bang out several games in 10-15 minutes easily.

    Your goal on any bingo is to get 3-4 or 5 in a row. This is the thrill of playing for 5 in a row taken to the extreme. Progressive scoring (based on card and number of balls) makes it challenging, and the layout of the cards is precisely engineered to keep you playing 'just one more time'. Once you have a winner or multiple winners, you also get a chance to play for double or nothing, which is very thrilling.

    Fun, fun game. The internals of a six card are also simpler than those of most any other bingo from the 60s or 70s.

    #233 8 years ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Some bingos, waiting for a new friend.

    IMG_20150924_210407.jpg

    Your bingo row looks magnificent!

    Lets see..... a great fast paced 6 card game(ticker tape), top of the line magic screen(bounty), a 20 hole game for a different playfield ball play(double up), one of the best turning corners games(night club) and the top of the line hole hopper(gay time)with magic pockets with moving lines features. Is something missing here? Oh Yeah, that's right I don't se the United Caravan bingo. Wait until that one gets in the line up. Your collection will be sensational!

    Nick,so glad you are enjoying the bingos. Can't wait until the York show when I will witness for the first time a bingo pinball row of machines.....

    #234 8 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    I wish one would just "appear" in my lineup.

    Maybe Santa will bring you one for Christmas?

    I'd like to own a nice bingo pinball someday but it will have to wait until I've moved and settled down permanently.

    Bruce

    #235 8 years ago

    Definitely would like to own a nice bingo at some point, but time is not on my side. Turning 67 in November and now recovering from a heart attack and cardio stint procedure at the beginning of September. Just realized that I live 10 minutes from Mr. Lawton here on Cincy east Side. I would definitely like to meet him some day. He seems like a fascinating Gentlemen.

    #236 8 years ago

    If you haven't heard Jeffrey Lawton on Nick Baldridge podcast "FOR AMUSEMENT ONLY" go to this link below and listen in.

    http://foramusementonly.libsyn.com/

    Afterwards you can contact Nick and get Jeffrey's email to set up an appointment to meet with him.
    Stay well....

    #237 8 years ago

    Thank you Mr. Camp for the well wishes and the information regarding the "For Amusements Only Podcast. I am doing a lot better now, starting some cardio rehab next week and pretty much got a green light from my cardio doctor to go about normal activities. I am finishing up a complete restoration of my Whirlwind, so i plan to start my research into a bingo after that. Just listened to Nick Baldridge's interview with Mr. Lawton. fascinating. Looks like I have a lot of listening and catching up to do, and definitely need to get Mr. Lawton's books. Maybe I can meet him and get his books at same time. I am retired military, so between grand kids, and pinball, I got plenty of time now Ha Ha.. New Jersey, the Garden State, I spent about 6 great months at Fort Dix in the winter of 1968-69 for my initial basic training. Froze my young butt off, eating sand, and getting shaken out of the bunk by the F-4 Phantoms taking off 24/7 from McGuire AFB and rattle the crap out of the barracks. Maybe I can make a roadtrip to NJ some time again.. under much better circumstances..

    #238 8 years ago

    Here's a great place to learn about the bingos, if you already don't know.
    http://bingo.cdyn.com/

    Not sure if you heard about the all the bingos that are going to be at the York Show Oct 9th and 10th 2015.
    Mr Lawton will be leading the way for us bingo collectors and Jeffrey will be giving away some free signed BALLY PINBALL MACHINES books going out to Bingo players at the show that can win some replays on any one of about 10 bingo that will be on display for free play.

    Glad your doing well. It's really great what the medical field can do with the heart these days
    Drop me a line if your ever going to be in NJ.
    GayTime-8-7-15 119.JPGGayTime-8-7-15 119.JPG

    #239 8 years ago

    Wow, that site is an encyclopedia of information on bingos. I just watched a bunch of videos I found on youtube of Mr. Lawton demonstration several different cool bingos a the York show for the past several years. he does a great job on those. He did a night club, sun valley, bikini, roller derby and several others. Amazed at what these machines can do, especially considering the time they were designed and built. Good ole American ingenuity for sure. Bingo is definitely a thinking game. Very nice pictures, those games are beautiful and look like they just came from the factory. Thanks again for the information on the York Show. Definitely going to have plan to get there in future.

