I've been busy the last months with freewpc working on new rules for Whitewater.

Why whitewater ? Not because the original rules are bad, but just because I wanted to play around with freewpc and Whitewater is the only wpc-89 game I own..

This is a work in progress !!

I've started this topic so other people can test it and give feedback. It's definitely not finished (and am not sure when it'll be..).
Don't take this post as a public release yet - it's more that I am looking for beta testers, feedback on the rules, more help (anyone wants to do graphics ?) ..

I'm looking for positive feedback - what can be done to improve it, what is your opinion of the rules (scoring needs more balancing), specific changes (play a sound or let a flasher flash at a certain time, ..)
Don't tell me it's not finished or doesn't look professional enough - I know that.

I've been busy for about 3 months with this on my own and getting a bit tired of working on it alone. I'd like some feedback.
At this moment I even need a name for the wizard mode (and no, not vacation jackpot) so ideas for that are welcome.
Feedback on the rules are also welcome.. I implemented some rules but things like the wizard/wetwilly can be still changed, these I have hardly tested and played myself. I just finished the stacking of modes but even these things can change (although some changes are not easy)..

The latest build can be found at:
http://www.flippers.be/temp/ww_l5.zip

This version may change every few days, depending on the feedback I get, if I have time to program/test things, ..
and sometimes when I implement something it makes the rom crash.. I will try to always upload a version that I tested and is stable but I can't guarantee anything..

Note it's still very early in development.
- If you want to play with it in visual pinball then please do.
- If you have an eprom burner and want to test it in your machine, you can. I test it also on my machine, I haven't had problems (no burnt coils, ..) but it's at your own risk. Make sure all your switches work as there's no switch compensation implemented.
- If you need to pay someone to burn it on an eprom for you - then please wait a few months until there's a more stable and finished version.

Some things aren't implemented (topper lamps), not even all modes are completely tested, ..

NOTE: the first time you run this, freewpc will ask you to confirm by pressing enter a few times. This works ok in a real machine.
In a visual pinball setup - first time run only vpinmame with setting 'skip startup test' disabled. Then confirm these warning messages.
Then you are able to run it in visual pinball and the rom will start correct.

Overview of the rules :

Bigfoot does not divert the pinball into whirlpool unless wpool is lit for a mode
Hit 2 bigfoot targets to light bigfoot cave and start cave hurryup
Bigfoot cave when lit awards 250k + item : flashlight, key, camera, map at 5, cow at 20
todo? when camera collected - spot bigfoot in different locations

cave hurryup: countdown from 1M to 250K in 10 seconds, shoot cave/wpool to collect

mapmode: started in whirlpool after map is collected in cave
map is shown on display, with bigfoot hiding in a random location
make 5 shots, 3 hazards on lower pf decide path to follow (left, middle, right), try to reach the X in 5 shots
todo: play and test - remove middle shot and start with 2 instead of 3 ?

combos: ramp to rapids and then no way out or disaster drop for 3, or pass to right flipper and repeat ramp to rapids for 4combo
repeating boomerang bend shot
repeating disasterdrop shot 3x awards hazard or 1M
todo? more combos

jet bumper hits increase riverclass (count resets at start of ball)
jet area border switches change to next wpool mode
riverclass = bonus multiplier and score of bumpers

no way out locks balls - hit green targets first (increases with nr of mb played), lock 3 balls for multiball
multiball: 3 ball mb, hit upper main ramp for jackpot, hit at beginning for double/triple jackpot, hit bigfoot targets to light bigfoot for jackpot

lostmine: starts goldrush when key is awarded from cave and minimum 2 lostmine entries, then restarts every 3 lostmine entries, else starts boulder bash
goldrush: 2ball mb frenzy, everything 25K, shoot moving lit lamp for 1M
boulder bash: timed mode, 20 seconds, jet score extra 250K+50Kxtimes bash started

multimillion: left ramp shot, repeat within 5 seconds, 1M and increases up to 5M per shot

red targets: any red tgt hit will light next unlit tgt
hitting red target advances wpool mode
complete 3 to relight kickback, when kb already lit then score 250k

skillshot:
-falls ramp scores 1M X nr skillshot made, and each shot during game will score 50K * skillshot
-bigfoot ramp scores 1M X nr skillshot made, and each shot during game will score 50K * skillshot + light cave
-let go to right inlane and shoot no way out to start quickmb
quick mb: 2 ball mb, every hazard scores 10K first, shoot all hazards for score multiplier, until 100K per shot max

rafts: increase rafts by shooting lit hazards, until wetwilly is reached
shoot only lit hazards (except nowayout) to score a perfect path (triple raft score) and spot bigfoot
secret passage counts as perfect shot
make 2 perfect rafts to light dam mode
river hurryup starts when raft increases (from hazard - not from secret pass or wpool)

