Quoted from Kneissl:The guy can legitimately play. I have some doubt about the cheating claims..
If you have doubts, you don’t understand the claim.
(Topic ID: 214538)
New York, NY
I think many don’t understand the claim...the truth is TG accepted a score submission that should not have been accepted in the first place.
And in this case the real difference is Billy CAN put up those scores. Unlike other cheaters that can’t.
Billy should still be known as the first person to play a perfect game of Pac-Man in a public setting because he did...can’t take deny that.
If Billy used MAME and video was edited in his submission then that was cheating....no question.
Correct....but those guys were not setting home run records like we had never seen before without the steroids....Billy Mitchell can put the score up without cheating....still doesn’t mean he didn’t cheat but not like the steroid era in baseball
Quoted from icust298:If you have doubts, you don’t understand the claim.
Watched a video going through the evidence.. Looks like an open an shut case.
It's just crazy conspiracy theories at this point.. we're trusting whoever that all revisions of the DK PCB work and load the same way.. maybe Billy pissed off the new Twin Galaxies owner. I read somewhere that the original tapes are missing, and what's out there is bogus. lol
Saskatoon, SK
LOL, this is all WWF/E stuff, and it brings about some fun times for pinheads and video-idiots as well. Can't wait for the dirt to come forward, and NO... We/you/us/them will never know the truth.
Quoted from Kneissl:The guy can legitimately play. I have some doubt about the cheating claims..
He needs to prove himself....
From watching "Fistful of quarters...
1.Steve Weibe goes to twin galaxies plays the offical game/Everyone is a witness
2.Billy was supposed to show up but sends a crappy vhs tape!!!???WTF i thought rule #1 record has to be proven at twin galaxies
3.SEEING IS BELIEVING...
Quoted from Kneissl:It's just crazy conspiracy theories at this point.
If you watch closely right at the end on billys tape it has been altered..
Watch "Billy Mitchell takes on Namco engineers at IAAPA show on new pacman arcade party" on YouTube
I have found the proof!!!
Go to 2:10 and you will see for yourself.
If you haven't watched King of Kong do so.
Then watch the last six months of videos about what the fuss is.
It's pretty much GAME OVER so you get to a point where you have a choice. ie Kevin Kulek
Sure he is a good player but definitely not the greatest noncheater of the century.
Looks like he is still going to deny deny deny.
I have a MAME cabinet...maybe I should start working toward beating Billy's high DK MAME score "as seen in the video tape shown in the movie King Of Kong"
London
Quoted from Pickle:Correct....but those guys were not setting home run records like we had never seen before without the steroids....Billy Mitchell can put the score up without cheating....still doesn’t mean he didn’t cheat but not like the steroid era in baseball
When a majority of players in the sport are cheating, is it still “unfair”? In setting his records Bonds did something none of the other cheaters did, and all the big boppers were roiding, and most of the power pitchers as well. Most of the game in fact. It is what it is.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:When a majority of players in the sport are cheating, is it still “unfair”?
It's unfair to every player who _doesn't_ cheat, and then doesn't make the team (or the high score listings) because they're "surpassed" by the cheaters.
Billy needs to put up some big scores on arcade games at SFGE (June 2018) while people are watching him play on a certified legit upright video arcade game.
Does he still have what it takes as player or is he now just a pretender? 
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:When a majority of players in the sport are cheating, is it still “unfair”? In setting his records Bonds did something none of the other cheaters did, and all the big boppers were roiding, and most of the power pitchers as well. Most of the game in fact. It is what it is.
A sport is nothing without integrity and consistency. If anyone can cheat unimpeded, and the logic is that "everyone else does it so what's the big deal?", then there is no standard by which you can measure anyone anymore, it essentially just becomes who has the opportunity and gall to cheat the most.
If, as a spectator, you can't trust what you're seeing, then what investment can you possibly have in what goes on? If you watch a basketball game and at any given point a losing team can just decide to field two extra players, and "that's just fine", then everything that follows is artificial and worthless from a competitiveness standpoint.