    #240 8 years ago

    Hi Chet - glad to hear you're getting into the games!

    I'm sorry to hear of your recent health issues, and hope that you'll be up for next year's York show - there are usually at least two bingos there each year (one of the things that makes it my favorite show).

    This year we are doing something special, as Vic said, and as part of the podcast and just general documentation, I'll be taking lots of photos and uploading, as well as performing the interviews that I am able to do.

    Vic is correct, we will be giving away autographed copies of Jeffrey's books to folks that are able to make a 4 or 5 in a line on any machine! Hopefully York will end with some new smiling bingo players.

    Thank you for listening to the interview - Jeffrey knows these machines inside and out! I've interviewed several folks from the bingo pinball community, including Vic (who, as you can tell, is a super nice guy). In fact, that's a recurring theme in the bingo community - lots of nice folks.

    You're right that these are thinking games. Stop, think, then shoot and nudge. The mechanics are so fascinating to me that at over 200 episodes I still can't shut up about them, haha! Phil's site at bingo.cdyn.com is all you need to get a game up and running (plus a little patience and elbow grease). These games were very well made from the standpoint of reliability and serviceability. Despite their complex innards, they are my favorite machines to work on because they are so friendly to the technician.

    I'm glad to hear that you've received a clean bill of health. Keep it up! I'm looking forward to meeting you next year at York.

    -Nick

    #241 8 years ago

    Thanks Nick for the kind words of encouragement. In the short time that i have been looking into Bingo's I have been impressed with the community of people involved, their willingness to share information and their enthusiasm with is contagious. I started listening to your Podcasts yesterday and I am up to about number 20 already. Fascinating and very informative. Very helpful in understanding the evolution of Bingo games as well as the changing technology and game improvements to lure players. I got alot of catching up to do.. Thanks again.

    2 months later
    #242 8 years ago

    Nick has me seriously considering a bingo post-christmas. What are the market values of these machines? Every once in a while something pops up locally but I have no idea what price is reasonable and what price is crazy.

    I realize this is too general of a question (things like title, condition, are important). For a good condition bingo or a project bingo, what should i be looking for?

    #243 8 years ago

    Hey brandsilence, good to hear! So, depending on your location in the US, and the type of game you want to buy (features), as well as condition and if it is working or not, you can expect to pay anywhere from around $150-$1200 or more, depending on title.

    Some games like Golden Gate, Silver Sails, and Bounty command a higher premium than other games (upper-end of that scale).

    For a good condition bingo, always look for playfield wear, lockdown bar/instruction plate wear, and backglass appearance. Fully working, you want to test the game. Remember that the game will lock you out of certain features after a period of time, and some games will prevent you from using the feature until a specific time. Be sure to read the score/instruction card as they spell it out nicely. Play a few games to ensure you understand how it works.

    For a project:

    Inside, you want to rotate the little fans on the mixer (at the top of the back door, generally), and control unit (bottom middle of backbox), and ensure that the first cam or two rotates. Look for burned wires - not discolored, as you'll find that commonly - but I mean charred wires, and rust.

    A bit of rust on the coin door won't hurt a thing, nor will a bit of rust on the siderails. Most bingos that were operated will have some grease or oil deposits floating around, won't hurt you - of course, the cleaner the better.

    You can also check around for obvious cut out units.

    That's generally what I look for in a project. Well, that and a solid cabinet.

    If you ever have a question, feel free to shoot me a message - I like to think I'm easy to reach and am more than happy to help someone new get a machine and get it going!

    #244 8 years ago

    very helpful. I'm in Chicago. I'll keep my eyes open and hit you up for your thoughts when i get a little more serious.

    #245 8 years ago

    Lets not forget the Futurity twins, Lido and Bikini in the high end mix.