river hurryup: 10 seconds, shoot lit river targets, one letter dims every 2 sec
value increases from 250K to 1M

dam mode: start at wpool, hit 5 river targets in time to break dam, 3 sec ballsaver at start
each lit rivertarget scores 250K, 1M when completed in time

wetwilly: starts as timed mode: for each raft (8 shots) shoot random lit hazard in time, when all done then every hz lit for jackpot
* 20 seconds at start 5 seconds added per shot made

flipper buttons move lit inlane l/r
lit inlanes add a river letter
river targets: complete letters to light wpool

shoot lit whirlpool to start whirlpool mode:
-wpool challenge: 2 ball mb, shoot wpool for jackpot increasing from 1 until 10 mill
hit bigft tgts to score a double jp

-5xfun:
v1: 30 seconds score*5, can be stacked
v2: 2ball mb - every hz starts at 1mil, increases with each shot until 5m max for each shot

-man overboard: shoot one specific hazard in time. when flashlight found then hz is lit, else everything is dark but audio cues (left/right) and only lower pf hz

-mystery: starts waterfall mode
TODO add other random modes/points ? start dam mode ?

-extra ball

wizard mode: complete wet willy, class 6, finish wpool, play mapmode, lock 3 balls => wizardmode (TODO new name and not vacation !)
starts with 8 levels to do:
1- wake up bigfoot : shoot 2 white tgts
2- visit cave
3- 2x disdrop
4- 20 bumper hits
5- complete red tgts
6- 2 spine chillers in time (=mmil)
7- spine chill to wpool
8- 2x no way out to rapids
once finished:
3 ball mb, (everything scores 20K, hazards 1M TODO)

Stacking:
- jets /riverclass increase always
- redtgt always enable kickback
- rivertgt hits count during river hurryup and dam mode (but don't light lamp)
- can't lock balls (start mball/quickmb/wetwilly) when a multiball is running
- wpool award / dam / map : only in raftmode, not in wpchall, not in multiball
- hazards/rafts continue during wpool challenge, multiball

- no stacking during:
- quickmb
- wp manoverb
- dam
- goldrush
- waterfall
- wp5x2
- wetwilly
- wizard

Didn't have any time to continue working, just started a new job.
I'll probably continue in a month or two..
But no one contacted me to help testing / give feedback so if I need to do it all myself it'll take a long time..

No.. changed jobs, got married, had a baby, moved into a new house and am still unpacking (haven't played WW or any of my other machines in 6 months).
Maybe next year I'll have time to pick up this project and finish the code.

I was able last week to compile my code from last year again.. so may start again on this project
Updated the link in the first post here. If people want to test in visual pinball then let me know..

I haven't worked on this in 3 years so it's still a baby :p

And this is the kind of feedback I want. This is the first time someone gave so much feedback and I appreciate it a lot.

My first rules were started as 'what can I do with this and change so it's not the original ruleset', but without a complete goal in mind.
After a few weeks of programming it was implemented and I can play things. Now I see how gameplay and strategy changed.
What I have noce is not all consistent or complete, and therefor I like the feedback.

Hi,

Thanks for all your feedback, I really appreciate it. This is exactly what I want, some other ideas and opinion.

First some general answer to your remarks:
While you say some features in WW are good and want to leave them, my goal was to change the rules. Not just have a 95% copy of how WW plays with only some small changes. That wouldn't be worth all the hours of work. I wanted to see what I could do with this layout.

The 'problem' is that WW's rules are already good. And I'm bound by the playfield layout and inserts, and by the available sounds.
In the cactus canyon rom there are a lot of unused sounds, but in most other games all sounds available are used somewhere in the existing rules.
That limits the creativity. I first thought of having different modes each time you complete a raft, but ideally then you need different music to play.
So this changed into the river hurryup after each raft.
The samples 'here's a map', 'here's a key', 'this door is locked' are available, so it would be dumb not to implement them somewhere and make a mode to use them.

The code and rules grew organically - first simple things like multimillion and bigfoot targets, and then things got added and added when I had an idea or wanted to try if something worked well or not.
The made the code is a bit a mess (not always clear or easy to check what things can run together). Now I'm at a point that I should take the time to re-write a part of what rules get triggered when and have a clear goal of what all the rules are.

> I like the idea of hitting the bigfoot targets to collect each item. When you collect the three items or, if that's not possible, just the Camera after six hits a new "Bigfoot Hunt" mode will start.