Having read most of the claim particulars on the TwinGalaxies forum, the case looks to be clear cut. MAME has behaviours that - being simulated - do not accurately match the real life boards. These behaviours are consistently reproduced on every platform MAME is run. Ipso facto MAME was used to achieve high score(s) which is against the TG rules and clearly against the spirit of the game.
Quoted from Raegor:I think he cheated on that DK tape, and I don't have a problem with them removing the scores in question but a lot of his achievements were done live, especially on Pacman and some other games.
Who is to say those scores weren't done on modded / hacked games? If you are caught cheating, and there seems to be systemic collusion along the way, it is not unreasonable for people to have questions about more than just was uncovered so far.
Quoted from SuperDaveOsbourn:LOL, this is all WWF/E stuff, and it brings about some fun times for pinheads and video-idiots as well. Can't wait for the dirt to come forward, and NO... We/you/us/them will never know the truth.
Hi Frankie (Todd Nathan)!!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/Qk-ZdUT8Q9w
The point of punishment is not to just have a 'ok, scratch that result' - but to inflict consequences BEYOND that one incident. That's why 'he's a good player' really isn't relevant.. his punishment includes barring future results too.
His results weren't just thrown out as inconclusive or invalid, he is being painted a cheater and being punished for it.
Quoted from flynnibus:The point of punishment is not to just have a 'ok, scratch that result' - but to inflict consequences BEYOND that one incident. That's why 'he's a good player' really isn't relevant.. his punishment includes barring future results too.
His results weren't just thrown out as inconclusive or invalid, he is being painted a cheater and being punished for it.
Yea but this penalty is too harsh. He legitimately beat Pacman as one of the first to do it, set high scores on DK and many other games that lasted ~20 years (observed by multiple witnesses) and then yes to maintain the "King of Kong" title he used MAME and lied about it. History can't be deleted...
Compare it to real sports where athletes get caught using steroids or other substances. Olympic athletes do get stripped of their medals that they won on those substances, but they don't get stripped of prior medals that were won legitimately. NFL players are only suspended for a few games...
Quoted from Raegor:Yea but this penalty is too harsh. He legitimately beat Pacman as one of the first to do it, set high scores on DK and many other games that lasted ~20 years (observed by multiple witnesses) and then yes to maintain the "King of Kong" title he used MAME and lied about it. History can't be deleted...
Compare it to real sports where athletes get caught using steroids or other substances. Olympic athletes do get stripped of their medals that they won on those substances, but they don't get stripped of prior medals that were won legitimately. NFL players are only suspended for a few games...
People get barred from future competition all the time. The guy didn't have his past games erased, he is no longer allowed to be ranked by one group. Basically he got kicked out of their club, but that doesn't rewrite history or his past accomplishments. It's actually less severe in that point because his accomplishments weren't just as placing in a competition.. so it really can't be taken away from him... only some may simply refuse to acknowledge it happened.
He can still have accomplishments - they just won't be tracked by twingalaxies. And frankly.. I think that a big 'whatevah...' unless he starts getting barred from live competitions he wants to enter.
I blame twin galaxy as much as I blame Billy for this fiasco.
Who it their right mind would document a world record based on a video of such.
It’s basically asking for some sort of foul play IMO
Not saying what happened was right or fair but it seems there is stupidity on both parts
Funny how they want to take away all his credibility, even of his legit records.
Just saying they are really throwing him under the bus for somthing they contributed to by setting up the rules this way
Quoted from hoby1:I blame twin galaxy as much as I blame Billy for this fiasco.
Who it their right mind would document a world record based on a video of such.
It’s basically asking for some sort of foul play IMO
Video editing wasn't always at the tips of every 9yr old... it used to take significant effort. What other way would you like people to attempt and log these efforts besides live proctors... which can't be everywhere.. and we're talking about tasks that can take many hours to complete.
What you find dumb... is a bit of practicality. Obviously editing is far more advanced, and far far far more accessible today then it was 10, 20, or even 30 years ago.
This was a small grass roots thing... not the NFL.
Quoted from hoby1:I blame twin galaxy as much as I blame Billy for this fiasco.
Who it their right mind would document a world record based on a video of such.
