(Topic ID: 307348)

Big time trough switch 8 weirdness

By alb0711

2 years ago



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  • 3 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by alb0711
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

I'm on a multi year journey restoring my Big Time and I've gotten stuck. I'm having an issue that appeared to come out of nowhere with game start either not lifting a ball or sometimes lifting a ball but then not closing the shutter when first ball is shot.

I suspected something might be going on with the ball trough switches. All tested good except the ball 8 switch which is supposed to be closed when a ball is resting on it and open when no ball is on it. The switch always tested as closed even when it is physically wide open. I thought maybe I had a short in the switch or wires from the switch. I finally traced up to the jones plug into the head that this switch is attached to. I pulled the jones plug and the switch is now measuring as open when its open and closed when it is closed. I next tested the circuit from the female end of the jones plug to see if there might be a short somewhere further upstream, but everything tests fine when the jones plug is disconnected.

Looking at the schematic I think there is a parallel circuit passing through the timer that might be the reason the switch always tests closed which makes no sense at all.

Do I have some kind of short somewhere in the circuit or am I just chasing a dead end?

Any help is appreciated!
Allen

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#2 2 years ago

when the timer unit is reset AND the extra ball trip relay is untripped, the only way to turn on the ball lift motor is via trough switch #8

when checking trough 8, make sure the timer unit and EB trip relays are reset. Also, use a ball to depress the rollover, not your finger since your finger may push the rollover down more than the ball can.

measuring a switch with a continuity test is not reliable. It will find opens, but things that look closed may still not work. Measuring the actual resistance using the ohms function is better as you can see the difference between almost zero ohms (good) and 2+ ohms (bad) ... but rarely it still won't work because the connection can pass small amounts of current, but not larger amounts.

the ideal ways to test the circuit is either using a jumper wire to bypass stuff or a voltmeter. In the voltmeter case, you want to poke around in a closed circuit when the motor should be running but isn't. One meter probe on wire 70, the other poking around in the circuit looking for where the voltage drops way below 50VAC.

tmi
----

the purpose of trough switch #8 was to deal with the clever people who figured out that if you:
1] reset the game
2] shot a ball partway up the runway
3] pushed the manual lift button to raise another ball
4] repeat until four balls are in the runway
5] reset and cycle game to increase scores/features
6] shoot all the balls ... the game thinks you only shot one and you wind up with all 8 balls for the cost of the initial coin to reset the game

bally's solution was to not allow the timer unit to step up until all 8 balls were in the trough ... that's why if you reset with ball(s) in front of the shooter it/they will fall thru the playfield when shot and the next ball will close the shutter.

to make this work, they added trough switch 8 to detect all balls being in the trough.

#3 2 years ago

Thank you very much! I’ve been working through my issue. I’m guessing the closed switch I’m seeing when it is actually open using just a continuity test is what I’ve heard called a long circuit? Love the engineering history of this stuff. If a game that gives you money has an exploit someone will find it!

I’m out of town for a few weeks soaking up some sun. I’ll get back to old big time when I get home. You’ve given me a lot of ideas. From now on the voltmeter will do the testing !

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