To collect an item you need to shoot the bigfoot targets and get the hurryup in bigfoots cave.
I could ditch the hurryup. You need to hit the bigfoot targets enough (first 2 times, then 3, ..) and then just shoot the cave during gameplay to collect an item.
Problem is, ideally then you have a flashing insert to indicate something is available in the cave. I can work around that and when you qualify the bigfoot targets, it shows on the dmd a message to pick up something in the cave and flash the cave flasher.

> In the mode you are trying to take a picture of bigfoot at the hazard locations. I would start with a single hazard arrow flashing. Every few seconds the insert flashes very quickly, signaling that bigfoot is about to move. Then the next insert starts flashing. If a player successfully shoots a flashing insert he collects the photograph and the corresponding insert remains lit for the remainder of the mode or subsequent playthroughs. The mode would be timed, so that near perfect shooting would allow the player to collect all of the photographs, but most players will require multiple playthroughs of the mode to collect all of the pictures. Pending testing, each subsequent playthough could require more shots to the bigfoot target to collect each item.

That's about what I had first in mind. The global goal of the game is not to advance rafts but to search bigfoot - and take pictures (once you've collected the camera somehow). For each raft insert you could keep track if the player found bigfoot. Problem here is you need to collect the camera first somehow (so you would probably not get it on raft 2 and 4).. so this got changed into the perfect raft idea.

But I really want to get that idea of finding bigfoot more prominent in the rules.
I thought of showing him random on the dmd and start a hurryup but then you need either a specific camera target (could be the bigfoot targets) or indeed have the player shoot the correct hazard.

Quick mb was dropped as it makes the skillshot too easy.

> I prefer hurry-ups to start when a ball is fed cleanly back to a flipper. I'm not sure it's as clean to start it after hitting the hot foot target.
> I think there may be better ways to implement additional hurry-ups in some of your other modes.

I agree but there are not really many options to lock a ball in WW (only central lock) or return it clean to a flipper (upper playfield).
Having to shoot the lock to start a hurryup doesn't work well with other rules.
Having the bigfoot hideout as goal to shoot when the ball just came off the upper playfield also looks like you have to make the same shot again (shoot upper playfield).

I did change the timing as now it indeed starts suddenly - now it's 30 seconds in total, first 10 at 1 mil, then 10 seconds countdown, and then 10 seconds at lowest value.

> With the first change the combo potential in the game are insane.

Combos now were just an afterthought, I've added something just to have them..

> Pending what you decide with the Gold Rush,

I really like my gold rush mode
It is't explained but it uses all the targets so it's like a square, a few are lit and rotate along with the music and you have to hit the lit target to score.
It's a bit like an amusement park skillgame.

> Advancing down the river should be a main focus of the game.

No, that was in the original WW rules and it still is in mine but I want to make it about finding bigfoot.

> Is this just for your Dam Mode or is this how you light the Whirlpool for all modes.

to light all modes.

> The insert is labeled "x5 Playfield" the rules should increase the playfield value x5.

Well that's what I really want to change. In WW now the only strategy to score high is to get 5x together with multiball and get 100mil jackpots.
That 's too unbalanced. I haven't implemented a 100 mil shot now and feel like only keeping that if you get the wizard mode.
Now you need to use the whole playfield more and scoring is balanced.
Thats also why I like that you have to shoot the popbumpers more in my rules. In WW you can mostly ignore the pops.

> I'm personally not a huge fan of modes that are pure luck, like guess the random shot.

Man overboard when you haven't found the flashlight is not really pure luck. It's on of the 4 hazards on the lower playfield and bigfoot will also rotate his head in the direction of what shot it needs to be.

Hi,

No sorry I can't help you.
I tested it in my own machine years ago when I started this project, to verify all coils were working and had the correct strength.
Haven't tested it since in a real machine.
The first time you install a freewpc rom it'll reset everything and give a warning message that it's all on your own risk, you have to confirm it twice with the enter button. After doing this once, the next time it'll boot up without warning message.

I don't know much about the freewpc kernel and what causes problems.
I'm even not sure against what version the rom on my website is compiled now - it can be my fork (which is a mix that I made of Brians last code and changes that James C made for his Demolition Man rom), but it can also be the master or 1.0 branch, as I've tested them all to check if it solved a bug..

A few months ago I tried to continue working on this - set up the development environment on my new computer, visual pinball, ..
The rom has a bug - it often crashes but semi-random. It's either when a ball is locked (can be 1st, 2nd or 3rd) or sometimes when a ball drains.
Problem is that I'm not sure what causes this - it can be somewhere in my code but it can also be that the freewpc code for locks/devices isn't stable.
I've spent a few days testing but didn't find a solution and have given up.

I don't have time (or the knowledge) to continue working on this. And as no-one else is busy with freewpc I think we can say that freewpc is a dead project..

Finally recompiled (and replaced the zip online), it seems to work fine in visual pinball, will try it later in my own machine.