    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Hey brandsilence, good to hear! So, depending on your location in the US, and the type of game you want to buy (features), as well as condition and if it is working or not, you can expect to pay anywhere from around $150-$1200 or more, depending on title.
    Some games like Golden Gate, Silver Sails, and Bounty command a higher premium than other games (upper-end of that scale).
    For a good condition bingo, always look for playfield wear, lockdown bar/instruction plate wear, and backglass appearance. Fully working, you want to test the game. Remember that the game will lock you out of certain features after a period of time, and some games will prevent you from using the feature until a specific time. Be sure to read the score/instruction card as they spell it out nicely. Play a few games to ensure you understand how it works.
    For a project:
    Inside, you want to rotate the little fans on the mixer (at the top of the back door, generally), and control unit (bottom middle of backbox), and ensure that the first cam or two rotates. Look for burned wires - not discolored, as you'll find that commonly - but I mean charred wires, and rust.
    A bit of rust on the coin door won't hurt a thing, nor will a bit of rust on the siderails. Most bingos that were operated will have some grease or oil deposits floating around, won't hurt you - of course, the cleaner the better.
    You can also check around for obvious cut out units.
    That's generally what I look for in a project. Well, that and a solid cabinet.
    If you ever have a question, feel free to shoot me a message - I like to think I'm easy to reach and am more than happy to help someone new get a machine and get it going!

    #246 8 years ago

    Just for the record....7 of the 8 bingos were sold on Nov 7th. Roller Derby is the only one left for sale and is posted on mrpinball at the present time. The two parts games(Gay Time/Beach Club) are in my shed.

    I was so glad that all the bingos went to good homes where they will be played and enjoyed by the new proud owners. Check out the smiles on their faces as they load up the bingos. So glad to finally meet the guys that came from Ohio ,Maryland, PA, and West Virginia all scheduled on the same day. The Van they rented was awesome and could have fit a lot more than 4 bingos in it.

    The day started off at 8am and was all said and done at 6pm.

    Special thanks goes out to my pinball brother JR who without him showing up the big day would have been a lot harder to pull off and lets not forget Jim from Del Music company who also was present.

    BingDeal10-7-15_282.jpgBingDeal10-7-15_282.jpg

    BingDeal10-7-15_291.jpgBingDeal10-7-15_291.jpg

    BingDeal10-7-15_293.jpgBingDeal10-7-15_293.jpg

    BingDeal10-7-15_346.jpgBingDeal10-7-15_346.jpg

    BingDeal10-7-15_343.jpgBingDeal10-7-15_343.jpg

    BingDeal10-7-15_344.jpgBingDeal10-7-15_344.jpg

    1 month later
    #247 8 years ago
    Quoted from Vic_Camp:

    That's a nice looking Show Time for $200. The Big Show looks good too... except for the painted cabinet. These two bingos are a great deal. Hopefully someone will like to add them to their collection of EM's.

    Five months later....
    Finally got some time to go take a at these two Bingos. Show Time & Big Show. Neither worked, both had crappy repainted cabinets & wrong legs. Of the two, the Big Show was probably in the better condition. Any reason I should get one rather than the other?

    #248 8 years ago

    I feel bad I did not post these over the summer, but here is a storage find that was all mine if I wanted it for free. I tried hard, but obviously not hard enough to to give these machines away. Most of them were in really good condition. Not a story I'm ready to share, but they are gone now. Not sure what happened to them. I was able to piece together 4 complete machines. Had a few more heads and playfield stat I could not match up.

    image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

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    #249 8 years ago

    dasvis, Showtime has the Magic Line 'E' which allows you to reposition the bottom row of four numbers, and a different and more helpful (to the player) arrangement of the Magic Squares. I would go with Showtime as it also has the triple-deck scoring (three sets of advancing odds), which will help keep you on your toes and keep you thinking through each ball shot.

    Other than the above, Big Show has a spotted number (automatic before Magic Squares position 'D'), but the advantages of Showtime outweigh the minor advantage - most especially the different arragement of the Squares themselves. Being able to rotate the center number is a giant help.

    Now... how many nickels does it take to light 'D'?

    #250 8 years ago

    Thanks. Ball lift works in both, but big show is in slightly better condition. I think I can pick up Showtime for $150 & Big show for $125....

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