It’s basically asking for some sort of foul play IMO
Not saying what happened was right or fair but it seems there is stupidity on both parts
Funny how they want to take away all his credibility, even of his legit records.
Just saying they are really throwing him under the bus for somthing they contributed to by setting up the rules this way
I disagree. People have to take personal responsibility for their actions. Blaming Twin Galaxy just muddies the waters and spreads blame around so that no one is responsible. This is purely Billy's fault, he decided to cheat, not Twin Galaxy.
Quoted from flynnibus:Video editing wasn't always at the tips of every 9yr old... it used to take significant effort. What other way would you like people to attempt and log these efforts besides live proctors... which can't be everywhere.. and we're talking about tasks that can take many hours to complete.
What you find dumb... is a bit of practicality. Obviously editing is far more advanced, and far far far more accessible today then it was 10, 20, or even 30 years ago.
This was a small grass roots thing... not the NFL.
Never said it was dumb ...... it still does not excuse the fact that with that type of approach it sets up the possibly of fraudulent claims
If you want 100% accuracy all record breaking games should have been played live on select calibrated machines.
Quoted from kevmad:I disagree. People have to take personal responsibility for their actions. Blaming Twin Galaxy just muddies the waters and spreads blame around so that no one is responsible. This is purely Billy's fault, he decided to cheat, not Twin Galaxy.
I don’t think your getting my point I’m not putting blame on twin galaxy for cheating
It’s their policy of honoring world records based on video tape
Not an expert but is there any other forum that would base a world record solely on a video recording.
None that I’m aware of.
Quoted from hoby1:I don’t think your getting my point I’m not putting blame on twin galaxy for cheating
It’s there policy back then of claiming world record based on video
Not an expert but is there an other forum that would base a world record solely on a video recording.
None that I’m aware of.
You must have missed where they evolved from simple polaroids... You're applying today's world to the world of the 80s and wondering why some guy in the back of an arcade and making a simple newsletter wasn't acting like the Olympic Committee. Maybe your projection of what you think twingalaxies is/was is off...
Quoted from CNKay:Is that a nice podcast?
I want a podcaster with a Sam Kinison personality to interview him.
Yes, it's a great podcast. Back when I did awards for retro gaming podcasts, they won my "Podcast of the Year"(POTY) which was painted iPod mounted on an Atari 2600 cartridge. They have plenty of humor in their episodes which makes it fun to listen to. I took them out for breakfast at George Webb on Saturday.
A lot of Billy's scores were "verified" by Todd Rogers, another guy whose scores were pulled for lying about them. Patrick Scott Patterson is a good Twitter follow for this stuff as he quit Twin Galaxies quite a while back over a lot of this stuff. It IS just video games, so it's amazing to see what people will stoop to to stay relevant I guess?
Quoted from TheLaw:I heard the real issue is Twin Galaxys started charging $1 per event and Billy refused to pay it, as it is illegal in Wiconson.
Quoted from s1500:Yes, it's a great podcast.
You may have missed what I was going for.
MV5BMzM4NjY1NDg0NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODEzNDUwNA@@._V1_UX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_ (resized).jpg
All you need to do to understand what TG is about, or the people that have been part of it for decades now is to understand there are trading cards recently available for people and things associated with it, that its the mastermind of someone not dumb or stupid yet prances around in a 'referee' outfit at shows (and maybe in the bathroom), is aged and bald, with folks that claim records that are not by definition (verified, or vilified, and/or otherwise), and is now creating WWE/F drama to bring up interest and play the people so they come to watch, get signatures, or simply marvel at the history that is Video Game Nostalgia. Its what it is, a show, a game, a video game playing out in front of you with players, games to be played, and a paying (in most cases) audience. The real question is, do YOU live with it?
Quoted from TheLaw:Man I Remeber sending in a Polaroid after finishing Pitfall
Quoted from hoby1:Maybe, in the 80s did Guinness post world records based on video tape evidence
Not assigning blame...... I’m saying it does not seem like a reliable way to track and recognize world records
ahhh...the 80's was a great decade!!
Quoted from TheLaw:Man I Remeber sending in a Polaroid after finishing Pitfall
I did too....they never sent me my shirt.....BASTARDS!
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